Thanks about debugWire info, it has been a while ago my attempts, maybe this time more luck. I will risk another UNO. But as we said, UPDI on 4808 really works well.
It would be nice to have a feature in JTAG2UPDI that caused it to switch to some sort of Serial Passthough mode after you were done programming the chip, until some sort of signal were received that put it back into UPDI mode.
This is what the SAMD11 on the genuine "Every" does, except that it has USB on one side, whereas it'd be nice to have a defined method with serial on both sides. (heh. Rx/Tx/DTR on one side, Rx/Tx/UPDI on the other.) I assume that this is essentially what the Thinary board is doing with its mystery chip...
My Thinary has a N76E003AQ20 Nuvoton microcontroller, CH340E910 USB-Serial, ATmega4808 Atmel microcontroller. i.e. no "secret" chips.
Meanwhile the Mega4808 works quite nicely with ATMEL-ICE but obviously not as nicely as the Curiosity 4809.
El Tangas can probably explain how it works. And how to recover the bootloader functionality. After all, not everyone has an Atmel-Ice.
I still reckon that a regular Optiboot-style bootloader would just need one CH340 and one Mega4808. You would lose 512 bytes of Flash memory but Chinese could knock the boards out cheaply.
As far as I know, the SAMD10 on the genuine Nano-Every does nothing more than USB-Serial and USB-UPDI programming. The SAMD10 does NOT provide full UPDI debugging.
The trick "#define Serial Serial1" really works on Thinary Atmega4808. Thankyou for the advice. Now programming, debugging and Serial.print in AS7 works with the help of UPDI and Atmel ICE. I haven't try the Arduino IDE yet.
I haven't try to restore and use the bootloader, but would be convenient too for programming, when you do not need debug.
Note that the Arduino pin numbers will depend on the core being used, and may vary from implementation to implementation, as will the pins for peripherals that are selectable via the pin mux.
The port pin numbers are of course fixed, per the datasheet, as are power and programming pins.
Testing your board with Arduino environment. One bug found in package_thinary_index.json file, which declares the architecture of the chip. It is declared as AVR whereas it should be MEGAAVR. It has effect on many thing. In addition to that you must override A.BUILD.ARCH build variable from AVR to MEGAAVR. Otherwise AVR libraries does not work. Also, since 4808 has only 3 timers, one must play some timer swapping game with certain libraries. 4809 based board worked without modifications. Anyway, it is just what it is.
Another issue is that for some reason PA1 (D3) pin does not go from HIGH (+5V) to LOW (0V), but it goes from +5V to +2.5V and from there it fades to +2.2V like it is draining some capacitor. I have LEDs in PA2, PA4-PA7 and these pins works correctly. The foil on the Nano Every board goes directly from pin to pin. The pin operates like it is analog pin in sort, but it is GPIO digital only pin. At least it should be. I have tested this with couple of boards, which are not attached to other electronics. Any ideas?
BTW. This is good board with way better design than similar Arduino board has. It is EMC hell.
The price is attractive, I agree here, but other than that I'm frustrated about it, it is a waste. Making "blink" work with Arduino IDE is mostly all you can do in a way you used to. For a more complex solution, you will mostly be struggling with various issues. The Serial thing one of them. Another major pain point is the lack Platformio integration. Also do not expect any support from a manufacturer, they're github repo is dead but people seem to be still posting issues there.
Even if the 4808 nano flopped, if I were to buy regular nano clones, I'd probably get them from these guys, at least they have a brand to protect. I suspect there is a tsunami of nano clones using fake mega328P sold by no name vendors coming to shore.
Some update here. So I tried to give it another chance, but it's just very hard to work with, so I give up on this board.
I got STM32 (STM32F103C8T6) a.k bluepill to experiment with and it looks really promising so far. It is 2x cheaper (around 2$ on aliexpress) however it has much more RAM which (as well as other resources) is a key for me (how come I didn't discover that board earlier....? :)). It was easy to start working with ArduinoIDE and most importantly a Platformio. It has failed to compile my project due to some Arduino framework incompatibilities, but that is not a big issue. Another issue is it's 3.3v, but I have my other hardware on a 5v ATM, so the signal converter will have to be used.
> if I were to buy regular nano clones, I'd probably get them from these guys, at least they have a brand to protect
Personally, I have added their aliexpress store onto my blacklist. I'm not the only one who is struggling with this board, there are other posts on the internet that are complaining of the same set of issues. If they were to protect the brand, they would've tried to mitigate such a poor user experience. They claim it's Arduino compatible, but it's not, this is virtually a fraud.
If they were to protect the brand, they would've tried to mitigate such a poor user experience. They claim it's Arduino compatible, but it's not, this is virtually a fraud.
Whoa, you really are pissed off. Well, they did go to the effort to design this product, but I guess you are right, these days everyone expects plug and play, so they should have invested more on Arduino and/or Platformio support.
Well, they did go to the effort to design this product, but I guess you are right, these days everyone expects plug and play, so they should have invested more on Arduino and/or Platformio support.
Yes, they designed the board and wrote the Thinary Core to support it.
I suspect that they manufactured an enormous batch before even announcing it. Just look at the "number available".
It would have been far safer to just copy the NANO-EVERY4809 design but with CH340 instead of SAMD10. i.e. just like the Uno and Mega2560 clones.
Creating a NANO-4808 board with completely different pinout was "brave". It could have been successful if it worked 100%.
Or even if it just came with Optiboot bootloader. e.g. like a NANO-328 but with 4808/4809
There is still a chance that another Chinese company creates a NANO format board. Perhaps with AVR128DA32 and CH340
However entering a race to the bottom (like Nano-328 or USBASP) is hardly a good business model.
You need a big market. (and make sure it works 100% first)
Maybe, maybe not. The STM32 have several 5V tolerant pins
Thanks for the hint, it will make my life slightly easier :)
El Tangas wrote:
these days everyone expects plug and play
Yep, exactly! If you say "Arduino compatible" this should mean the same plug&play experience. Most mini/nano clones I've got from aliexpress were quite good
It seems Thinary Nano Every is still sold at: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000427291663.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6f624c4d6RRSRE . By reading the QR code you find a link to load Thinary Arduino IDE core.
Thanks about debugWire info, it has been a while ago my attempts, maybe this time more luck. I will risk another UNO. But as we said, UPDI on 4808 really works well.
Andrej
Andrej M
- Log in or register to post comments
TopThanks for the link.
It looks as if they manufactured a batch of 10000 in August 2019. And have sold 192 so far. Hence the attractive $4.89 price.
Horrifies me. Mind you, Chinese packets generally take 8-18 days to get to the UK. You might have to wait 50 days for a "no delivery".
If you are buying several boards it is worth paying for tracked shipping.
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopYou can use regular Arduino Serial comms:
If you possess an ATMEL-ICE select Tool in Arduino IDE. e.g. Programmer: Atmel-ICE UPDI
Then you can Sketch->Upload via Programmer (ctl-shift-U)
In AS7.0 you build, debug, run via the UPDI interface. It works nicely.
Current versions of Adafruit_GFX library will not build on Thinary. GFX is no problem. It is all the other dross that Adafruit declares as "dependent"
Downgrade to v1.7.x
I am not sure what the Thinary "bootload problem" is. Avrdude bootload works fine with the genuine Nano-Every both from AS7.0 or Arduino IDE.
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopIt would be nice to have a feature in JTAG2UPDI that caused it to switch to some sort of Serial Passthough mode after you were done programming the chip, until some sort of signal were received that put it back into UPDI mode.
This is what the SAMD11 on the genuine "Every" does, except that it has USB on one side, whereas it'd be nice to have a defined method with serial on both sides. (heh. Rx/Tx/DTR on one side, Rx/Tx/UPDI on the other.) I assume that this is essentially what the Thinary board is doing with its mystery chip...
- Log in or register to post comments
TopMy Thinary has a N76E003AQ20 Nuvoton microcontroller, CH340E910 USB-Serial, ATmega4808 Atmel microcontroller. i.e. no "secret" chips.
Meanwhile the Mega4808 works quite nicely with ATMEL-ICE but obviously not as nicely as the Curiosity 4809.
El Tangas can probably explain how it works. And how to recover the bootloader functionality. After all, not everyone has an Atmel-Ice.
I still reckon that a regular Optiboot-style bootloader would just need one CH340 and one Mega4808. You would lose 512 bytes of Flash memory but Chinese could knock the boards out cheaply.
As far as I know, the SAMD10 on the genuine Nano-Every does nothing more than USB-Serial and USB-UPDI programming. The SAMD10 does NOT provide full UPDI debugging.
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
Top@david,
The trick "#define Serial Serial1" really works on Thinary Atmega4808. Thankyou for the advice. Now programming, debugging and Serial.print in AS7 works with the help of UPDI and Atmel ICE. I haven't try the Arduino IDE yet.
I haven't try to restore and use the bootloader, but would be convenient too for programming, when you do not need debug.
best regards,
Andrej
Andrej M
- Log in or register to post comments
TopHi,
my previous message was somehow lost, so I am repeating.
The question is, has anyone suceedeed using LCD20x4 on Thinary Nano Every using I2C interface?
I connected A5 - SCL, A4 - SDA, as usual for Nano.
I am using AS7 + Visual Micro Plugin for Arduino.
Downloading and debugging via UPDI works. The program loops in Wire.c library, function lcd.init().
The sentence is line 327:
/* Arduino requires blocking function */
while(master_result == TWIM_RESULT_UNKNOWN) {}
Any idea?
Best regards, Andrej
Andrej M
- Log in or register to post comments
TopNo, it's been split to a thread of its own - here: https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/...
Top Tips:
- Log in or register to post comments
TopHi, everybody
I try to draw pinout of this board
Could you check it and tell me what's wrong? or what should be add
Timers, interrupts (but don't know its names and pinouts )
- Log in or register to post comments
TopWell google says:
so I'd start by comparing to that perhaps?
EDIT: actually more comprehensive is:
I go to that from the very interesting thread at:
https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=644395.0
- Log in or register to post comments
TopNote that the Arduino pin numbers will depend on the core being used, and may vary from implementation to implementation, as will the pins for peripherals that are selectable via the pin mux.
The port pin numbers are of course fixed, per the datasheet, as are power and programming pins.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopI would only label pins with functions provided by your boards.txt file.
For example, you have Ain8-Ain12 in the diagram, but your boards.txt only maps A0-A7.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopHow can you see, the arduino original nano every has Atmega4909. But in this topick we discussed chinese board with Atmega 4808
These are different boards. That's why I am trying to figure out a Chinese craft.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopPlease read #53 and other messages in this thread.
Yes, the Thinary board works. The Arduino "Thinary" core has a few problems. It has never been updated. Look at the GitHub repository.
Thinary do not seem to respond to Issues or Pull Requests.
Note that the pin usage is very different to the genuine Nano-Every.
You can see the usage from the pins_arduino.h and variant.cpp files
It is probably worth the current $4.89 sale price if you know what you are going to do with it.
And it would help Thinary to recoup some of the cost of assembling their first batch of boards.
It is unlikely that they will ever be able to shift the whole batch unless the "Thinary Core" worked 100%.
So there is little point in making a nice graphic for the pinout.
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopHi!
Testing your board with Arduino environment. One bug found in package_thinary_index.json file, which declares the architecture of the chip. It is declared as AVR whereas it should be MEGAAVR. It has effect on many thing. In addition to that you must override A.BUILD.ARCH build variable from AVR to MEGAAVR. Otherwise AVR libraries does not work. Also, since 4808 has only 3 timers, one must play some timer swapping game with certain libraries. 4809 based board worked without modifications. Anyway, it is just what it is.
Another issue is that for some reason PA1 (D3) pin does not go from HIGH (+5V) to LOW (0V), but it goes from +5V to +2.5V and from there it fades to +2.2V like it is draining some capacitor. I have LEDs in PA2, PA4-PA7 and these pins works correctly. The foil on the Nano Every board goes directly from pin to pin. The pin operates like it is analog pin in sort, but it is GPIO digital only pin. At least it should be. I have tested this with couple of boards, which are not attached to other electronics. Any ideas?
BTW. This is good board with way better design than similar Arduino board has. It is EMC hell.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopHi All, will share my experience with this board.
The price is attractive, I agree here, but other than that I'm frustrated about it, it is a waste. Making "blink" work with Arduino IDE is mostly all you can do in a way you used to. For a more complex solution, you will mostly be struggling with various issues. The Serial thing one of them. Another major pain point is the lack Platformio integration. Also do not expect any support from a manufacturer, they're github repo is dead but people seem to be still posting issues there.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopI suspect that Thinary manufactured a batch of 10000 and have only ever shifted about 200.
It could have been a very useful competitor to the official EVERY.
In which case we would have a load of cheap Chinese clones (that worked 100%) just like we have Chinese Nano-328 and Uno clones.
It actually works quite nicely with an ATMEL-ICE because it has an accessible UPDI pin. i.e. program and debug via UPDI.
Out of curiosity. Does your Thinary upload ok via the Arduino IDE ?
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopThe upload works (after importing package index). Fully agree, the board looks really promising, but in the current state is a total waste.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopEven if the 4808 nano flopped, if I were to buy regular nano clones, I'd probably get them from these guys, at least they have a brand to protect. I suspect there is a tsunami of nano clones using fake mega328P sold by no name vendors coming to shore.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopSome update here. So I tried to give it another chance, but it's just very hard to work with, so I give up on this board.
I got STM32 (STM32F103C8T6) a.k bluepill to experiment with and it looks really promising so far. It is 2x cheaper (around 2$ on aliexpress) however it has much more RAM which (as well as other resources) is a key for me (how come I didn't discover that board earlier....? :)). It was easy to start working with ArduinoIDE and most importantly a Platformio. It has failed to compile my project due to some Arduino framework incompatibilities, but that is not a big issue. Another issue is it's 3.3v, but I have my other hardware on a 5v ATM, so the signal converter will have to be used.
> if I were to buy regular nano clones, I'd probably get them from these guys, at least they have a brand to protect
Personally, I have added their aliexpress store onto my blacklist. I'm not the only one who is struggling with this board, there are other posts on the internet that are complaining of the same set of issues. If they were to protect the brand, they would've tried to mitigate such a poor user experience. They claim it's Arduino compatible, but it's not, this is virtually a fraud.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopMaybe, maybe not. The STM32 have several 5V tolerant pins, you need to check the datasheet to find out which pins you can connect to 5V directly.
More info: http://www.emcu.eu/stm32-used-in-5v-environment/
Whoa, you really are pissed off. Well, they did go to the effort to design this product, but I guess you are right, these days everyone expects plug and play, so they should have invested more on Arduino and/or Platformio support.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopYes, they designed the board and wrote the Thinary Core to support it.
I suspect that they manufactured an enormous batch before even announcing it. Just look at the "number available".
It would have been far safer to just copy the NANO-EVERY4809 design but with CH340 instead of SAMD10. i.e. just like the Uno and Mega2560 clones.
Creating a NANO-4808 board with completely different pinout was "brave". It could have been successful if it worked 100%.
Or even if it just came with Optiboot bootloader. e.g. like a NANO-328 but with 4808/4809
There is still a chance that another Chinese company creates a NANO format board. Perhaps with AVR128DA32 and CH340
However entering a race to the bottom (like Nano-328 or USBASP) is hardly a good business model.
You need a big market. (and make sure it works 100% first)
David.
- Log in or register to post comments
TopThanks for the hint, it will make my life slightly easier :)
Yep, exactly! If you say "Arduino compatible" this should mean the same plug&play experience. Most mini/nano clones I've got from aliexpress were quite good
- Log in or register to post comments
TopPages