Software for CPLD design?

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Rooney
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Posted by Rooney: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 01:59 PM
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I would like to become familiar with CPLD's such as the ATF15xxAS.  I've done some research but am still unsure what the technique is for designing the desired logic and outputting a file which I presume I would then use with my EPROM programmer?  Is that how it would go?  Would it be a JEDEC file such as with GAL's?  Really though I can't figure out what software to use.  It looks like MicroChip's ProChip Designer might be it but I haven't received a response to my license request from a couple weeks ago (I'm not faulting them given the current situation).  At this point I figured perhaps I should stop and ask the community for advice.  Basically I have three basic logic IC's and a GAL that I would like to try to consolidate into one chip.  This is hobby stuff in case that's relevant.

 

Thank you.

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Learning and Information, General Electronics, CrossOver, CodeWeavers, Wine, WinCUPL, Hyper-V, Windows 10, Windows XP
Last Edited: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:01 PM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:12 PM
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Usually, manufacturers provide tooling for their own chips.

 

For starting out, I would certainly recommend that you start with the manufacturer's own tooling.

 

Once you've gained experience, you will be in a position to judge whether 3rd-party tooling might work for you - and, if it is, you'll have the experience necessary to set it all up.

 

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Gold Markclawson
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Posted by clawson: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:17 PM
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A quick Google leads to:

 

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/doc3300.pdf

 

in that it mentions:

 

 Atmel PLD Software CD-ROM (includes ProChip Designer™, Atmel-WinCUPL™ and other EPLD software)

 

So it looks like it is "ProChip Designer" and/or "Atmel-WinCUPL" that they suggest you use. Googling for those things brings one right back to microchip.com:

 

https://www.microchip.com/design-centers/fpgas-and-plds/splds-cplds/pld-design-resources

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Kartman
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Posted by Kartman: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:28 PM
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Here’s some info that might be relevant:
http://avitech.com.au/?page_id=3195

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:54 PM
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Rooney wrote:
I would like to become familiar with CPLD's such as the ATF15xxAS.

 

Atmel WinCUPL is what I used for teh ATF15xx stuff I did.

 

Only problem is programmers.  The last one I used was a kludge circuit I found on the 'net that plugged into a parallel port. 

 

 

If you have trouble getting WinCUPL I can put the program on a Dropbox for you to download.  It's too big compressed to post here.

I see it's on the Mchip Site.

 

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

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Last Edited: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 02:55 PM
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Rooney
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Posted by Rooney: Tue. Apr 7, 2020 - 03:12 PM
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clawson wrote:

...So it looks like it is "ProChip Designer" and/or "Atmel-WinCUPL" that they suggest you use. Googling for those things brings one right back to microchip.com...

 

Thanks Clawson, that's pretty much what I found.  I haven't been successful at obtaining a ProChip license but I did download WinCUPL a while back.  It looks quite antiquated but then again I guess CPLD's are too.  I was asking in case I was missing some key piece of information or some awesome software but I guess I was on the right track.  Thanks again.

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ki0bk
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Posted by ki0bk: Wed. Apr 8, 2020 - 01:09 PM
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Rooney wrote:
Basically I have three basic logic IC's and a GAL

I had a GAL once, blond hair blue eyes, but now all I have are some old 7400 chips!  devil

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Wed. Apr 8, 2020 - 01:23 PM (Reply to #7)
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laugh

 

I had some PALs once - but now I'm locked in & all alone ...

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Wed. Apr 8, 2020 - 03:42 PM
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Rooney wrote:
I have three basic logic IC's and a GAL that I would like to try to consolidate into one chip. 

 

Just for the sake of curiosity(and a little past experience), what do the three logic IC's and the GAL do?  I was going to use a few ATF1504's in a cable harness tester, but changed over to a pair of 2560's and it was far simpler to do.

 

Keep in mind that there are AVR's(xTINY), and the XMEGA series that have custom logic blocks in them.  Might be worth exploring some other options.

 

If you can find a USB programmer for the ATF15xx parts let me know!  I have a stock of them here I would use just for teh heck of it.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

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Kartman
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Posted by Kartman: Thu. Apr 9, 2020 - 01:00 AM (Reply to #6)
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Did you check out the link I posted  in #4? You can use older Altera tools with verilog which might make the task a little easier.

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Thu. Apr 9, 2020 - 02:36 AM
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Kartman wrote:
You can use older Altera tools with verilog which might make the task a little easier.

I have an Altera ByteBlaster sitting on teh Museum shelf that I could dust off.

 

I like WinCUPL though as Quartus is a beast,  I'll read that tech note a little more on the ISP stuff.  Thanks!

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Rooney
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Posted by Rooney: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 05:50 PM
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I'm finally getting down to this.  I had to order some other PCB's so I also whipped up a little ATF1504AS breakout board w/JTAG header to tinker with.  I have a few comments/questions.

1.  I checked out WinCUPL and ProDesigner last year and think I decided to use WinCUPL.  I've since switched to Linux but can still use it in a VM... if there aren't any other suggestions?

2.  Last year I contacted Microchip support and asked if I could use my AVR Dragon or Atmel ICE to program the ATF1504AS.  They responded "Unfortunately no . You cannot use AVR Dragon or ICE tools.  If you want to use

ISP on your own Board, then you may use ATDH1150USB".  Is that the device the suggested product around these parts?  It's a bummer that I can't use my existing tools on CPLD's.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

Last Edited: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 05:51 PM
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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 06:02 PM (Reply to #12)
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Rooney wrote:
if there aren't any other suggestions?
Wine or CrossOverTM

WineHQ - WinCupl

WinCUPL | Compatibility Database | CodeWeavers

 

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Rooney
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Posted by Rooney: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 07:39 PM
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gchapman wrote:

Rooney wrote:
if there aren't any other suggestions?
Wine or CrossOverTM

WineHQ - WinCupl

WinCUPL | Compatibility Database | CodeWeavers

 

I use Wine for a few things with great success but haven't had luck with programs that need to access USB devices, such as my eprom programmer.  I was considering trying it, so perhaps I will now.

 

EDIT:  I also had not considered using WinCUPL for coding and a different method for programming, which might be the solution.

Last Edited: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 07:41 PM
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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 08:26 PM
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Rooney wrote:
... but haven't had luck with programs that need to access USB devices, ...
USB CDC may work; Wine 4 for USB HID (game controllers)

Rooney wrote:
EDIT:  I also had not considered using WinCUPL for coding and a different method for programming, ...
How some operate AVR Studio 4.

Rooney wrote:
... which might be the solution.
A VM's advantage is USB pass-through.

 

How do I get a USB device to work in CrossOver 16.x and older? | CrossOver Support | CodeWeavers

WineHQ - Wine Announcement - The Wine team is proud to announce that the stable release Wine 4.0

[mid-page]

*** Input devices

- HID game controllers are supported in the XInput and Raw Input APIs.

- An SDL driver is implemented to make SDL game controllers
  available through the HID interface.

 

ChangeLog | CrossOver Mac, Linux and Chrome OS | CodeWeavers

 

edit :

How do I get a USB device to work in CrossOver 17x and newer | Knowledge Base | CodeWeavers

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Apr 6, 2021 - 05:08 PM
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avrcandies
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Posted by avrcandies: Thu. Jan 28, 2021 - 10:09 PM
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I had a GAL once, blond hair blue eyes, but now all I have are some old 7400 chips!  devil

In high school they asked if I was thinking about going to the prom, I said: "Why?? -I have one with me" 

 

I remember using CUPL....seems like that was 25 years ago.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Rooney
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Posted by Rooney: Tue. Apr 6, 2021 - 04:16 PM
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Kartman wrote:

Did you check out the link I posted  in #4? You can use older Altera tools with verilog which might make the task a little easier.

 

Following up... yes, your link has been useful.

 

Initially I thought I could figure out CUPL.  I think I actually got most of it nailed down without much trouble but there were some aspects I was just too unsure of even after reading everything I could find.  I learn better by example and sometimes I can read things over and over yet still miss the point completely.  I followed your link and have now used the free Quantus II Web Edition to design my CPLD as an Altera 7064.  I also did a test converstion to ATF1504 using Atmel pof2jed, which claimed success.

 

I haven't actually programmed or tested a device yet.  I need to sort out pin assignments and how that all works.  The link you provided said to do pin layouts as if I was using the Altera chip but I need to make sure I understand how that will translate into the Atmel final product.

 

EDIT:  Upon closer inspection it looks like the pinouts are similar.  :)

Last Edited: Tue. Apr 6, 2021 - 05:04 PM
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Scroungre
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Posted by Scroungre: Wed. Apr 7, 2021 - 09:25 AM
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ABEL.  Alas, Horatio, I knew you well.  S.

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rfdes
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Posted by rfdes: Thu. Apr 8, 2021 - 11:07 AM
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I used WinCupl years ago and found a copy but it wouldn't run on Win10.  Looking for an alternative, I found a fellow that wrote a new IDE that uses the Atmel (Logical Devices) CUPL binaries.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/cupl-ide/

 

I played with it for a few minutes and looks like it might be useful to someone still desiring to work with WinCupl.  He also has a USB CPLD  programming tool called eCUP but I don't understand for what hardware the tool is used for.

https://sourceforge.net/u/ps-projects/profile/

 

Should anyone give these tools a test drive, i please come back and give their opinions as to their usefulness.

Take care -

Jim

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gchapman
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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Apr 8, 2021 - 01:43 PM (Reply to #19)
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rfdes wrote:
I used WinCupl years ago and found a copy but it wouldn't run on Win10.
WinCUPL wasn't updated to Windows 7 therefore some Windows 10 incompatibility; Atmel® ProChip Designer® is on Windows 7 and subsequent (VHDL, Verilog)

WinCUPL

Hyper-V - Add Windows XP Mode Virtual Machine in Windows 10 | Tutorials

ProChip Designer V5.0.1

 

PLD Design Resources | Microchip Technology

 

edit :

Overview | ProChip Designer

[page 3]

Table 1-1. ProChip Designer Contents and Licensing Terms

ATDS15 | Octopart

 

edit2 :

https://www.microchipdirect.com/product/search/all/ATDS15

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 8, 2021 - 01:57 PM
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Who-me
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Posted by Who-me: Thu. Apr 8, 2021 - 10:10 PM
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rfdes wrote:

I used WinCupl years ago and found a copy but it wouldn't run on Win10. 

 

I used WinCUPL under Notepad++ and batchfiles, to use the command line CUPL engine.

That seems to still work fine on Win10, so maybe it is just the windows shell stuff that no longer works on Win10 ? 

Here is a batch capture :

======== CUPL Compile then Functional Simulate ===========
DesignFile: C:\WinCUPL\HDLAP3\SER8255N
C:\WinCUPL\Shared>cupl -m1lxfjnabes -u \WinCUPL\shared\atmel.DL C:\WinCUPL\HDLAP3\SER8255N.PLD
cuplx
time: 0 secs
cupla
time: 0 secs
cuplb
time: 0 secs
cuplm
time: 0 secs
cuplc
time: 0 secs
find1502
time: 1 secs
vsima
time: 0 secs
total time: 1 secs
Normal exit
Error Code = 0
======== CUPL Compile and Functional Simulate Completed =========
Press any key to continue . . .

 

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