HV interface not exsist on some micro

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hi

Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface ( for reset fuse-bits )

( for these microcontrollers ), When we made fuse-bits wrong, how can we reset them?

This topic has a solution.

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

Last Edited: Sat. Jun 29, 2019 - 01:27 AM
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Looks to me like HV will work!

 

Jim

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Umm you might want to try doing just a bit of reading/research before posting your next question....

 

 

How is the above NOT "high voltage" programming if it involves applying 12V (just as HVPP and HVSP do)?

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SNAP! ;-)

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The Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface. They only have a TPI (Tiny Programming Interface).

source

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

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md3848 wrote:
The Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface.

As shown above (twice), they do, unless the data sheet is wrong!   Go back and read it (the datasheet) again!

 

Jim

 

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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The Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface

Yes but the reason chips have HV is so that if the Reset pin is "turned off" (RSTDISBL) there is still a way to contact them - this involves applying +12V to the Reset pin. So all of High Voltage Serial Programming (HVSP), High Voltage Parallel Programming (HVPP) and TPI high voltage reset recovery all involve the exact same thing of applying +12V to reset. So it may not be called "HVSP" or "HVPP" but these brain dead TPI chips do have a High Voltage recovery mechanism to recover the situation where RSTDISBL has been used to disable the Reset pin.

 

In fact it's even easier in these brain dead Tiny chips than it is in others (which require special signals/protocols). The Tinys only require the application of +12V followed by "normal" TPI.

 

But anyway, it's a bit of a mystery why anyone would choose to start exploring the wonderful AVR chips by studying these truly terrible cut down ones that have all kinds of limitations that make them much more difficult to use than normal Tiny/Mega chips!

 

The only reason these "brain dead" AVR exist is purely a question of cost. No one would choose them if they didn't have to but if you are making 5 million identical microwave ovens and you can use one of these $0.50 chips where otherwise you might have chosen a much easier to use $0.60 chip then you save $500,000. But that's about the only real reason to limit yourself with such dreadful chips!

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 28, 2019 - 01:16 PM
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ki0bk wrote:

md3848 wrote:
The Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface.

As shown above (twice), they do, unless the data sheet is wrong!   Go back and read it (the datasheet) again!

 

Jim

 

sorry but I do not see the datasheet that Say That this micro supports "HVPP or HVSP"

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

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md3848 wrote:
sorry but I do not see the datasheet that Say That this micro supports "HVPP or HVSP"

Both posts #2 and #3 above come DIRECTLY from the datasheet!!!!

 

Jim

PS: I'm out!

 

(Possum Lodge oath) Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

"I thought growing old would take longer"

 

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Are you deliberately being obtuse? Seems like you are trolling??

 

Which bit of:

 

 

do you not understand to be "HIGH VOLTAGE"??

 

Of course the 4/5/9/10 have a high voltage programming mode. If they gave it a fancy name like "HVTPI" would that satisfy you??

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i say correct? ( Are these two sentences correct? )

 

The Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface "But it has a similar interface" ( TPI )

 

TPI is low-voltage ( for programing micro / flash / fuse / lock  -  reset-pin 0v ) and high-voltage ( for reset fuse   -   reset-pin 12v )

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 28, 2019 - 01:44 PM
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No one would choose them if they didn't have to 

We use one within our disposable sensor (using ADC pins), which spits out the data down a cable to a main unit with a "real" micro.  It's ok for that limited kind of application (program is about 70 lines of assembler), but a bit of a pain to physically work on. 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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It appears that md3848 is right on this one. These "tiny" Tiny chips DO NOT have HVPP nor HVSP interface. That is because those chips do not have SPI program capability for HVSP (or enough pins to make HVPP -  high voltage parallel programming - work) so  they cannot have those protocols. However, there IS a high voltage mode for TPI that gets around the problem of reprogramming when the reset pin disabled. 

 

However, this answer (and the way the question evolved) is misleading given the subject line of the thread. YES, these chips DO have High Voltage programming. NO, its not HVPP or HVSP but it IS something else. They DO have "high voltage interface" which was the "question" posed in the subject line. So me3848 is wrong on that point. But md3848 is right that they don't have HVPP or HVSP.

 

The core of this "problem" (if there is a problem) is simply that these chips ONLY offer TPI programming interface. Not sure what else one would expect for such limited-capability devices.

 

Jim

 

 

Until Black Lives Matter, we do not have "All Lives Matter"!

 

 

Last Edited: Fri. Jun 28, 2019 - 05:21 PM
This reply has been marked as the solution. 
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ok -  Tiny4/5/9/10/20/40 devices do not have an HVPP or HVSP interface ( But it uses a similar HV method )

 

=======

 

Now I see that The micro I mentioned below does not have any HV method - for what?

All XMEGA

ATmega808(28/32pin)
ATmega809(48pin)
ATmega1608(28/32pin)
ATmega1609(48pin)
ATmega3208(28/32pin)
ATmega3209(48pin)
ATmega4808(28/32pin)
ATmega4809(48pin)

 

 

 

I searched the following phrases in the datasheet, but I did not find anything :

1) HVSP

2) High Voltage Serial Programming

3) Serial Programming

4) High Voltage

5) 12v laugh

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

Last Edited: Sat. Jun 29, 2019 - 02:11 AM
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Why would you expect them to have/need HV?

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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meolsen wrote:

Why would you expect them to have/need HV?

xmega do not need any hv programing method? ( atmega series need hv method )

 

( I am writing a post for my blog - I have to read about all the methods of programming and debugging, and... )

mahdi damirchilu, my blog : dmf313

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Think about it, what issue does HV solve on the older megas? Are those solutions needed for XMEGA?

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

 

The postings on this site are my own and do not represent Microchip’s positions, strategies, or opinions.

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ka7ehk wrote:
It appears that md3848 is right on this one. These "tiny" Tiny chips DO NOT have HVPP nor HVSP interface.

 

This dead horse needs more flogging.

ka7ehk wrote:
That is because those chips do not have SPI program capability for HVSP (or enough pins to make HVPP -  high voltage parallel programming - work) so  they cannot have those protocols. However, there IS a high voltage mode for TPI that gets around the problem of reprogramming when the reset pin disabled. 

OK, tell me why TPI is >>not<< serial.  Apparently for Jim, SPI-like is more "serial" than UARTC-like.  Do those chips have a HV mode?  Does it use a serial protocol? 

 

http://www.boardfree.kr/isp/flip...

 

The TPI physical layer handles the basic low-level serial communication. The physical

layer uses a bidirectional, half-duplex, serial receiver and transmitter. It includes
serial-to-parallel and parallel-to-serial data conversion, start-of-frame detection,

frame-error detection, parity-error detection, parity generation, and collision detection.

Perhaps if OP would tell us WHY it is important that it isn't called HVSP then it would be easier to take the tempest out of the teapot.

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.