Series vs Parallel Kw/Hr

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SAY WHAT?!! surprise

 

 

One of my best friends is of the belief that running high power machines one after the other for the same interval each time,  uses less electricity than running them at the same time for the same period of time.

 

I laughed and beg to differ, which started quite the argument.

 

Heres how this went.

 

He has a large room air conditioner and a pool pump.  The pool pump draws about 15 amps, the room air conditioner draws almost exactly the same amount(based on the spec sticker) 14.5 amps.  Close enough.

 

So his wife comes home and turns on both the pump and the A/C.  No problem, they are on separate circuits.  My buddy gets home and has a fit, saying that its costing more money to run them at the same time as opposed to 4 hours of the pump, and then another 4 hours of the A/C.  his wife tells him hes insane(actually thats not what she said but this is a F.O.W. so I cannot repeat the actual words used).

 

Somewhere in all of this the comment"Go ask Jim!" was spewed.

 

To play neutral(no pun) for both phases(pun intended) I asked my buddy if he was referring to the peak/off peak times our power provider has, as thats the only way I could see this costing more.  WE also have a tiered usage charge rate that is also confusing as hell but forget about that.

 

He responds that it has nothing to do with the charges, but the amount of power used.

 

He is adamant that running two 15amp loads(30amps total for both A/C and the pump) for 4 hours uses more electricity, than running one 15amp load for four hours(the A/C), shutting it off, then the other 15amp load(the pump) for another four hours.  I explained that you are still using the same amount of power in both cases.  When both are running you use 30amps continuously for four hours or 16Kw.  When run one after the other, the AC unit will draw about 2Kw/hr for 4 hours or 8KW, and the pump will do the same giving you 16KW for the full 8 hours.  My math may not be exact, but its close enough for explanation

 

My friend told me I have no idea what I am talking about and that he heard about this on the radio or something.....

 

I told him I agreed with his wife....he's nuts(I too used words that cannot be posted in a F.O.W.)

 

Just thought some may find this amusing.

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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That (power consumption "issue") is a fairly common misconception. The point and the understanding it misses is the difference between power and energy. I can remember, years past, taking General Physics as a lowly University Freshman (studying physics, no less) and being really confused about power and energy, and puzzling over why this abstract thing called energy is even important. Now, I cannot understand why the idea of energy is not better understood since it is SO important when, for example, you deal with the relative merits of different kinds of batteries. [Don't get me started on 9V batteries!] 

 

Its also a fairly common misconception that what you hear on TV or radio MUST be the gospel truth. In this case, its a matter of double whammy, I think.

 

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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ka7ehk wrote:
Now, I cannot understand why the idea of energy is not better understood since it is SO important when, for example, you deal with the relative merits of different kinds of batteries.

 

For Techies and engineers yes, but.....

 

 

I left out that my friend is NOT a technically inclined person by any means.  Neither is his wife, and she admits it, but could do simple math to see her beloved is misguided.

 

ECJ

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Try using a water analogy.  2 gph for 1 hour is 2 gallons.  1 gph for 2 hours is 2 gallons.  Convert to liters as necessary.

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best friends is of the belief that running high power machines one after the other for the same interval each time,  uses less electricity than running them at the same time for the same period of time.

Your good friend is very likely correct....more power loading leads to higher currents.  Losses (wire heating) follow the current squared.  So doubling your current quadruples the ohmic losses.  Likewise, cutting the current in half, ideally reduces this loss by a factor of four.    Eventually the wires in your walls will make a nice heater.

 

Of course with the higher losses, the voltage falls, so the current drawn is somewhat lowered (motors are not so simple in that regards).  In any case, the squared effect wins the loss tug-of-war.

 

A constant power load is more fun (such as in a 100% efficient supply driving a constant load)...as the voltage sags, the current must increase to maintain power (negative resistance).  Of course increased current causes more sag, which require more current, which creates more sag....

Imagine an skyscraper full of 300W PC's!

 

 

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Tue. Jun 25, 2019 - 07:43 PM
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ka7ehk wrote:
Its also a fairly common misconception that what you hear on TV or radio MUST be the gospel truth.

Or read on the Internet!

 

Maybe this will help, .....

  Demo it this way, have the wife give you a single $20 bill(both running at the same time), have the husband give you two $10 bills(once at a time),  ask them which gave you more money? 

Now run fast!!! smiley

 

Jim

 

 

Click Link: Get Free Stock: Retire early! PM for strategy

share.robinhood.com/jamesc3274
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avrcandies wrote:
Eventually the wires in your walls will make a nice heater.

 

The Pump and the A/C are on separate circuits so thats not a concern about heating.

 

avrcandies wrote:
.more power loading leads to higher currents.

By how much?  both units draw 15 amps @120vac.  I highly doubt there is enough to see a difference on ones electric invoice.

 

avrcandies wrote:
Your good friend is very likely correct....

I doubt it.  But I will tell him you do. smiley

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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 I highly doubt there is enough to see a difference on ones electric invoice.

Well, that may be, but the wiring waste is there & goes up quickly with the square of the current.   Of course, at the main house connection it is all added up, so you are not doubling or halving the total usage (unless everything else in the house is shut off) .

I think you owe your friend his favorite brewskie  angel

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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avrcandies wrote:
I think you owe your friend his favorite brewskie  

 

Nope. 

 

@ki0bk

THATS funny!

 

ECJ

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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avrcandies wrote:
but the wiring waste is there & goes up quickly with the square of the current. 

True, but they are on separate circuits, so the heating loss is the same in each circuit.

 

FOJ 

Click Link: Get Free Stock: Retire early! PM for strategy

share.robinhood.com/jamesc3274
get $5 free gold/silver https://www.onegold.com/join/713...

 

 

 

 

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avrcandies wrote:
but the wiring waste is there & goes up quickly with the square of the current.

 

If the wiring waste rises THAT quickly, I think there is a much bigger problem.

 

Do you by chance have a weekly radio program by chance? cheeky

 

ECJ

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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True, but they are on separate circuits, so the heating loss is the same in each circuit

The wires from the pole & to the fusebox don't see it that way, so yes the wasted power will be higher (albeit smaller impact if looking at totals) than running longer time at a lower current. It's just P=I*I*R  (neglecting VA power factor)

Say the rest of the house was drawing 40 amps...so you with the equip on draw 55, or 70 amps, 55^2=3025, 70^2=4900, these factors differ by 62%, but only apply over any common length prior to the breaker box (so the effect is probably pennies)

 

 

Most of the energy loss occurring on the distribution system is the Ohmic loss resulting from the electric current flowing through conductors. The energy loss is due to the resistance in the conductor. The amount of loss is proportional to the product of the resistance and the square of the current magnitude. Therefore, losses can be reduced by reducing either the resistance the current magnitude, or both. 

 

This had some interesting tidbits:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/04/f22/QER%20Analysis%20-%20Opportunities%20for%20Energy%20Efficiency%20Improvements%20in%20the%20US%20Electricity%20Transmission%20and%20Distribution%20System_0.pdf

Reconductoring: Reconductoring a transmission line implies replacing the existing conductors with newer conductor designs consisting of better properties or design features. ..... Conductors of larger diameter have smaller per unit resistance than those of the same material but smaller diameter. Therefore, reconductoring a line with larger-diameter conductors can reduce the loss.

 

 

Do you by chance have a weekly radio program by chance? 

I have a USB mic & expired Ham license...that's as far as I go in broadcasting angel​​​​​​​

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

Last Edited: Tue. Jun 25, 2019 - 09:22 PM
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avrcandies wrote:
so yes the wasted power will be higher

 

THe argument is that running both at the same time is costing significantly more than running each one by itself.  To That I say nonsense.

 

avrcandies wrote:
(so the effect is probably pennies)

Which you have confirmed....somewhat.

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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To resolve the argument you need cold,hard facts. I gather there’s a thing called an electricity meter which is used to determine how much energy was used and thus what you’re charged. Tell your friend to do some measurements for both serial and parallel usage. My guess is the difference will be negligible but your friend will be able to quantify that.

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Kartman wrote:
Tell your friend to do some measurements for both serial and parallel usage. My guess is the difference will be negligible but your friend will be able to quantify that.

 

My friend cannot change a light bulb...literally.  I was posting more as a venting than to create concepts for proof.  The difference indeed would be negligible as our meters are analog thus its a guess of sorts.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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avrcandies wrote:
Your good friend is very likely correct....more power loading leads to higher currents.  Losses (wire heating) follow the current squared.  So doubling your current quadruples the ohmic losses.  Likewise, cutting the current in half, ideally reduces this loss by a factor of four.    Eventually the wires in your walls will make a nice heater.
My thought, too

 

jgmdesign wrote:
The Pump and the A/C are on separate circuits so thats not a concern about heating.
ki0bk wrote:
True, but they are on separate circuits, so the heating loss is the same in each circuit.
Yes, but:

avrcandies wrote:
wires from the pole & to the fusebox don't see it that way, so yes the wasted power will be higher
This.

avrcandies wrote:
so the effect is probably pennies
That.

 

jgmdesign wrote:
THe argument is that running both at the same time is costing significantly more than running each one by itself.  To That I say nonsense.
Yup.

 

Kartman wrote:
Tell your friend to do some measurements for both serial and parallel usage. My guess is the difference will be negligible but your friend will be able to quantify that.
I'd guess the difference in losses will be in theory measurable, but will be very small compared to the loads themselves.  So small, in fact, that conducting (pun not intended) a meaningful experiment would require careful measurements of both loads and the service, and repeated tests controlling for any other factors.

 

So >>technically<< yes, but practically negligible.  I call rubbish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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It's been a while since I've read the NEC, but the local electrical requirements specify a maximum allowable voltage drop. If you've got too much voltage drop, that means the wire is heating up and to much would begin to affect the insulation rating, so by law, the actual losses are constrained. But that doesn't mean much to a lay person, so demonstration may be necessary to convince said person.

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jgmdesign wrote:

Kartman wrote:
Tell your friend to do some measurements for both serial and parallel usage. My guess is the difference will be negligible but your friend will be able to quantify that.

My friend cannot change a light bulb...literally.  I was posting more as a venting than to create concepts for proof.  The difference indeed would be negligible as our meters are analog thus its a guess of sorts.

 

Yup, whilst the i^2*r transmission losses do go up, the finite power impedance also means the available voltage drops, and that scales (we assume here linear) 

So, if we take some nice round numbers of 2500 watts, 10A, 25 om load, and a 4% total distribution loss per 10A, or 10V drop across a 1 Ohm network

 

and thus we get system numbers like 

 

 (2*10)^2+2*((250*0.96*0.96)^2)/25  = 4646.7328Wh for two at once

 2*(1*10^2+((250*0.96)^2)/25)          = 4808Wh for sequential
 

Or, checking this simpler calc on Spice, to take second order effects into account we get the more exact 

 18.5185*250      = 4629.625Wh for two at once 

 9.61539*250*2  = 4807.695Wh for sequential
 

Thus on an absolute cost basis, he is actually (slightly) better off running both at the same time, but note the 'useful output' is also down, so the peak water flow, or the peak aircon, will be down slightly.

If he then has to run for 3.846% longer, for the same end result, there is no energy saving at all :)

 

 

 

 

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I think you guys have been off with respect to the "Time" constant.

 

I bet the guy has in his head that he will be running the pump and AC for a total of 8 hours. either by running them separately for 4 hours, or having both of them on at the same time for 8 hours.

In that case he is utter totally correct. This as his wife turned on both at the same time and letting them run until ' done'. compared to switching 1 on for a certain period of time then switching that off turning the other on for a period of time. In that case he is totally right. So first get the "time sorted" and the rest is just simple math.

 

you could make an analogy to filling up a pool with 1 or 2 hoses.....

generators burning fuel......

 

I hope he is not subscribed to "electroboom". Or that he has been watching Mythbusters as they have done some electrical experiments too were they made things confusing by mixing up things and drawing conclusions from that. 

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In the UK electricity bills and meter readings are in kW-hours

 

I have always accepted Ohms Law, Kirchoffs Law, arithmetic, multiplication, ..., gravity, ...

 

But I understand that many Americans believe in 7-day Creation, Flat Earth,  Fake News, ...

There is no point in arguing with them.

 

It should not upset your friendship.   Simply avoid these topics.

 

David.

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In brief, the global efficiency in case of running both for 4 hours is less than running each of them for 4 hours separately (as noted on #5).

On the other hand and because of the lower efficiency, the KW.Hour counter will run slower if we accept that the power of the A/C (cooling/heating) and of the pump (m3/sec) reduces with voltages lower than nominal.

 

For these two facts, the company of electricity prefers that wives run their high power machines one after another whenever possible indecision

  

 

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Most induction motors will increase current as the voltage falls. So you will probably use the same or less power but with more losses.
.
Just avoid conflict with your friends and neighbours.

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david.prentice wrote:
In the UK electricity bills and meter readings are in kW-hours

 

Same here.

 

david.prentice wrote:
I have always accepted Ohms Law, Kirchoffs Law, arithmetic, multiplication, ..., gravity, ...

Same here

 

david.prentice wrote:
But I understand that many Americans believe in 7-day Creation, Flat Earth,  Fake News, ...

Were not THAT dumb, but there are some in the population that prove otherwise.

 

david.prentice wrote:
There is no point in arguing with them.

But it's fun sometimes.

 

david.prentice wrote:
It should not upset your friendship.

Nope, it wont.

 

david.prentice wrote:
Simply avoid these topics.

Instead post them here!! wink

 

KerimF wrote:
For these two facts, the company of electricity prefers that wives run their high power machines one after another whenever possible

I'll keep my first reaction to myself.  But I have to correct you on the 'wives' part.  In my house I am the one that runs high power machines(work, and appliances) more so than the woman that lives here too.

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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jgmdesign wrote:
david.prentice wrote:

But I understand that many Americans believe in 7-day Creation, Flat Earth,  Fake News, ...

Were not THAT dumb, but there are some in the population that prove otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve

For those with Netflix:

https://www.netflix.com/watch/81015076

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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So while we are in THAT mood... chicken or egg first?

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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valusoft wrote:

So while we are in THAT mood... chicken or egg first?

That's easy. Order both from Amazon. See which one arrives first.

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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There is actually one scenario where jgmdesign's best friend would be totally correct. His power company could be charging him on a Maximum Demand tariff where he could incur a penalty for exceeding his contacted Maximum KVA load, or perhaps Block Rate Tariff where the first block of a charging period is higher than subsequent blocks. These are unlikely however, because these weird & wonderful tariffs are primarily for commercial premises.

 

http://www.electricalbasicprojects.com/tariff-types-in-power-system-tutorial/

 

https://www.bbaenergy.co.uk/news/maximum-demand-kva-why-should-you-be-interested
 

 

Last Edited: Thu. Jun 27, 2019 - 10:01 PM
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We have a tiered pricing(gouging) system here where you pay a certain amount per KwH for 'X' amount of KwH, then another price per KwH for the next 'X' above the first 'X' and so on.  

 

How does this work?

 

Lets say I am charged $0.25/KwH for the first 100KwH used.  THats $25.00

For the next 100.001 to 200KwH I pay $0.20 per KwH used.  THats  $20.00

The next 200.001 to 300KwH I pay $0.15 per KwH used.        Thats $15.00

After a certain point they flat charge you from there on.

 

So if I used a total of 300KwH that would be a bill of $60.00.  I am generalising as the numbers are actually higher, but hopefully you get the point.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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So, the title is a tad bit misleading.

I think the topic is really about sequential vs parallel rather than serial vs parallel appliance usage...

 

Just wanted to stir the pot a little bit more.

 

JC

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DocJC wrote:
about sequential vs parallel rather than serial vs parallel

 

Isn't serial communications essentially bytes of data moving sequentially?  It's just how you word it...

 

DocJC wrote:
Just wanted to stir the pot a little bit more.

Congrats!  smiley

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Just out of interest what do folks pay for electricity anyway? I got a bill the other day and it's apparently costing me £108/month - that is $137/month.

 

(everything but our (oil) heating is operated electrically).

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Average DAILY usage during our February was 4.83kWHr at average daily cost of AUD$2.53 = US$1.77 (today's rate).

 

But our average DAILY gas bill for May (heating and cooking) was AUD$6.01 for average usage of 255.59MJ.

 

@Cliff... so your electricity account is about double mine.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 28, 2019 - 10:03 AM
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My electricity bill is £43.91 Direct Debit per month.

I actually use £35-£40 in a month.    So I am always in credit.

 

I have Oil heating and hot water.

Cook with electricity.    Electric kettle.   Often turn on electric heater in my office.   I never worry about lights being left on.

 

Surely Geordies are immune to the cold.

Irish ladies are hardy too.   (at least to rain)

 

David.

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 28, 2019 - 10:07 AM
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I am on something the local extortionist(utility) call 'Balanced Billing', where the utility monitors my average usage and uses funny math to compute my bill so I get the same amount each month and at the end of my billing year I pay if there is an overage, or I get a credit if they owe me.....SPOILER ALERT...I have NEVER received a credit.  I always owe.

 

The monthly comes out to $180.00/month USD.

 

I will see if I can pull up the KwH prices, but I know I pay one of the highest, if not the highest in the USA.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Just out of interest what do folks pay for electricity anyway? I got a bill the other day and it's apparently costing me £108/month - that is $137/month.

We pay 3.148200 cents per kWh plus a bunch of delivery "riders" ... So our $40.20 electric usage charge gets to be $146 with the add-ons!!!

Duke energy says:

In order for you to save money, an electric supplier must offer you a price lower  than 5.70 cents per kWh for the same usage that appears on this bill. 

 

All these add-on remind be of our cable TV/internet....taxes & fees probably double it.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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My bill ranges between about $60.00 USD and $80.00 USD. Heating and cooking are natural gas, and I don't have air conditioning.

 

Last month's rates were $0.090809 USD per kWh for tier 1 (the first 600 kWh) and $0.109770 USD per kWh for tier 2. In addition to usage charges I have a base monthly charge, an energy exchange credit (federal dams in the area), "other" charges, and state taxes.

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avrcandies wrote:

Just out of interest what do folks pay for electricity anyway? I got a bill the other day and it's apparently costing me £108/month - that is $137/month.

We pay 3.148200 cents per kWh plus a bunch of delivery "riders" ... So our $40.20 electric usage charge gets to be $146 with the add-ons!!!

Duke energy says:

In order for you to save money, an electric supplier must offer you a price lower  than 5.70 cents per kWh for the same usage that appears on this bill. 

 

All these add-on remind be of our cable TV/internet....taxes & fees probably double it.

Same here, I use about $70 worth of electricity but after all the extra charges I pay about $180.

We have transmission charges, rider charges, access charges, administrative charges.

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Same here, I use about $70 worth of electricity but after all the extra charges I pay about $180.

We have transmission charges, rider charges, access charges, administrative charges

I'd be happy to review your electric bill each month to check if all the charges are correct.   It's only $12.95/mo (plus tax & convenience fee) if you sign up today. 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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Since 2016 I do -23euros per month, before that it was about 27euros a month.

But normally it seems that the cost is about 21ct per kWh, that is including a tax of 14 cent.