Does any one have a suggestion for a board house for inexpensive runs of 100 boards that are 30mm X 50mm? Then, is there a place that will build these boards - all SMT parts - inexpensively?
Thanks,
Mike.
gr82bdad 
PCB manufacturer?
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gr82bdad leon_heller 
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Try Olimex. They can make the boards and populate them.
Leon
buserror 
I had good results for making boards with pcbcart.com (and cheap!), however I have no idea if they populate too..
pkafig
Advanced Circuits can make and stuff your boards. I've only had boards made but not stuffed, so I don't know how prices compare.
Regards,
Paul
P.S. AC is located in Colorado, USA. Your profile doesn't say where you are located, so I don't know if this helps.
gr82bdad Quote:
Your profile doesn't say where you are located
I fixed that. Kansas City, MO USA Thanks.
These are all great suggestions. We use advanced circuits at my real job. But not for populating. My personal budget is more in line with PCBCART.com.
Any more suggestions are welcome. But, from this list, I will try pcbcart.com first. I'm going to contact Olimex as well about populating them. It doesn't look as though pcbcart does that sort of thing.
Thanks.
buserror A tip with pcbcart : they seem to do the week's order on the monday, they send you a gebber file and/or a .pdf with the layers on monday via email, and if you reply quickly enough to confirm you could get into that batch and receive the boards 4 days later (I'm in europe). So the 8 days lead can be a lot quicker...
I heard mentioned there is another cheap china based operation with a 'contact' in Canada; I don't have the name at the moment but I will post it later when I do.
monkeytech I've been very pleased with the results / prices from Myro - they've got an office in Canada but orders are done in China.
forgot to mention - they also do assembly - you can have them mount standard parts that they have in stock, or send them the parts to do it all.
Last Edited: Tue. Jul 3, 2007 - 11:48 PM
js 
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Quote:
You are so fortunate..... :lol: some people do really "stuff" boards...
I've only had boards made but not stuffed,
toalan
monkeytech wrote:
I've been very pleased with the results / prices from Myro - they've got an office in Canada but orders are done in China.forgot to mention - they also do assembly - you can have them mount standard parts that they have in stock, or send them the parts to do it all.
Holy sh*t, I just spilt my milk.
myropcb takes the crown as the cheapest place to get pcbs made. I was with goldpheonix for the last 2 years, now I am going to give myropcb a try.
Ty monkey.
Regards,
Alan To
ocnek1
www.ezpcb.com is good too. I get all my prototypes and production runs from them.
Oh, and they have a deal right now where they will assemble the board (depending on component count) for $50US.
wow...
buserror ezpcb.com looks to have a great selection if service (stencils etc)... however for prototyping their tooling price is $50 (!) so for a small run of 5 boards, pcbcart is almost $40 cheaper...
Good thread tho, the more choice, the better :D
nleahcim
I just recently had 20 12"x12" 2 sided PCBs made by njpcb.com. They did them for about $20 each, which was significantly cheaper than every single other place that I checked with.
jsiei97
monkeytech wrote:
I've been very pleased with the results / prices from Myro - they've got an office in Canada but orders are done in China.forgot to mention - they also do assembly - you can have them mount standard parts that they have in stock, or send them the parts to do it all.
Used them some time back with some 2 layer cards.
Could recomend them, nice looking cards.
/Johan
buserror Here are pictures of what I got from pcbcart.com. The one thing I noticed is that the board seems 'brittle' ie more hard/rigid/glass-like that what I've see on other commercial boards. but I have nothing to compare it to from me, these are my first two boards :D
Otherwise I showed them to the in house real hardware guy and he said they were very good quality.
jsiei97
buserror wrote:
The one thing I noticed is that the board seems 'brittle' ie more hard/rigid/glass-like that what I've see on other commercial boards. but I have nothing to compare it to from me, these are my first two boards :D
If you can spare a card, you can do a "flex"-test just for fun.
Take a card and see how much you can bend the card before the copper lines gets broken and then how much before the entire card breaks.
Most cards are actually quite hard to break 8)
unless it is a very important card with no substitute :lol:
/Johan
Malmkvist Dunno if someone already mentioned them, but I used speedypcb_com once, and they were fast 'n cheap. I had five 89x300mm boards made, 4 layers, silk screen on both sides, black solder mask.. Price inclusive of shipping to Denmark: 249 USD.
Don't know about the prices of other suggestions, but compared to standard Danish prices, that's just dirt cheap. And the quality was excellent.
Malmkvist
Malmkvist ... (forgot to tick of notify me checkbox)
jgmdesign 
I use expressPCB. They give you a crude, but functional schematic/pcb software package that works pretty well.
Buserror,
Those boards look pretty good!
gr82bdad I got a quote from Myro last night for stuffing my board. I spilled my beer. I'm putting together a real package for them now to test them out. 100 bare PCBs (30X50mm), stuffed with the parts I send them (mega48 and 20 other SMT items) for less than US$5 each board! That's hard to pass up.
gr82bdad At the office we use Delta Circuits. But they are definitely out of my price range for a moonlighting project.
jgmdesign $5.00 a board is not bad.....especially if it is SMD.
Here on Long Island they charge by pin, and it is double for surface mount, unless you are doing a big run and can supply the component vector files for their surface mount machine
Jim
donblake
jgmdesign wrote:
I used ExpressPCB for a while. Quality is real good. Miniboard (2.5" x 3.8") gives you two double-sided boards for $51 + S&H.
I use expressPCB. They give you a crude, but functional schematic/pcb software package that works pretty well.
But I've since switched because:
- For solder screen, you have to use their Production Service with a base price of $233
- You have to use their software. If you later decide to go someplace else, you have to redo your board using another PCB program.
Don
ezcomp 
I have used PCBFabExpress, PCBExpress, and BatchPCB. Price-wise, my favorite is BatchPCB but the lead time, minimum via and trace size all suck. PCBFabExpress isn't as cheap but the boards are nicer and the minimum sizes are better.
I'll probably try out one or two of the vendors recommended here...
valusoft 
I have used ezpcb twice. Satisfied both times. I see that they now provide assembly services also. For a simple through hole assembly, their online quote was 2 US cents per pin for assembly. I am not opposed to using the soldering iron myself, but at those prices, I am more profitable watching my front lawn grow.
js
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Do all the people above insist on you supplying the Gerber files? It drives me nuts and in about 15 years of using Protel I haven't really been able to do proper Gerber plots, so I only use people that will just take the .pcb file and they do the rest. I have used PCBCART (100-200 boards) because they offer this service.
valusoft John,
I send gerber files to ezpcb. Adds 2 minutes to my process. Sounds like Protel is your problem. I could not imagine the "hair pulling" that the board companies would have trying to keep all of the alternative software packages up to date. And if you have problems with Protel....why wouldn't they also ? :twisted:
Regards,
toalan
gr82bdad wrote:
I got a quote from Myro last night for stuffing my board. I spilled my beer. I'm putting together a real package for them now to test them out. 100 bare PCBs (30X50mm), stuffed with the parts I send them (mega48 and 20 other SMT items) for less than US$5 each board! That's hard to pass up.
Hi,
Do you have a pic of your board you can send me? I am interested in using myro for assembly and I want to get an idea what I can expect for the money.
How many solder points do you have? Does myro offer favourable prices for components? What does the 5 bucks you pay include; PCB, components, or just assembly?
Regards,
Alan To
js
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Quote:
Because...they know what they are doing...:(And if you have problems with Protel....why wouldn't they also ?
I don't understand all the strokes, brush, flashing that needs to be done when I don't have a pad or track in my library. I had it all expalined to me once and thought...not too bad..but then I got spoiled by all the people tha will just take (some even prefer) just the .pcb file. :)
gr82bdad Quote:
How many solder points do you have? Does myro offer favourable prices for components? What does the 5 bucks you pay include; PCB, components, or just assembly?
I used their on-line quote form and got that price. It's 30mmX50mm has a mega48, 12 0805 parts, 3 sot23 type parts, and a through hole header.
I'm putting together a real package with BOM and data sheets and gerbers for them to give me a more detailed quote. When I get the run back, I'll send you pics and my expert opinion.
Quote:
Do all the people above insist on you supplying the Gerber files?
Myro will take a DXF or a DWG of the artwork if that helps.
Jevin 
ezcomp wrote:
I have used PCBFabExpress, PCBExpress, and BatchPCB. Price-wise, my favorite is BatchPCB but the lead time, minimum via and trace size all suck. PCBFabExpress isn't as cheap but the boards are nicer and the minimum sizes are better.I'll probably try out one or two of the vendors recommended here...
8mm spacing minumum, does that mean 8mm margins from the edge of the board? I want to make a breakout board for a 0.5mm flex circuit (I'll have a lot of fun soldering that :() and I was thinking about using BatchPCB for the job. I'll just have to learn Eagle... :?
nanovate
Quote:
and in about 15 years of using Protel I haven't really been able to do proper Gerber plots,
What version of Protel are you using?
kmr
ezcomp wrote:
I just placed my first order with them, looking forward to testing the build quality.
PCBFabExpress isn't as cheap but the boards are nicer and the minimum sizes are better.
toalan
PCBFabExpress is awesome for prototyping if you live in the USA and can stay within the max # of holes per square inch, I believe that it is 25 holes per square inch.
Exceeding the max holes per inch costs you $50 more, shipping outside of USA costs you $50 more. But their boards are top quality stuff.
I put in an order to Myro 2 weeks ago, I should get the boards end of this week or early next week. Service wise they are very prompt in answering Email enquiries. For low run boards, the fixed costs of setup and delivery is just too high to compete with other companies, but for higher production runs Myro seems to offer the best price.
When I have the time I would like to setup a site reviewing the various popular places that offer pcb manufacturing; prices, quality, service, time.
lpapad I have not tested MicroCirtec, but they have nice pricing: http://www.microcirtec.com
js
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Quote:
The, now free, Protel for dos 1.61.
What version of Protel are you using?
kmr
toalan wrote:
Thanks, I'll keep them in mind if the protoype boards come out okay. My board is small, only 4 square inches that I think I can tighten up to 3 sq inches. Since PCBFabexpress minimum price point is 10 sq inches, it seems for a production run that another company can do better.
...but for higher production runs Myro seems to offer the best price.
toalan
I got my 100 boards back from myro this week. I have not used them yet, still trying to finish off the boards I got from goldpheonix.
I thought that myro was just another reseller of goldpheonix pcb, it looks like they use a different plant because the pcb from myro is darker than the pcb from goldpheonix. It is not conclusive evidence, but all my past 5 orders from goldpheonix had a light green pcb material and myro was a shade darker.
Time from order to delivery was about 3 weeks, other places like pcbfabexpress can do it in 1-1.5 weeks, goldpheonix can do it in about 2 weeks.
Myro was extremely prompt in their email replies and had great customer service. The myro rep that I emailed seemed to have a much better command of the english language than the rep at goldpheonix.
nanovate
Quote:
The, now free, Protel for dos 1.61.
I do not know much about that one. I have used their later offerings -- DXP and Designer.
js
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Quote:
Maybe it was around BEFORE you were born? :lol: I would love to use a newer version of Protel but I will have to sell my house to buy it :cry:
I do not know much about that one
leon_heller
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I use PCB-Pool a lot, but they don't do assembly. Their boards are very high quality and they can do 6/6 mils and 0.3 mm holes as standard. I normally use their five day or eight day service. They accept many popular PCB file formats, including Pulsonix which I use - they charge more for Gerbers.
Leon
toalan
I heard that pcbpool uses the same factory as goldpheonix does.
leon_heller
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PCB-Pool has there boards made in Germany. I think they use several suppliers.
Leon
daqq 
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http://research.techkwondo.com/?...
A nice blog entry on this topic.
kmr
So far, the customer support at PCBFabExpress has not met expectations. I sent my files Sunday Jul 15. Order status on the web site remains "Order in process, files being reviewed." I submitted two support tickets about my order status, one on Jul 20 and another early today. After not hearing anything back from them, I called them. I was told there was a problem with trace clearance and they sent me an email on Jul 16. I don't have any record of receiving that email.
Whether they sent the email or not, it's not adequate that they did not respond to two support tickets. Further, it would be much better if there order status could say something like, "trouble with uploaded files, awaiting resubmission", so that one doesn't waste a week waiting for board to arrive.
leon_heller
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PCB-Pool is very good in terms of feedback. The web page with the order tracking has a little green three bar indicator. The first shows when the files have been checked by turning yellow, the second shows when they are in production, and the third shows when they have been sent. They also have an option to email photos of the board going through the various production stages like drilling, HASL, etc.
Leon
GregoryC I had great results a few years ago with Advanced Circuits http://4pcb.com in Denver, CO. I will surely go back to them next time I need PCBs.
kmr
Thanks for the other recommendations. I'll look into them for my next board order.
toalan
I tried one of the myro boards, no problems with it.
dharper Malmkvist wrote:
Dunno if someone already mentioned them, but I used speedypcb_com once, and they were fast 'n cheap.
About the time that this thread was active, I was in the final stages of layout on a small, 2 layer board that had a Mega640 with a 100 pin CBGA package. This pushes the layout a little bit past the standard parameters for the inexpensive prototypes that most fab houses offer. I had a previous revision of the board built at a fab house in China and, while the price was dirt cheap ($89 for 10 boards), so was the quality. The boards were basically unusable. Based on the above post, I decided to give Speedy PCB a try after their quote came in far less than others I had looked at (the 10-piece ranges were from $109 for Speedy to a high of over $400 for a couple of others - admittedly with faster turnaround). Speedy quoted a turn of 20 business days starting from July 27 when I placed the order. The boards were waiting for me when I got home tonight (9 business days including UPS shipping?) and, after looking at them under the inspection microscope, they look to be of very good quality. They even got the soldermask around the BGA pads and vias right - something the previous board house didn't even try.
Anyway, thanks for the tip and I just thought I'd pass along some positive feedback in case anyone else is thinking of trying them.
Dave
AllN 
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dharper wrote:
Malmkvist wrote:Thanks for the feed back, good to know.... I just thought I'd pass along some positive feedback in case anyone else is thinking of trying them.Dave
John
daqq
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It's strange no one has ever made a summary of PCB manufacturers and rated them like 1/10, 2 out of 10...
Or is there something like that?
ezcomp PCBcart has really snagged my attention because they offer lots of options (solder mask colors, copper weights, etc). Does anybody know if the "one-time tooling fee" is really one-time, or is that applied to each order?
js
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Quote:
I have only used them a couple of times with different artwork, I think it is really "one-time tooling fee" but could not rule out a small set up fee, other manufaturers do.
the "one-time tooling fee" is really one-time,
jsiei97
daqq wrote:
It's strange no one has ever made a summary of PCB manufacturers and rated them like 1/10, 2 out of 10...Or is there something like that?
I must say... strange no one has totally bashed any supplier, or is all the big PCB manufactures that good?
/Johan
daqq
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jsiei97: Well, my teacher was really pissed of with Amset :-) . I'd guess that it's an evolutionary thing. If you make crappy boards, the word gets out more quickly than if you made good boards. Without customers, you die of moneyhunger.
Oh, and if you are in Slovakia, here's my favorite http://ups.savba.sk/pcb
arune toalan: Could you please scan (or use a digital camera) a card from the MyroPCB-batch? Or perhaps one from Myro and one from Gold Phoenix?
Could be great for others to compare two different suppliers.
I've ordered PCB from Olimex before:
http://www.arune.se/gallery/v/lo...
But this time I ordered from MyroPCB, the reasons are better price at Myro with big order and smaller vias.
We'll see how those boards turn out. If they are ok and I get the funding an order will be placed on assembly for about 100 new boards.
Thanks
Anders
buserror I just placed an order for a few 'fancy' boards from pcbcart. One small serie is black with black mate and gold immersion (I resisted the drive to get red silkscreen :D), the other blue, with 1.0mm thickness...
One of them is a panel too and has some round corners, I wonder how the depanelization will handle that...
Attachment(s):
arune I got my first MyroPCB-order yesterday. This evening I will go and solder the first boards. Its 55x18 mm, avrmega168 + CAN.
The result is really sweet, well see if they work :)
Some images of the PCB:
http://www.arune.se/gallery/v/lo...
zoomcityzoom 
@arune: Nice looking boards.
I've used MyroPCB for about 6 different orders now and have been extremely happy with both quality, price, and delivery time. The $50 NRE goes away after the first order on a particular board. I found that there's no price difference between two week and 1 week turn times so I always select 1 week turn time now.
Tom
toalan
I just got a quote from Myro for assembly + parts supply for 200 of my boards. I was very happy with the quote, their prices for components are very reasonable.
SMD resistors are 1 cent USD
SMD ceramic 10 nf caps are 6 cents USD
SMD 5 volt regulator is 34 cents USD
SMD lm358 is 31 cents
Those are the component prices for the popular components my board has. I know everyone is going to want to know the price for AVR, sorry I am not using AVR for this board.
For Assembly, it looks like they charged me 0.12 cents per smd solder. However it looks like there is a setup fee of $365 ontop of the 0.12 cents per smd solder. I assume that on my 2nd order most of the setup fees would be waved.
All together it looks like the total costs per unit is ~11 USD, not including shipping, I was expecting something closer to 15 USD so I am very happy.
I just got back 600 dollars worth of pcb from myro and they look good.
I think myro should know that you guys heard of them through avrfreaks, would be nice if they became an advertiser and perhaps had a special for us. So guys let them know in your email that avrfreaks.net is where you found out about them.
Regards,
Alan To
KnightsOfTheRound Hi all,
I have used one time PCBCart in China, and I get no issues with, and they are very fast.
please found here the link to my project in a French forum, some pictures available.
http://forums.jelectronique.com/ftopic4869-0-asc-10.php
Bye
js
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Quote:
the link to my project in a French forum
Finally those 3 years studying French (~40 years ago) came in handy :) as someone else said :
"tres beau travail "
rjbishop 
Does myropcb allow panelizing or multiple designs on a single board for their prototype service? I have a need to create at least 20 small boards for one project, but most places don't allow panelizing on prototypes without charging a hefty fee on top of the prototype cost.
js
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Just got a prototype panel from PCBCART, 4 designs 12 pcbs from smallish to largish. ~$100.00 one off set up fee I think.
buserror js, did they depanelize them for you ?
js
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This lot they did because I think I clicked on single boards but last time they all were in a big blob, easily separated though. oh alright here is one of them :)
Edit posted a better photo scan.
Attachment(s):
buserror I received mine, with the 'fancy' options (gold pads, blue and black finish, 1.2mm thickness) and they look gorgeous.
The .pdf I posted a few daysago was a 'panel' and they depanelized them, including the round corners!
Also, it seems the gold finish is a lot more 'precise' than the tinned finish, I have a few tiny connectors (.5mm) and the pads are very nice and extremely regular...
I'll do a high res scan tonight, before I crack up the solder paste :D
js
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Quote:
Got about 100 largish boards last year with gold finish form them too (gearing up for lead free on some products :( yuck ) and the boards look impressive, I had a hard time handing them over to the board stuffers :lol: however I was told by them that it isn't really gold (could have fooled me) but some sort of copper..whatever.. They had to increase the solder bath's temp a little to work with them as I understand.
I received mine, with the 'fancy' options (gold pads, blue and black finish, 1.2mm thickness) and they look gorgeous.
buserror I know what you mean, they look too good to put some filthy components on ! :D (almost)
I'm not entirely sure of the 'impact' of the 'gold' finish, but it certainly looks a lot more 'precise'; I'll see how the reflow goes. Maybe the normal tining is just naturally thicker thus the impression of less precision.
buserror As threatened, a couple images of the pcbcart boards, partly populated.
avrhornet Be careful with MyroPCB. They are dirt cheap, and some of my stuffed boards reflect the price. Parts missing, backwards, etc...
arune avrhornet:
Oh, could you please post images of your boards?
jayjay1974
Those blue/black PCBs look really Elektor-ish :D
I used PCB-Pool twice now; received a 6 layer prototype a few days ago. Looks good, but I don't really like the soldermask they use, it's too shiny. I prefer a slightly duller finish.
Their customer service is excellent; received a reply to an email within an hour.
I'm wondering... is electrical testing done after manufacture, or before the soldermask is applied? By accident, one footprint got soldermask on the pads, and the E/T came out fine. While it's impossible to solder components onto these covered pads :D Or are the probes so sharp they puncture through the mask?
Spamiam
buserror wrote:
As threatened, a couple images of the pcbcart boards, partly populated.
Buserror, I like that ribbon connector you used. I have been looking for them (a little), and I have not found them. I must not be looking with the right name. What is the name and manufacturer of that connector you used?
-Tony
barnacle
Spamiam, RS components in the UK have them: Look for 'FFC Cable Assembly, 0.5mm'. They're a Molex part.
buserror Actualy this is the Cheap non-molex equivalent at farnells. Had no problem with them tho. Maybe they'll breakdown after 10000 activation instead of 10000000 or something :D
I can post the Eagle footprint too if you like
arune I've recently ordered/received assembled cards from MyroPCB and I can higly recommend them.
It's the same PCB as I've ordered from them earlier (see my previous posts in this thread.)
The order was for 120 cards of the same type, about 50x20mm, 4 ICs (one avrmega168), xtal, 16 0603-components, 2 diodes. Only SMD.
The result is very good, soo far I've done a basic test on 33 of them and no issues yet. (Since the card is very simple the basic test covers most of the functionality.)
Price:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/p...
As you can see, the price for one time costs is 160+85 so for the next order prices for each unit will go down about 2$/pcs depending on order size.
I'd say they are very cheap if you can order a high amount of units.
Pictures: http://www.arune.se/gallery/v/lo...
siliconray www.EzPCB.com. We had all our boards made by them, reasonable price for good quality. They offer free components (res, cap, connectors) for prototyping boards and even solder one for free!
I visit their website some days before, found it's updated. Now it accept online payment by paypal. The Ez-Proto service is the most cost effective PCB fab service I've ever seen, only $50 for 5pcs 4"x4", full featured boards. Do forget it's worldwide free shipping. Here's the ez-proto: http://www.ezpcb.com/ezpcbweb3/o...
jenniferzhao It seems all customer likes online quoting, online ordering,maybe our company should change website accoring to customer need.
ignoramus
JayJay,
No the probes are not sharp enough to do that kind of probing.
Sometimes the pad is a mid point pad and the electrical test is may be configured for end points test only ( logic being if there is connectivity between ends of nets... why probe each nd every mid point)
At other times the test may be less than perfect.
Flying probe testers use a number of techniques to optimise the test time.
The operator may do a charge rise time test only to check for sufficient copper area in a net.In which case the masked pad probably would not be picked up by the tester.
Obscured features may not necessarily be picked up by electrical test