ATmega8 vs Atmega88

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I've been searching answers for this question for so long but none satisfied me. So, let this be for the last time, what are the advantages of the more modern ATmega88 over ATmega8? I'm not asking for any opinion, those are usually a matter of habits. I'm looking for some spec comparison.

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Power consumption is one, the M88P as the P is pico power. 

Pin Change interrupts on all port pins is another for the M88.

CLKPR is another, so you can pick your processor speed on the fly rather then only by fuse setting.

I'm sure there more....

 

What are you looking for? Anything in particular? 

 

Jim

 

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Further advantage of single intRC and CLKPR is that also means only one OSCCAL tuning.

Haven't verified this but I assume the UART can do SPI unlike m8 one.

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Operating Voltage

    mega8:    4.5V - 5.5V

    mega88:  2.7V - 5.5V

 

Top Frequency

    mega8:      16MHz

    mega88:    20MHz

Last Edited: Fri. Jul 12, 2019 - 10:55 PM
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Chuck99 wrote:
Operating Voltage

Yah know, OP don't want no stankin' opinion.  Out of fashion for the young whippersnappers, but back when I was you age I'd print out the first page(s) with the feature summary, lay them out side-by-side, and read-ponder-mark the differences.  Print out the register summary, and do the same.  Scroll through the Typical Characteristics, Absolute Maximums, and similar.

 

If you [the OP] have any particular features, then we are glad to debate or at least explain.

 

Somehow I don't think much homework has been done.  Heck, "compare" two models on DigiKey...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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There are no real advantages of the "more modern" ATmega88 over ATmega8.  Both are obsolete for new designs.

 

If you want mega8-class performance, get an Arduino Nano with an ATmega328P.   You get four times the program memory, plus the entire Nano module board is cheaper than either the Mega8 or 88 stand-alone IC.  And you get all the experience and debugged library code that has been uploaded to the web by 100,000 Arduino users.

 

 

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Simonetta wrote:
...the entire Nano module board is cheaper than either the Mega8 or 88 stand-alone I

You're saying I can buy loaded boards for around a dollar each?  Links please?

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The mega88 has twice as many PWM channels (m8 has no output compare on timer0, and only one on Timer2)

 

You're saying I can buy loaded boards for around a dollar each?  Links please?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32819572070.html?storeId=213957&spm=2114.12010615.8148356.5.3e447485JyX99F 

This is (IMO), one of the more technically competent dealers, so the board is somewhat more expensive than some of the other AliExpress dealers.

OTOH, Aliexpress will also yield ATmega8 chips (bare) for about $0.70.

 

Personally, I think you ought to leap all the way to the 328pb.  Extra USART, extra I2C, extra timer, a couple extra pins.
Cheap development board with debugger:  https://www.microchip.com/Develo...

 

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Hi,

 

Simonetta wrote:
There are no real advantages of the "more modern" ATmega88 over ATmega8.  Both are obsolete for new designs.

 

If you want mega8-class performance, get an Arduino Nano with an ATmega328P.   You get four times the program memory, plus the entire Nano module board is cheaper than either the Mega8 or 88 stand-alone IC.  And you get all the experience and debugged library code that has been uploaded to the web by 100,000 Arduino users.

• The subject is about the ATmega88 and ATmega8 MCUs, not the ATmega328P boards.

 

• The ATmega8 and ATmega88 MCUs are not obsolete. They are just not recommended for new designs, unofficially. But neither is the ATmega328P MCU. For modern designs, the ATmega328PB MCU should be used.

 

• Since the Arduino Nano board was designed for specific purposes by rather unskilled developers, it presents several drawbacks and flaws. The ADC is noisy, the 5V reference voltage and logic levels are unaccurate when the board is supplied with USB, the clock accuracy is poor, several native functions -- such as the 8-bit I/O ports or the TC2 asynchronous operation mode -- are not available anymore, the board's minimum power consumtion is high, and so on...

 

• Most of the libraries developed for the ATmega328P MCU also run on the ATmega8 and ATmega88 MCUs.

Last Edited: Sat. Jul 13, 2019 - 08:14 AM
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Well, here's one of the cheapest AVR module boards: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Pr...

 

They are probably cheaper in quantities of ten to a hundred.  These boards have a good bootloader preloaded, but there is no USB interface.  You have to supply what is referred to a "FTDI interface", which is a USB-based UART. 

 

It's better to buy a Nano clone for about $2.50 because these modules have the "FTDI" built-in, and are ready to plug-and-play.https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-Ar...

 

If you're feeling adventurous and technically bold, go for the "Blue Pill".  These are ARM-based 32-bit processor modules that are similar to the Arduino modules.  However, they don't come from the factory with Auduino bootloaders encoded into their memory.  You need a "FTDI interface" to do this, along with a bit of web research and experimenting.  These ARM MCUs have about ten times the memory and speed as the ATmega8-based MCU found on the Nano, but their manufacturing cost is about the same.https://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-S...

The Arduino IDE has a template for this MCU based on GNU C++, so you can use Arduino code with the I2C, UART, SPI, DMA, ADC, etc...

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That board is about 3 times the 168 price in quantity??

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Hi,

 

Simonetta wrote:
These boards have a good bootloader preloaded, but there is no USB interface.  You have to supply what is referred to a "FTDI interface", which is a USB-based UART. 
The best MCU board is the one that does what you really want and that does it the best.

 

Having a boot loader is not necessarily good for the startup performances and reliability.

 

And if your application does not need any USB interface, it's better not to have any onboard, especially if a low power consumption is required or if another peripheral uses the USART.

 

The MCU can be programmed thru the SPI interface using an ISP programmer -- such as an Arduino board running the "Arduino as ISP" sketch. Moreover, this programming method allows more features since the configuration fuses can be programmed. For instance, one can change the system clock source, change the BOD level, protect the program or get 22 I/O pins.

 

Simonetta wrote:
It's better to buy a Nano clone for about $2.50 because these modules have the "FTDI" built-in, and are ready to plug-and-play.https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-Ar...
Note that most of the Nano clones have cheap CH340 chips onboard, since genuine FTDI chips are more expensive.

 

Anyway, these chips only provide a USB CDC to asynchronous serial interface, and they can only achieve reliable transfers at low baudrates. So they are not suitable for lots of application that require other USB classes -- such as HID -- or reliable higher speed transfers.

 

 

On the other hand, if you want an ATmega328P board with an Arduino boot loader when your application does not require USB, then you can find Arduino Pro Mini clones for less than $2.

 

As a result, Nano clones are not always the best nor the cheapest solution. Actually, that depends on your application.

 

 

But as I said before, the MCU board is not the subject. The subject is "ATmega88 MCU vs. ATmega8 MCU".

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theusch wrote:
when I was you age I'd print out the first page(s) with the feature summary, lay them out side-by-side, and read-ponder-mark the differences.

 

Well, there are some details you can't get from the headlines and you only notice with time and experience.

For example, the mega88 can toggle output states by writing the PIN registers, the mega8 can't.

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BTW @OP are you talking about the rather unlikely choice of mega88 or the far more obvious choice of meag88P?

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Hi, thank you all for your answers. Sadly, there are no DIP versions for ATmega88PB, so as an amateur and a fan of breadboards/perfboards I will not be able to use it. I have ATmega8A and ATmega88PA microcontrollers to be more specific. So as I understand, you must use 5V supply voltage with mega8 but you can use 3.3V with mega88. The most important difference is that point for me, as I am never gonna use those devices to their limits.

To the person who recommended me to use Arduino: I hate Arduino. I have started electronics with them (yeah, I am 14 y.o and started 3 years ago, sorry for my stupid questions). But it does not encourage you to do anything in low level, nor understand how it works. Just include the library, don't question how it works. Don't try to use the timers, we have an inaccurate delay function for you! Don't write to PORTX registers, we have a slow digitalWrite for you! Don't bother making simple delays, just include the Servo library! Never use ICSP, we have a built-in usb-serial chip for you(btw they are really using ATmega16U2's as usb-uart smh)!

You get the point. I don't want to support the community of Arduino. I want bare chips to be used in robotics. I don't want to be forced to use their stupid MCU in FRC.(yeah that's why I hate FRC)

 

Last Edited: Sun. Jul 14, 2019 - 10:44 PM
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Arduino can be used without the software.  Bare metal.

I use the IDE to program chips because it's available on

Mac and is a single mouse click to compile and upload.

The terminal window also works well enough for my

needs.

 

See this article from Technoblogy if interested:

Using the Arduino IDE Without Cores

 

--Mike

 

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It would quite tricky to program AT90 series with a USBAsp using Arduino IDE, I bet. But with Atmel Studio or linux avr-gcc, you can do the upload in 2 or even 1 click, it is compatible with all types of boards.

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tunahankaratay wrote:
To the person who recommended me to use Arduino: I hate Arduino. I have started electronics with them (yeah, I am 14 y.o and started 3 years ago, sorry for my stupid questions). But it does not encourage you to do anything in low level, nor understand how it works.

 

You probably noticed that when people here say "Arduino", they actually mean the cheap Chinese Arduino clones. They are sold for ridiculous prices that barely cover material costs, so we like them.

You don't need to use the Arduino libraries (yeah, some of them are crapy and slow, others, I'm told, are ok) or even the Arduino IDE. You can generate your program using whatever you like, assembly, C, C++ or a mix of them all.

The real key to programming them is the program called "avrdude". Learn to use it, it's an important skill.

 

OTOH, since you are a young student, maybe you could order from microchip a sample of their most modern AVR, the mega4809, which is available in DIP package: https://www.microchip.com/wwwpro...

This is a more complex MCU than the mega328, with peripherals that are already halfway to a 32 bit MCU like an ARM. I think it would be fun for you to explore.

 

BTW, don't forget that to program any MCU that doesn't come with a bootloader, you will need a programmer. I see you are using USBAsp but you can also use an Arduino with the proper firmware to act as programmer for all MCUs mentioned in this thread so far.

Last Edited: Mon. Jul 15, 2019 - 12:50 AM
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I don't like the enormus size of these boards. They come in the size of packages like mega16 but it actually consists of a mega328p. I also don't like the ICSP header of those boards blocking you a little bit. Yeah, I use USBAsp, but my solder wire touched the pins of the mega88p in it and now it is blown up. I'm using the ArdıinoISP sketch till I order a new one. I know avrdude. I am actually a linux enthusiast and I have used avr-gcc and avrdude both on terminals. I use the GUI AVRDUDESS on Windows, but also on the cmd. By the way, are avrdude and avr-gcc the standart by Atmel or just a really well designed fan work? It would surprise me if a big company like Atmel decided to make an open source software on Linux (you know, every company hates linux and open source stuff).

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tunahankaratay wrote:
are avrdude and avr-gcc the standart by Atmel or just a really well designed fan work?
Both avrdude and GCC are FOSS done by volunteers. While Atmel has very little involvement in avrdude (though in the update history I think you will see some contributions from Atmel engineers) they do a lot of the development work in avr-gcc (mainly because they are the ones designing new AVRs and they want to be sure the compiler will have support for them when new models are released) so there are really two versions of the AVR variant of GCC in existence. One is the one maintained by the Free Software Foundation / GNU developers. That is the truly "open" one and would be what you might call in Git/SVN terms "master". But then Atmel have a development branch that they maintain separately. While the core version in that branch may lag the main GNU development (Atmel at 5.4.0 while mainline is 9.1) the fact is that in some senses it is a "better" version as it generally has support for the next 20..50 devices that the GNU master does not. Atmel have a GPL obligation to publish their changes though they sometimes seem a little lax about doing this. But if you are happy to just take the prebuilt Windows or Linux builds that Atmel make then they probably represent the "best way to get avr-gcc". Slowly but surely the changes that Atmel make are pushed (by Atmel) back onto the GNU master branch.

 

So those on Linux have several choices. Often the "repo maintainer" will just pull the latest GCC sources and build all the different versions of GCC for Linux. That will include avr-gcc built off GNU master. So a Linux user can just apt-get (or dpkg or yum or whatever) the prebuilt package. Or they could pull an even more recent copy from GNU source and build that. Or they could pull the "atmel version" (ie 5.4.0 or whatever) from GNU then apply the Atmel device support packages from their GPL published sources. Or they can just get the prebuilt .tar.gz that Atmel create in their standard build process (probably the best option in fact).

 

Note that Atmel are now Microchip and they seem to be making an "XC8" version of avr-gcc for use in MPLABX (which is dual/triple platform).

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tunahankaratay wrote:
It would surprise me if a big company like Atmel decided to make an open source software on Linux (you know, every company hates linux and open source stuff).

 

It's not that surprising, because this is complex software (especially gcc) that would cost a lot of money to develop from scratch. So the strategy of some mega-corporations is to get that open source software, then try to "close" it somehow, usually with proprietary add-ons and/or constant updates to keep users out of ballance.

You can see the whole process in action with google and the android os.

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tunahankaratay wrote:
(you know, every company hates linux and open source stuff)
AdaCore is one of several (many?) exceptions (Red Hat is obvious smiley

Dual-licensing is one way to obtain a revenue stream (AdaCore - GPL, GMGPL or GNAT Modified GPL); another is value-added services (CodeWeavers - CrossOver and Wine)

 

GNAT Reference Manual: Pragma License

GNAT Pro Comparison - Adacore

Red Hat officially acquired by IBM

The Wine Project | CodeWeavers

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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El Tangas wrote:
You can see the whole process in action with google and the android os.
and Chrome OS.

The Linux desktop is in trouble | ZDNet

Linus Torvalds looks to Chromebooks and Android for the future of the Linux desktop, while Linux Mint developers aren't happy with each other.

by 

April 8, 2019

...

ChromeOS - Gentoo Wiki

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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mega88PA also has an automotive form though not in DIP :

  • 16MHz
  • 2.7V-5.5V
  • -40C to 125C

QFP, ATmega88PA-15AZ

QFN, ATmega88PA-15MZ

via ATmega88PA - 8-bit AVR Microcontrollers

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller