If you want to build your product on a microcontroller you can actually buy in 2022, RP2040 is your friend. Head on over to Raspberry Pi Direct to get yours today.
Yes, I saw that.
presumably the reason they're not in shortage is that nobody (other than the RPi people themselves) has yet designed them in to a product that's manufacturing in volume ... ?
If you want to build your product on a microcontroller you can actually buy in 2022, RP2040 is your friend. Head on over to Raspberry Pi Direct to get yours today.
I think it's probably old stock before the pandemic that they are clearing out.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
If you want to build your product on a microcontroller you can actually buy in 2022, RP2040 is your friend. Head on over to Raspberry Pi Direct to get yours today.
Yes, I saw that.
presumably the reason they're not in shortage is that nobody (other than the RPi people themselves) has yet designed them in to a product that's manufacturing in volume ... ?
You may be partly right.
They did say
Since then, we’ve sold nearly 1.5 million Picos, and thousands of you have used RP2040 in your own electronic projects and products.
so their own consumption is significant.
Then they say
We have sufficient wafer stock on hand to produce 20 million chips, with more on the way.
So their pipelines must be looking quite good, if they already have 'more on the way' :)
These parts do need a FLASH boot memory, which the Pi Press chest-puffing neatly avoids mentioning.
There are certainly a bunch of "second tier" hobbyist manufacturers using a lot of RP2040s. Looks like Adafruit has a half-dozen different board variants (not counting ones that they just resell.) Sparkfun has three. Perhaps being closer to the top of the of the "desirable customer" list feels good...
I don't know if RPi has the "incidental corporate features" in place to support a large-scale manufacturer...
I don't know if RPi has the "incidental corporate features" in place to support a large-scale manufacturer...
I had an exchange with Eben Upton on Twitter and have watched some YouTube where he featured. Seems a very switched on kind of a guy with a clear vision for how they want to grow Raspberry. I wouldn't have any concerns about their longevity or ability to scale manufacture.
Personally I see RP2040 as some what of a revelation (esp from the cost perspective!). Interesting to read the datasheet and find out why it is "2040". The implication seems to be there's going to be a number of different models in the future.
There is no code protection feature on RP2040, no lock bits etc. The chip expects to execute code directly from external flash. Anyone can tap in and read what data is transferring.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
... The implication seems to be there's going to be a number of different models in the future.
Better not... maybe. I'm thinking lately at this: RP2040 is one variant, 20 million chips availability. STM32 is 3000+ variants, availability is... (it's hard to even define the availability of it).
If you design a new board, what do you chose now: "The" RP2040 or one of the 3000+ STM32 chip variants? The same for Microchip products, AVRxxx, PICxxx, SAMxxx, etc. Uncountable.
I have a board with an avr PB chip (atmega88pb). According to the Microchip direct, we'll talk about it after february 2023...
Posted by gchapman: Mon. Apr 11, 2022 - 04:59 PM(Reply to #65)
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ron_sutherland wrote:
I am reasonably sure that is due to the multitasking OS (I suspect all of them are like that), the R-Pi hardware (aside from its bugs) is much faster when done as bare-metal software (right?).
I like the idea of micro-python;
Ada is another computer language that provides tasking; Ada and Python can be bare-metal (no OS) though RTOS can aid both.
Ada tasks on multiprocessor runtimes can be configured to run on either
core0 or core1 using the CPU attribute. For example:
.. code-block:: ada
task Core0_Task with CPU = 1;
task Core1_Task with CPU = 2;
...
For multiprocessor runtimes the TIMER peripheral is used which runs
at the Watchdog tick frequency (always 1 MHz).
...
For example, to configure an interrupt handler to run on the second CPU
in the multiprocessor runtime:
...
[near bottom]
Resources Used
--------------
The runtime libraries provide a minimal version of package Ada.Text_IO
supporting character- and string-based input and output routines. These are
implemented using semihosting, which requires a debugger to be attached.
Calling the semihosted Text_IO routines without a debugger attached will
trigger a HardFault on the processor that uses it.
Multiprocessor Runtimes
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The Ravenscar runtime libraries on the multiprocessor runtime configuration
use the TIMER ALARM_3 interrupt to implement Ada semantics for time, i.e.
delay statements and package Ada.Real_Time. The ALARM_3 interrupt handler
runs at the highest priority. This implementation uses a tick-less approach
to configure the alarm interrupt to trigger exactly at the alarm time,
thereby avoiding most "useless" tick interrupts. See procedure Set_Alarm in
package body System.BB.Board_Support (gnarl/s-bbbosu.adb).
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
I've lost track. Is #120 about the Raspberry Pico board, subject of this thread? As the RPi website shows it has TWO MEGABYTES of flash. Surely that's enough for most apps?
This is what's so extraordinary about RP2040. It's a $1.00 micro but it has two 133MHz 32bit cores, 2048KB flash, 264KB RAM and what's more you can actually buy the things!
Posted by GermanFranz: Sun. Apr 17, 2022 - 06:02 AM
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clawson wrote:
This is what's so extraordinary about RP2040. It's a $1.00 micro but it has two 133MHz 32bit cores, 2048KB flash, 264KB RAM and what's more you can actually buy the things!
Of course, you should be able to master and use and exploir that hardware power. Impressing is not enough. With the additional price of a weaker AVR I pay less mental effort afterwards. With its many variants I solve many tasks much more simply and precisely, on a smaller area and with numerous advantageous details (for example 5V capability, robustness in general, more resilient outputs and much more).
You can't compare with the $1 chip alone, which is unwieldy for hobbyists. If then equipped on a $4 pico board... An AVR or PIC is available in a handy small DIP housing, interchangeable in a little IC socket.
Posted by Brian Fairchild: Mon. Apr 18, 2022 - 10:43 AM
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clawson wrote:
This is what's so extraordinary about RP2040. It's a $1.00 micro but it has two 133MHz 32bit cores, 2048KB flash, 264KB RAM and what's more you can actually buy the things!
You're forgetting the...
* inter-processor FIFOs
* inter-processor SPINLOCKs
* per-processor Hardware Dividers
* TWO interpolators per processor
...
For the money of both the chip and the PICO PCB this chip is pretty insane.
And some of the best documentation you'll ever see. And cross-platform development.
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
I may have gone a bit OTT when deciding what to buy to evaluate the RP2040/Pico.
They certainly seem to prefer that you do development on a "big" RPi. One of the major complaints from (rp2040) users is the difficulty of putting together a development environment on a windows system, and the RPi folk have admitted "we don't actually have any windows developers."
Posted by Brian Fairchild: Thu. Apr 21, 2022 - 07:38 PM
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westfw wrote:
I may have gone a bit OTT when deciding what to buy to evaluate the RP2040/Pico.
They certainly seem to prefer that you do development on a "big" RPi. One of the major complaints from (rp2040) users is the difficulty of putting together a development environment on a windows system, and the RPi folk have admitted "we don't actually have any windows developers."
That's what the Pi 4B is for. I plan on setting it up headless and just VNC into it.
The pi400 was a 'why not' purchase. It's stupidly cheap for a fully working computer that'll fit into a satchell.
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
Windows users are left out in the cold (mostly because there are no easy package managers or build systems that come pre-packaged with Windows).
Section 9.2 in the Getting Started guide shows you how to install the build system on Windows. However, I have two issues with the steps outlined there: 1) Build Tools for Visual Studio is 6 GB, and 2) you have to start VS Code from the Developer Command Prompt every time.
If you would like to avoid 1) and 2), I recommend following my guide here to install the build tools using MinGW instead.
An Ada compiler very typically is configured also with C (reasons : functional C for drivers and such, package Interfaces.C)
So, RP2040 Ada BSP with an excellent zero price Ada IDE (transparency : operated the precursor, and, AdaCore has excellent support though at a substantial price)
the difficulty of putting together a development environment on a windows system,
RP2040 on Windows at zero price? (Visual Studio Code)
Not impossible. Just "difficult." As I understand it, you need to build some of the tools from source, which means installing (by default?) one of the Microsoft Visual Studio Community editions (not "VS code".)
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
Yes, I saw that.
presumably the reason they're not in shortage is that nobody (other than the RPi people themselves) has yet designed them in to a product that's manufacturing in volume ... ?
Top Tips:
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TopI think it's probably old stock before the pandemic that they are clearing out.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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TopIt was only launched in January last year (see OP) - so hardly "old stock"!
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TopYou may be partly right.
They did say
Since then, we’ve sold nearly 1.5 million Picos, and thousands of you have used RP2040 in your own electronic projects and products.
so their own consumption is significant.
Then they say
We have sufficient wafer stock on hand to produce 20 million chips, with more on the way.
So their pipelines must be looking quite good, if they already have 'more on the way' :)
These parts do need a FLASH boot memory, which the Pi Press chest-puffing neatly avoids mentioning.
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TopMost VORAGO Technologies arm Cortex-M lack non-volatile memory due to the use cases (geophysical, deep space)
arm Microcontrollers | VORAGO Products — VORAGO Technologies (usually boots from SPI ROM)
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopThere are certainly a bunch of "second tier" hobbyist manufacturers using a lot of RP2040s. Looks like Adafruit has a half-dozen different board variants (not counting ones that they just resell.) Sparkfun has three. Perhaps being closer to the top of the of the "desirable customer" list feels good...
I don't know if RPi has the "incidental corporate features" in place to support a large-scale manufacturer...
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopPersonally I see RP2040 as some what of a revelation (esp from the cost perspective!). Interesting to read the datasheet and find out why it is "2040". The implication seems to be there's going to be a number of different models in the future.
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Topand it's not just for boot - the entire code storage is external.
It's Execute In Place (XIP).
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TopThere is no code protection feature on RP2040, no lock bits etc. The chip expects to execute code directly from external flash. Anyone can tap in and read what data is transferring.
“Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?” - Brian W. Kernighan
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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TopIn lieu of code protection, data protection (protect the customer's data)
Can encrypt applications then decrypt into program RAM; RP2040 has an MPU to partition the RAM.
Enhance system security with better data-at-rest encryption - Embedded.com
CryptoAuthentication™ Secure Key Storage | Microchip Technology
GitHub - MicrochipTech/cryptoauth_usecase_secureboot: SecureBoot Usecase
cryptoauthlib/third_party at main · MicrochipTech/cryptoauthlib · GitHub
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIf you design a new board, what do you chose now: "The" RP2040 or one of the 3000+ STM32 chip variants? The same for Microchip products, AVRxxx, PICxxx, SAMxxx, etc. Uncountable.
I have a board with an avr PB chip (atmega88pb). According to the Microchip direct, we'll talk about it after february 2023...
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TopMayJune this year through earlyJulyAugust though in some packages.Lead Time | World's Largest Inventory of Microchip Products
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopIntroduction to ARM Semihosting | Interrupt (Memfault)
selling like hotcakes (pancakes)
lead time is only 15 weeks
RP2040 Microcontroller Chip - Raspberry Pi | Mouser
edit :
Ada on ARM Cortex | AVR Freaks
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopMicromite has been ported to the Pico. Not a compiled BASIC but a well regarded interpreter.
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
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TopPico is quite a different thing to an RPi. There is both Circuit Python and Micro Python for Pico
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TopRP2040 Stamp | Solder Party
if don't want to solder castellations then FlexyPin | Solder Party
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopReally interesting.
Why not include some flash on the nano board? if the target is embedded systems…. the code needs to be somewhere.
regards
Greg
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TopI'm not sure I understand the point.
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
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TopI've lost track. Is #120 about the Raspberry Pico board, subject of this thread? As the RPi website shows it has TWO MEGABYTES of flash. Surely that's enough for most apps?
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TopI'm reading the RP2040 datasheet, this MCU really is interesting, and the datasheet is written in a didactic style which I like, very clear.
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TopMy comment above… indeed the pico… and I missed the flash. Apologies all.
regards
Greg
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TopThis is what's so extraordinary about RP2040. It's a $1.00 micro but it has two 133MHz 32bit cores, 2048KB flash, 264KB RAM and what's more you can actually buy the things!
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Topie nobody wants it......
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
https://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Top"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopOf course, you should be able to master and use and exploir that hardware power. Impressing is not enough. With the additional price of a weaker AVR I pay less mental effort afterwards. With its many variants I solve many tasks much more simply and precisely, on a smaller area and with numerous advantageous details (for example 5V capability, robustness in general, more resilient outputs and much more).
You can't compare with the $1 chip alone, which is unwieldy for hobbyists. If then equipped on a $4 pico board... An AVR or PIC is available in a handy small DIP housing, interchangeable in a little IC socket.
- Log in or register to post comments
Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopYou're forgetting the...
* inter-processor FIFOs
* inter-processor SPINLOCKs
* per-processor Hardware Dividers
* TWO interpolators per processor
...
For the money of both the chip and the PICO PCB this chip is pretty insane.
And some of the best documentation you'll ever see. And cross-platform development.
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
- Log in or register to post comments
Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopI may have gone a bit OTT when deciding what to buy to evaluate the RP2040/Pico.
That's not a keyboards, it's a Pi400.
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
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TopI had my eye on the pi400 but I'm waiting for one with a lot more ram :)
Neil
Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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TopThey certainly seem to prefer that you do development on a "big" RPi. One of the major complaints from (rp2040) users is the difficulty of putting together a development environment on a windows system, and the RPi folk have admitted "we don't actually have any windows developers."
- Log in or register to post comments
TopThat's what the Pi 4B is for. I plan on setting it up headless and just VNC into it.
The pi400 was a 'why not' purchase. It's stupidly cheap for a fully working computer that'll fit into a satchell.
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
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TopAt a relatively low price is VisualGDB.
Visual Studio Embedded will likely be along in a reasonable time duration.
Setting up the Raspberry Pi Pico for C/C++ Development on Windows by V. Hunter Adams (Cornell University, Electrical and Computer Engineering)
rp2040 – VisualGDB Tutorials
Visual Studio Embedded | AVR Freaks
Windows Package Manager | Microsoft Docs
Some MCU toolchains are on MinGW.
An Ada compiler very typically is configured also with C (reasons : functional C for drivers and such, package Interfaces.C)
So, RP2040 Ada BSP with an excellent zero price Ada IDE (transparency : operated the precursor, and, AdaCore has excellent support though at a substantial price)
Raspberry Pi is now a microcontroller | Page 3 | AVR Freaks
Interfacing with C | Low Level Programming — learn.adacore.com (approx 3/4 page)
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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Topedit :
Compare MDK Editions (Arm)
edit2 :
KEIL Community Edition | AVR Freaks
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopNot impossible. Just "difficult." As I understand it, you need to build some of the tools from source, which means installing (by default?) one of the Microsoft Visual Studio Community editions (not "VS code".)
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TopAlso available...
Pico in the Arduino IDE... https://www.tomshardware.com/how...
PlatformIO... https://docs.platformio.org/en/l...
#1 Hardware Problem? https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
#2 Hardware Problem? Read AVR042.
#3 All grounds are not created equal
#4 Have you proved your chip is running at xxMHz?
#5 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand."
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Topwww.tokopedia.com/madagang .Buy and Donated cheap electronics and manuscripts.
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TopWIZnet; ETA 22-Jun'22 with a 7 week lead time.
Ethernet :
W5500-EVB-Pico Evaluation Board - WIZnet | Mouser
Wi-Fi :
WizFi360-EVB-Pico Evaluation Board - WIZnet | Mouser
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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TopETA 8-Jun'22
"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller
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