AtTiny26 problems reading the signature! ISP & HVPP

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AtTiny26 problems reading the signature! ISP & HVPP.

 

Bought 100 pieces.

ISP does not see.
STK 500 confidently reads the signature 0x3f3f3f 

tested on 10 pieces randomly. Work control sees everything correctly!

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Everything will be fine!

Last Edited: Mon. Oct 15, 2018 - 09:25 AM
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Etnola wrote:
Work control
No idea what that is?

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STK 500 - OK!
ISP - Ok!
tested on control MS Attini26

***

 

How to fix the wrong signature ?!
Atmel Studio 7 allows you to record or fix it?
Photo MC can attach.

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Etnola wrote:
How to fix the wrong signature ?!

For a new chip, you will need to slow down the ISP bit rate to below 250kHz.  What ISP bit rate are you using?

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Also, sometimes a shorter ISP cable can make a difference( not so much at low speeds).

 

 

If possible, be descriptive with full sentences...you're lacking a lot of details:

 

STK 500 - OK!
ISP - Ok!
tested on control MS Attini26

 

How do you expect help?   ISP - Ok!  What exactly do you mean? You also say ISP does not see

Which is it? 

.....help given problem solved!!

 

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.

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Photo MC

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Everything will be fine!

Last Edited: Mon. Oct 15, 2018 - 06:55 AM
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Wire length to MC from STK500 - 10 Cm.

AtTini 26 can be erased in 30% devisom use Fuse bit doctor! 

70% - does not help and he.

The frequency changed from 125 kHz to 3,xx MHz - stable result ==3f3f3f

???

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Etnola wrote:

AtTiny26 problems reading the signature! ISP & HVPP.

 

Bought 100 pieces.

ISP does not see.
STK 500 confidently reads the signature 0x3f3f3f 

tested on 10 pieces randomly. Work control sees everything correctly!

 

Go on.   You have bought 100 twelve year old chips!   The ones in your photo look as if they have been unsoldered.

 

Buying used chips is risky.    Buying old chips is risky.

 

If you are lucky they might be from surplus unused boards.     Place in clamshell and program with your STK500.

I would test your STK500 with HVPP on other chips first.     The cables are tricky.   The STK500 is probably old.  Jumper cables are worn / loose.

 

I hope that you did not pay too much money.    Tiny26 would not be a wise chip for a new design.

 

David.

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Do you really have an SSOP to DIP adapter for mounting them in your STK500 ? Otherwise how are you connecting the programmer? Does the same equipment work OK if you use an existing "known good" t26 from your collection?

Last Edited: Mon. Oct 15, 2018 - 08:14 AM
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All chips are 6 years old! Yes old, but not soldered in the tape.
Photo attached for identification, maybe someone such a party was with similar problems.

 

I have three devices: STK 500, AVR JTAG, Fuse bit doctor - workers!

Atmel Studio 7  (Atmel Studio 6.1) &  AVR_dude  - workers!

The result is stable == 3f3f3f.  Еxternal quartz does not help, as well as changes in frequency.

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Last Edited: Mon. Oct 15, 2018 - 08:53 AM
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And programmers read the signature!

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There is a good SOP-20 adapter, and 20 pieces are checked for control. The result is one and stable.

 

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Result after Fuse bit doctor ~ 20% MC - Ok, Repair signsture Tiny26 == 0x1E9109

Photo below 

 

 

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Perhaps in Atmel Studio 7 you can write a user signature?

Where to get the file?

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As these are second-hand chips, and they are 12 years old (date code 0622 = 22nd week of 2006), might it not be that they have been previously programmed and RST has been disabled along with SPI programming?

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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Brian Fairchild wrote:

As these are second-hand chips, and they are 12 years old (date code 0622 = 22nd week of 2006), might it not be that they have been previously programmed and RST has been disabled along with SPI programming?

 

Perhaps the question is how to write them quickly and correctly signatures?
Judging by the answers from Atmel Studio (AVR_dude), the chips are working, but they are clean, even chip signatures are seen. But other registers FF, which leads to a Atmel Studio error (possible overflow)...

 

Question how to fix?

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Etnola wrote:

Perhaps the question is how to write them quickly and correctly signatures?

 

AFAIK there is no facility for a user to write a chip's signature. But I am confused by what EXACTLY your problem is...

 

Etnola wrote:

Judging by the answers from Atmel Studio (AVR_dude), the chips are working, but they are clean, even chip signatures are seen. But other registers FF, which leads to a Atmel Studio error (possible overflow)...

 

So are the signatures correctly read or not?

 

 

Also, it is generally a bad idea to put chips that have solder on their legs into a chip adapter. It might bend the fragile legs of the adapter making future connections unreliable.

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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Soldered chips on the adapter!
There are no problems with the panel!

 

Judging by the attached screen (below) an attempt to read the Lock bit.

the Visual studio is waiting for the signature of the chip:  0x1E9109,  receives: 0x003f3f3f

 

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It's not a question of correcting the signatures - that is not the problem. It's simply that when the ISP/HVSP connection does not work right the first thing that shows that is that the readback of the signature fails. So you need to solve whatever the communication issue is. 

 

As they appear to have been desoldered for all you know the original user may have deliberately damaged the programming system in some way (high voltage pulse into one of the programming pins to deliberately damage transistor gates) as a protection to prevent code being read from them (lockbit protection itself is not very secure). So it could be that you may never make them work.

 

If I was you I'd stop wasting time on these and just buy some modern AVRs and get on with having some fun programming the things.

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Have you tried a chip erase command using the HVPP?

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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clawson wrote:

It's not a question of correcting the signatures - that is not the problem. It's simply that when the ISP/HVSP connection does not work right the first thing that shows that is that the readback of the signature fails. So you need to solve whatever the communication issue is. 

 

As they appear to have been desoldered for all you know the original user may have deliberately damaged the programming system in some way (high voltage pulse into one of the programming pins to deliberately damage transistor gates) as a protection to prevent code being read from them (lockbit protection itself is not very secure). So it could be that you may never make them work.

 

If I was you I'd stop wasting time on these and just buy some modern AVRs and get on with having some fun programming the things.

*****

 

100 PSc ---?

 

 

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[quote = Брайан Фэрчайлд]

Вы пробовали команду стирания чипа с помощью HVPP?

[/ Цитата]

 

==>Yes!

 

 

~~ 20% of cases helped Fuse bit docktor. Here's how to raise the rest?

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Etnola wrote:

Soldered chips on the adapter!

 

What do you mean by that?

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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Brian Fairchild wrote:

Etnola wrote:

 

Soldered chips on the adapter!

 

What do you mean by that?

Brazed - tested on transitional boards!
Not soldered in the panels !.
***
The problem at the beginning of the post and on the screen!

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Good advice to toss those chips in the trash & spend $10 on some new chips, or cheapo nano boards.   Why suffer for 2 more months trying to wake these chips up?

 

Then you can get on with your project and enjoy your time.  I still occasionally use the tiny26 (my first avr), or really its cousin, the tiny261.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.

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I assume your fuse doctor is HVSP?  If the fuses have been changed, a chip erase with HVSP is not sufficient.  You'll also need to change the fuses back to factory default.  Does your fuse doctor do that?  Steps:

  1. HVSP chip erase
  2. HVSP write lfuse to 0xE1
  3. HVSP write hfuse to 0xF7
  4. HVSP chip erase again

 

After all these steps, are you still unable to recover these t26?

 

avrcandies wrote:
Good advice to toss those chips
Granted, but given OP's native language, chips may be hard to come by.

 

EDIT:  Note that the default fuses in the datasheet (mentioned above) do not match the default values listed for the t26 at http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/.  That site claims the default lfuse to be 0xF9.  That fuse will select the 'External Low Frequency Oscillator', while also setting the SUT fuses to an undefined 'reserved' value.  Further, the site claims that those fuse values select 'PLL Clock', which is also incorrect.

 

To be clear, the correct default fuse values are lfuse:0xE1, and hfuse:0xF7.  This is straight from the datasheet.

 

Which 'Fuse doctor' are you using?

/EDIT

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

Last Edited: Tue. Oct 16, 2018 - 05:13 PM
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The Tiny26 is 20pin. So I suspect that it is HVPP.
.
The STK500 should be able to HVPP any chip that is not fatally damaged.
Be realistic. Chips unsoldered from surplus unused boards might be 100% recoverable.
.
If they were salvaged from faulty equipment or boards just tipped into an oven they might be permanently damaged.
.
David.

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david.prentice wrote:
The Tiny26 is 20pin. So I suspect that it is HVPP.
Ah yes.  Same principal.

david.prentice wrote:
The STK500 should be able to HVPP any chip that is not fatally damaged.
Yes but the correct procedure must be used.  HVPP can 'do anything', but if the chip is both locked and is fused in such a way as to prevent ISP (RSTDISBL, SPIEN, CKSEL), then a chip erase may not be sufficient.  Fuses need to be restored to sane values via HVPP >>after<< the chip erase via HVPP.  The second chip erase I suggest above will guarantee EEPROM gets erased as well, in the event EESAVE was programmed.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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joeymorin wrote:

I assume your fuse doctor is HVSP?  If the fuses have been changed, a chip erase with HVSP is not sufficient.  You'll also need to change the fuses back to factory default.  Does your fuse doctor do that?  Steps:

  1. HVSP chip erase
  2. HVSP write lfuse to 0xE1
  3. HVSP write hfuse to 0xF7
  4. HVSP chip erase again

 

After all these steps, are you still unable to recover these t26?

 

STK500 not support - HVSP, supports only ISP & HVPP

 

****************

All chips are not overheated! possibly clean from the factory and the old batch...

 

 

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Rubbish. STK500 supports HVSP. How else would it HV program the low pin count Tinies e.g. Tiny25
.
Your Tiny26 has 20 pins. So it uses HVPP.
.
Have you determined whether these chips have been mistreated or carefully removed from unused boards?
Or even unmounted chips that had been programmed by the Distributor?
.
Follow Joey's advice. He meant HVPP not HVSP. Check connections carefully.
Soldering SMD onto adapter to do HVPP is easy. Unsoldering afterwards is hard work.
A clamshell is only reliable with chips that have NEVER been soldered.
.
David.

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Your Tiny26 has 20 pins. So it uses HVPP.

I believe it uses regular ISP, no high voltage needed, unless maybe the clock has been mis-set & need re-established.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.

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But what if they have used RSTDISBL? As OP owns an STK500 the most guaranteed way to get in touch with the chips is going to be HVPP I think. He already said he's got an SSOP to DIP adapter to plug them into STK500 and as they are not "in circuit" there's presumably no issues about +12V floating around?

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We read the topic from the beginning!

With STK500 no problem works fine with: AtMega8, 48, 32, AtTiny26 (contlol MC SSOP-20), 13A, 2313.

 

The problem is with this party in 100 pieces, were packed in tape, not soldered!
20 Pieces - Resurrected with a device - Fuse bit doctor!  

Not the first time, but they signatures erased in the factory 0x1E9109!

___

I can do nothing with the rest!

Contact, speed, panel SSOP, soldered - checked!

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Everything will be fine!

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"Packed in tape" means what?
If you mean that they have never been soldered, say so.
.
There is something strange if you bought 12 year old chips.
.
If you have only got 20 good chips from a batch of 100, I hope that you bought them cheap.
.
Fuse Doctor is nothing more than HVPP program that does what Joey suggested with a STK500.
If STK500 works 100% for HVPP m8, m48, m32, t26, t2313 and HVSP for t13a you obviously know how to set up ribbons and jumpers..
.
If chip fails with STK500 I would bin it. If you only have 20% success from a batch, I would not recommend using them in a heart pacemaker or nuclear bomb.
.
David.

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david.prentice wrote:
If you only have 20% success from a batch

If the supplier will not take them back, or replace them with good stock then don't use them again and let others know who they are.

 

Jim

 

Click Link: Get Free Stock: Retire early!

share.robinhood.com/jamesc3274

 

 

 

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You haven't answered my question:

joeymorin wrote:
Which 'Fuse doctor' are you using?

 

 

david.prentice wrote:
If chip fails with STK500 I would bin it
I agree.

 

However, if the OP insists on his quest, the following may be of help:

http://legacy.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=140556

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/bootloader-on-smd-atmega328p-au/msg268938/#msg268938

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/how-bloody-hard-can-it-be-to-program-an-avr-chip/msg270545/#msg270545

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/how-bloody-hard-can-it-be-to-program-an-avr-chip/msg270205/#msg270205

http://legacy.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=208216#208216

 

But the going will not be easy.  I'd say cut your losses and toss the ones that aren't responding.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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    If you only have 20% success from a batch, I would not recommend using them in a heart pacemaker or nuclear bomb.

I was reading some article about the nuclear triggering switches & system---that it has some defense dept requirement to have at most 1 chance in one billion of failure.

 

To me, that seems rather low.   I have worse odds of winning the lottery! 

 

edit: found it

 

The following are safety criteria design requirements for all U.S. nuclear weapons:

 

Normal environment: Prior to receipt of the enabling input signals and the arming signal, the probability of a premature nuclear detonation must not exceed one in a billion per nuclear weapon lifetime.

Abnormal environment: Prior to receipt of the enabling input signals, the probability of a premature nuclear detonation must not exceed one in a million per credible nuclear weapon accident or exposure to abnormal environments.

One-point safety: The probability of achieving a nuclear yield greater than four pounds TNT equivalent in the event of a one-point initiation of the weapon’s high explosive must not exceed one in a million.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.

Last Edited: Thu. Oct 18, 2018 - 12:17 AM
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[Цитата = joeymorin]

Вы не ответили на мой вопрос:

 

joeymorin писал (а):

Какой «врач-предохранитель» вы используете?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=...

 

 

david.prentice писал (а):

Если чип не сработает с STK500, я бы его

 

Согласен.

 

Однако, если ОП настаивает на своем квесте, может помочь следующее:

http://legacy.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=140556

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/bootloader-on-smd-atmega328p-au/msg268938/#msg268938

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/how-bloody-hard-can-it-be-to-program-an-avr-chip/msg270545/#msg270545

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/how-bloody-hard-can-it-be-to-program-an-avr-chip/msg270205/#msg270205

http://legacy.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=208216#208216

[/ Цитата]

 

Is very similar!
The question remains how to read and change this area!
Have another device ?! Question links to the author!

 

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You seem to think I was asking what a fuse doctor was.  I know.  I was asking >>which<< fuse doctor you are using.  Specifically, I want to know what software it uses, so I can examine it myself.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Photo Fuse bit doctor

 

Actual Ver 2:10 Offline reset fuse.

Damp can send...

Above gave links to the signature programmer. The question is where to find a link to it?

 

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That picture tells me nothing.  Post a link to the software.

 

Etnola wrote:
The question remains how to read and change this area!
As the links I posted tell you, this is undocumented.  You will have to invent it yourself.  Good luck!

 

Truly.  Throw these in the garbage.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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joeymorin wrote:

http://mdiy.pl/atmega-fusebit-do...

 

Full progect.

***

But it still does not help in 70 pieces.
Above were links to another project, but I have not yet found the ends.

Throw pok ane option ...

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Well, the source code for the firmware isn't available, only the .hex files, and they're quite big.  I'm not going to try to reverse engineer that.

 

I'd suggest you try to confirm that the firmware you are using follows the steps I outlined in #29:

  1. HVSP chip erase
  2. HVSP write lfuse to 0xE1
  3. HVSP write hfuse to 0xF7
  4. HVSP chip erase again

But I will say again:  Throw away the 70.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"Wisdom is always wont to arrive late, and to be a little approximate on first possession."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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That picture tells me nothing.

It tells me that there aren't any resistors in series with the LEDs and no bypass caps and possibly AVCC is not connected, but that's just a guess.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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It also looks like two electrolytics on what is probably a 7805.

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Nowadays there's really no excuse for not having silkscreen on the top & bottom to tell what is going on.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.