I expect I'll be Blynched, but here goes anyway... It's all the same happy bunch of pals company now, right?
An old client of mine has a bunch of PCBs that I designed several hundred years ago(OK, 2004), before I saw the light, and they contain PIC16f84 chips.
He is hoping to slightly "repurpose" these. My problem is that I don't seem to have any tools for PIC programming(either "coding" or flashing), and wondered if someone could advise me on a low-budget way to progress.
Doesn't this new $15 "Snap" thing from Microchip do "everything"? (and when you finished with it for PICs you could use it for sensible micros!)
Doesn't this new $15 "Snap" thing from Microchip do "everything"? (and when you finished with it for PICs you could use it for sensible micros!)
Looks to be the very thing! I just need to find something else I need to bump the Farnell order up to free delivery amount!
I guess this would be a good opportunity to download the latest all-in-one PIC and AVR version of MPLAB-X.
This could be weird. It seems like a lifetime ago that I wrote this PIC16F84 code in assembler.
You will need MPLAB X , a C compiler, and a pickit4 or a snap.
MC is moving to include some AVR's in MPLAB X so may be a good time to get familiar with the IDE anyway. 
Jim
You will need MPLAB X , a C compiler, and a pickit4 or a snap.
MC is moving to include some AVR's in MPLAB X so may be a good time to get familiar with the IDE anyway.
Jim
The code will be short and simple enough that I can do it in assembly, I think. Don't really want to worry about a C compiler for PIC, when I doubt(hope?) I'll never use one again.
John
simple enough that I can do it in assembly
Isn't C just a macro assembler? 
Have fun with it!
Jim
You will need MPLAB X , a C compiler, and a pickit4 or a snap.
PIC16F84 :
Tested : MPLAB REAL ICE, MPLAB ICD 3, MPLAB PICkit 3, MPLAB X simulator, MPLAB XC8 v1
Beta : none
PIC16F84A :
Tested : same
Beta : MPLAB PICkit 4, MPLAB ICD 4
MC is moving to include some AVR's in MPLAB X so may be a good time to get familiar with the IDE anyway.
MPLAB X IDE | Microchip Technology
Come Join Us (MPLAB Now Supports AVRs) | AVR Freaks
edit : PICkit™ 3 In-Circuit Debugger
MPLAB X v5.15 device support PIC16F84 : Tested : MPLAB REAL ICE, MPLAB ICD 3, MPLAB PICkit 3, MPLAB X simulator, MPLAB XC8 v1 Beta : none PIC16F84A : Tested : same Beta : MPLAB PICkit 4, MPLAB ICD 4
MPLAB Snap is a work-in-progress
MPLAB snap to atmega328pb program and debugWIRE | AVR Freaks
MPLAB PICkit 4 has Vpp (12V reset for some AVR, 8.5V PIC MCLR)
MPLAB® Snap vs. MPLAB® PICkit™ 4 - Developer Help
edit :
via Development Tools | Microchip Technology
via Hardware Tools Comparison - Developer Help
... a C compiler, ...
on sale March'19 : MPLAB XC8 Compiler PRO Dongle License
MPLAB- XC Compilers | Microchip Technology
edit: What's New in MPLAB® XC8 v2.0 - Developer Help
It's all the samehappy bunch of palscompany now, right?
Some USB PIC are an I/O improvement over USB megaAVR (no crystal for full-speed USB, auto-baud UART)
An instance :
Pololu USB AVR Programmer v2.1
PIC18F25K50 - Microcontrollers and Processors
If you can wait for slow shipping, cheap PICKIT3 clones from China will do the trick, they're about $12 last time I checked.
Thanks all.
I think I just threw out my MPLAB ICD 2 a month or so ago. Always the way!
I wrote this PIC16F84 code in assembler.
And do you still have hair??
mega328 to program a number of PICs (though not PIC16F84)
Microchip PIC Arduino based programmer | Hackaday.io
via point 3 in Myths and legends of PIC microcontrollers | jaromir.sukuba | Hackaday.io
No. Bert Lynch from Z cars.
Actually it is a contraction of "Web lynched" to parallel "Web log" as in Blog. I only invented this word today, so your confusion is understandable.
Was Bert Lynch married to Bet Lynch?
Was Bert Lynch married to Bet Lynch?
Not to my knowledge, but then they're both fictitious, so anything's possible.
That's a value if the PICkit 3 clone is of good quality as MPLAB PICkit 3 have significant hardware and software complexity.
I've lost more hair since I started using C.
Here are my conclusions:
Assember help hair growth on the scalp.
C helps hair growth in ears and nostrils.
That's a value if the PICkit 3 clone is of good quality as MPLAB PICkit 3 have significant hardware and software complexity.
Yeah.
I won't be going that route.
Designing and building my own PicKit 3 for the sake of a few dozen old PCBs seems like overkill. And of course there's no way I'd buy a clone, when the real thing is available for only 5 or 6 times as much...
I'm fairly certain we all used to program PIC16F84s with an LPT bit-banging process, back when.
Just googled it. I think LPT was the standard method. Not sure I can be bothered this time around. Even though I do have a proper LPT port on a desktop and a laptop, the last time I tried to bit-bang either, I seem to remember it was not so easy with current Windows.
John,
I've got a couple of genuine PickKit 3s sitting here. You are welcome to borrow one for a couple of weeks if it helps.
Just googled it. I think LPT was the standard method. Not sure I can be bothered this time around. Even though I do have a proper LPT port on a desktop and a laptop, the last time I tried to bit-bang either, I seem to remember it was not so easy with current Windows.
More common I think was an RS232 port. The JDM programmer. AFAIK it still works fine on Win 7 or 10 if you still have a real RS232 port. Most motherboards still have them as a header - just not on the back panel.
I just recently got a paying gig for updating/fixing a huge ASM program on a PIC. I had not done any PIC ASM since the early 90s. It's pretty terrible but I still have most of my hair.
The first thing to do is ask yourself if these chips are worth it. They have ONE - ONE - ONE K of flash, along with a whopping 64 bytes of SRAM and EEPROM.
Unless you have =thousands= of these little bozos hanging around the shop, don't bother using them in any new or update design. Write them off.
It's not a new design. It's a new firmware for an existing PCB. I don't know exact quantities, but I'll simply be charging for writing new code.
John_A_Brown wrote:Just googled it. I think LPT was the standard method. Not sure I can be bothered this time around. Even though I do have a proper LPT port on a desktop and a laptop, the last time I tried to bit-bang either, I seem to remember it was not so easy with current Windows.
More common I think was an RS232 port. The JDM programmer. AFAIK it still works fine on Win 7 or 10 if you still have a real RS232 port. Most motherboards still have them as a header - just not on the back panel.
I just recently got a paying gig for updating/fixing a huge ASM program on a PIC. I had not done any PIC ASM since the early 90s. It's pretty terrible but I still have most of my hair.
That's generous, but I'll probably buy one. I like to have the tools to hand.
John
There are a bunch of newer pics that I think are pin compatible with the 16f84. More memory, fancier peripherals, enhanced architectures, low voltage programming, support in the current programmers, and even cheaper...
PIC16F1826, for example (? I didn’t check very carefully.)
John,
Perhaps the SNAP will work well for PICs.
It is a nice little PCB, and is very inexpensive.
I think, however, it is still worthless for programming AVR's, in spite of what the MC web site would have one believe.
After using a clever work-around to get the MPLab X to connect to the SNAP, it is worthless for programming a Mega328P or 328PB as it resets the micro's Fuses to use the internal RC clock at 1 MHz.
One of the two, the IPE or the IDE, specifically states it can't program the Fuses, while the other one should be able to, but I can't make it work.
So any board I program, in spite of having the desired external Xtal on the board, and having set the Fuses with an AVR ISP mkII, is trashed back to 1 MHz when programmed with the SNAP, with no way to reset the Fuses correctly, (with the SNAP).
Anyway, your current need is to program a PIC.
Just be aware that until MC upgrades their MPLab X software it isn't a viable option for programming AVRs.
(Hijacked Rant Thread on this topic: Here.)
JC
Edit:Typo
@ westfw
I'm sure you're right, but these PCBs have the chips soldered on.
John,
Perhaps the SNAP will work well for PICs.
It is a nice little PCB, and is very inexpensive.
I think, however, it is still worthless for programming AVR's, in spite of what the MC web site would have one believe.
After using a clever work-around to get the MPLab X to connect to the SNAP, it is worthless for programming a Mega328P or 328PB as it resets the micro's Fuses to use the internal RC clock at 1 MHz.
One of the two, the IPE or the IDE, specifically states it can't program the Fuses, while the other one should be able to, but I can't make it work.
So any board I program, in spite of having the desired external Xtal on the board, and having set the Fuses with an AVR ISP mkII, is trashed back to 1 MHz when programmed with the SNAP, with no way to reset the Fuses correctly, (with the SNAP).
Anyway, your current need is to program a PIC.
Just be aware that until MC upgrades their MPLab X software it isn't a viable option for programming AVRs.
(Hijacked Rant Thread on this topic: Here.)
JC
Edit:Typo
