AVR Freaks

Tools, In-System Debuggers and Programmers, Windows 10, virtual machine

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Posted by Bignoob: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 01:03 PM

Hi all, I have been away for some time

I dusted off my AVR stuff, I have built a H bridge inverter and I need to drive it, I have an existing program that I will modify but thats a different story

I have AS7 installed on a windows 8 laptop, I use an AVR Dragon to program, it uses a socket soldered onto the dragon with links over to program a DIP ATMega328PU and its working like a dream, like it always has, no problem at all ever

I have a Windows 10 laptop from work and I installed AS7 on there a few days ago, for love or money I can not get it to read the device signature

I get this error message

Failed to enter programming mode. ispEnterProgMode: Error status received: Got 0xc0, expected 0x00 (Command has failed to execute on the tool)

Unable to enter programming mode. Verify device selection, interface settings, target power, security bit, and connections to the target device.

I have read many threads and instructions tried many many times at all frequencies but it simply doesnt work on the Windows 10 laptop but it works without fault on my Windows 8 laptop with exactly the same programmer wiring and chip

Does anyone have any idea what could cause this, its taken a ridiculous amount of time to get nowhere

Thanks in advance

Tags:

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 01:32 PM

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Posted by gchapman: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 02:53 PM

WinUSB was reworked from Windows 8.1 to 10; Windows 10 has off and on USB issues.

Atmel Studio 7 moved from Jungo to WinUSB in 7.0.1416 for AVR Dragon and such.

try

Windows 10 - a different build within a version, or, a different version
Atmel Studio 7 - try the most recent build

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Posted by Bignoob: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 03:02 PM

Thanks for your reply

Because its a work laptop I dont think I can change the windows version its out of my control

I thought I had the most recent AS7 as I only installed a few days ago, its version 7.0.1931

I feel a bit lost as to what I need to actually do

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Posted by clawson: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 03:25 PM

Wonder if it would be worth trying to run one of the more stable versions of Windows (7 etc) in a VM then install AS7 there? Win 10 really is an atrocious pile of nonsense.

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Posted by Mr.Paul: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 03:30 PM

I was unable to get my Dragon to work even remotely reliably with Win 10. I've since gotten a little luckier with getting windows 10 to work, some, with some other AVR stuff (Atmel-ICE, STK600) and haven't retried the dragon. But even then the timeouts are so long, and I've gotten so tired or pressing Wait 1 more minute, that I'm probably going to give Install-AS7-In-A-Win7-VM a whirl shortly, which would be a shame, but it is just too much pain on Win10. For me, anyway.

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Posted by Bignoob: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 03:37 PM

Its a work laptop Cliff, installing a virtual machine seems like an unbelievable amount of hassle just to get a programmer working

Up until now I thought windows 10 was OK, I have only been using it 7 months or so I still hate windows 8 to this day its garbage

jgmdesign

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Posted by jgmdesign: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 03:51 PM

clawson wrote:

Win 10 really is an atrocious pile of nonsense.

According to the Evil Empire its the wave of the future! Most stable and versatile OS to Date. There will be no Win 11 ans so on. Win10 forever! Rah Rah (HURL)

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

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Posted by clawson: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:11 PM

My own Win10 laptop has been hidden in a cupboard for the last 2+ years. I am deliberately not using it until someone announces that Win10 finally works. I will not be holding my breath for that event!

(more worrying for me is that because of the ending of Win7 support our corporate laptops are going to be forced to Win10 at some point - so I'm guessing that is going to be 2-3 weeks of lost work when it happens - right now I just cannot afford to let it happen!)

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:13 PM

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Posted by Bignoob: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:19 PM

I cant believe its this bad to be honest

Are you guys seriously telling me the only way to get my dragon working on is to use a different version of Windows i.e. its impossible to get it working on Windows 10?

What about my other programmers, I have an ATmel Ice and an AVR ISP Mk2 (IIRC) do these suffer the same fate

Its unbelievable

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:20 PM

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#10

Posted by david.prentice: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:33 PM

I have a Win10-64 desktop and a Win7-32 laptop and a Dragon. Other readers have different PCs.
If you quote your OS and AS7 version, someone can verify or dispute your problem.
.
Life is much simpler if we can compare notes.
.
David.

Greg_Muth

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#11

Posted by Greg_Muth: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 04:56 PM

I just programmed an XMEGA-A3BU Xplained using an AVR Dragon without issue.

I am running:

The AVR Dragon shows:

EDIT: forgot this one:

Greg Muth

Portland, OR, US

Xplained/Pro/Mini Boards mostly

Make Xmega Great Again!

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:00 PM

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/atmel-studio-7-doesnt-start-no-error-message#comment-2512736

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#12

Posted by gchapman: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:09 PM (Reply to #9)

AVR Dragon and Windows 10 solved by older Windows 10 though thread's last post mentions anti-virus.

Atmel Backend very very slow....

by Mr.Paul

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/atmel-backend-very-very-slow

Consider an Atmel Studio clean (patch, delete, uninstall, re-install) if your instance of Atmel Studio is inconsistent (Atmel Studio and Visual Studio "might" be compatible)

IIRC, the following is the most recent Atmel Studio clean :

Edit : typo

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:12 PM

skeeve

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#13

Posted by skeeve: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:16 PM

Bignoob wrote:

Are you guys seriously telling me the only way to get my dragon working on is to use a different version of Windows i.e. its impossible to get it working on Windows 10?

I am using a dragon with W10 and AS7.

Do not remember the incantations.

I do remember that because of USB issues one cannot use avrdude and AS7 on USB-controlled programmers.

Quote:

What about my other programmers, I have an ATmel Ice and an AVR ISP Mk2 (IIRC) do these suffer the same fate

I've used an atmel ice.

Iluvatar is the better part of Valar.

https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/another-win10-rant-frustration-part-2?page=2#comment-2467891

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#14

Posted by gchapman: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:32 PM (Reply to #3)

Bignoob wrote:

Because its a work laptop I dont think I can change the windows version its out of my control

Most large operators have an internal IT group that can usually configure your instance of Windows 10 to make applications become functional (iow IT does configuration control); that's less so for SMB.

Medium-sized operators usually have an external IT organization; small operators are DIY or buy service from an MSP.

Microsoft serves RTM builds of Windows 10 for all versions; SMB can start with an RTM build then sequence the updates to identify a functional update.

SMB - small-to-medium business

MSP - Managed Services Provider

RTM - Release-To-Manufacturing

Windows 10 recovery :

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#15

Posted by Mr.Paul: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:36 PM

Bignoob wrote:

Are you guys seriously telling me the only way to get my dragon working on is to use a different version of Windows i.e. its impossible to get it working on Windows 10?

What about my other programmers, I have an ATmel Ice and an AVR ISP Mk2 (IIRC) do these suffer the same fate

It clearly works for some people. For others, like me, it sometimes works. I was fighting it really hard, went back to 1709 (another thread) and it worked better, but the dragon still fought me pretty hard sometimes. I was fed up with rebooting. I switched to Atmel-ICE. Didn't work at all; well, once, when it firmware upgraded, then not at all. I re-installed AS7, being very careful to really scrub. Still no dice with the ICE. I got fed up, decided to go with a virtual machine, moved windows back to 1803 (as I prefer it). Wait, now the ICE works! Though it takes at least 2 or 3 minutes to come up when I select "Apply" on the Device Programming window... but once Apply works, I can program etc no problem. But the time delay is really irritating. And sometimes it is like 5 minutes (several pushes of the wait 1 more minute). I'm not even really convinced that going 1803 did it; I don't seem to be able to do anything deterministic that changes the outcomes.

I've tried a lot of configuration changes, no real difference.

Now clearly it works flawlessly for some people, or at least well. So there has to be some hardware differences or the like that aggravate things. MicroChip likely doesn't have many people on it as it looks like their focus is elsewhere for toolchain, which is unfortunate. So maybe it will get better, or not. Or maybe your machine will like you. If you have a good backup you can always try and restore from backup if you aren't happy.

As for VM: If you keep your VM lean, with only AS7 in it, you can probably keep it relatively small.

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#16

Posted by jgmdesign: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:36 PM

Bignoob wrote:

What about my other programmers, I have an ATmel Ice and an AVR ISP Mk2 (IIRC) do these suffer the same fate

No, The ICE works just fine. I have also used a Dragon on my Win10 machine as well. My ISPMKII I have not used in a while but I would think It works.

As already noted the version of Studo and the version of Windoze may be an issue. Most of us have moved on from the Dragon as it was notorious for just quitting on you.....maybe yours has elected to go to the great silicon sanctuary in the great beyond...I dunno.

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown

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https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows-10/release-information

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#17

Posted by gchapman: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 05:59 PM (Reply to #6)

Bignoob wrote:

Up until now I thought windows 10 was OK, I have only been using it 7 months or so

Windows 10 versions 1703 and 1709 are somewhat stable; version 1803 isn't stable (some are having success with Atmel Studio 7 on 1803)

Delay installing any Windows 10 update, for any version, for a few weeks or a month (updates are corrected after release or an update's problems are identified)

The above is not applicable for your Windows 10 work laptop (it's managed by ones who know how the ones at Microsoft operate and know Microsoft QoS)

Bignoob wrote:

I still hate windows 8 to this day its garbage

Windows 8.1 is the Windows with the greatest QoS; Windows 8.1 security and quality updates are almost always functional.

Windows 10 - delay security and quality updates, defer functional updates (iow avoid moving from the current version to the next version until have to or a version goes EOL)

Windows 7 - usually delay security and quality updates though most operators don't (if it's non-functional then simply restore from a system restore point)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4009470/windows-8-1-windows-server-2012-r2-update-history

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#18

Posted by david.prentice: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 06:44 PM

Please provide information like Greg_Muth did in #11.

Then you will probably get worthwhile advice.

Pointless unsubstantiated claims about Windows, Dragon, phase of the Moon, ... get you nowhere.

David.

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#19

Posted by Mr.Paul: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 08:06 PM

When someone says "X doesn't work for me" I'm not sure what they would do (or why, for that matter) to substantiate that claim.

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#20

Posted by david.prentice: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 08:30 PM

They would quote their hardware version, software version, schematics, ...
.
Others can replicate and/or provide a solution.
.
This is one of the advantages of Arduino. Problems can and are solved from every corner of the world.
.
When I first joined Avrfreaks there was very little "known" hardware e.g. STK500. It was very unlikely that anyone could (or would) attempt to build or debug your problem.
.
Regarding the OP. If a fellow punter has got identical hardware, OS version etc and the Dragon works: it means that the OP has a good chance of resolution.
If fellow punters have the same problem: It means we can report a substantiated bug report to Microchip.
.
David.

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 08:31 PM

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#21

Posted by avr-mike: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 08:39 PM

Though this probably won't help with an employer-owned machine, I helped my son build a computer last year. We initially installed Windows 8 and could not get it to work at all. Upgrading to Windows 10 failed as well. Installing Windows 7 was successful and we could run applications, but as soon as the 4000 updates started installing the machine got messed up.

After a week or so of the pain of installing, reinstalling, updating, I finally decided to try upgrading the motherboard firmware since the machine was unusable anyway and even as scary as they make upgrading sound it couldn't make the situation worse. Well after the upgrade, which went surprisingly smoothly, everything worked! We could install Windows 7, 8 or 10 reliably and have settled on Windows 10 since he only uses it for games. No problems since.

--Mike

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#22

Posted by Mr.Paul: Thu. Aug 2, 2018 - 10:14 PM

david.prentice wrote:

They would quote their hardware version, software version, schematics, ... .

Sure, that would be useful. That's data, and it is often useful.

"Unsubstantiated claim" is a pejorative term used when you doubt someone and are calling into question their conclusion. It suggests that the reporter is being in some way disingenuous or dishonest.

I've read through every thread about AS7 and Windows 10 I could find and I'm sorry to say there is very little solid advice because when it works, it works, and when it doesn't there has been very little success correcting it, so there seems to be very few people who have had it happen and fixed it, leading to few people who have working advice.

I'm still poking (yesterday it was trying turning off power management for USB to make sure the internal chips aren't put to sleep) and hope I don't get stuck in win 7 land. I finally just got clear of it professionally and personally!

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#23

Posted by Bignoob: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 09:21 AM

I was away at the weekend so didnt have time to update this thread

The laptop is Windows 10 Pro 64bit version 1709 OS build 16299.125

Running on an i7-7700HQ with 8GB of RAM

AS7 7.0.1931

The tool info is

AVR Dragon
Debug host   127.0.0.1
Debug port   50724
Serial number   00190005067A
Master Firmware Version   7.27
Slave Firmware Version   7.27
Hardware Version   17

Regards

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#24

Posted by david.prentice: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 11:32 AM

My Dragon is:

AVR Dragon
Debug host               127.0.0.1
Debug port               61760
Serial number            00A20000339C
Connection               com.atmel.avrdbg.connection.mchp
Master Firmware Version 7.27
Slave Firmware Version   7.27
Hardware Version         16

The Dragon worked fine with debugWIRE on a m328P target on my Win10-64 Desktop PC (Home Edition) AS7.0 build 1931.

I doubt if there is much difference between Pro-64 and Home-64. But there will be other readers with the Pro-64 Windows.

In a similar thread I used JTAG. I can try PDI if you like. I do not often use the Dragon because it is much SLOWER than the ATMEL-ICE. The Dragon's main virtue is that the JTAG header is 2.54mm rather than the tiny 1.27mm modern connector.

Wait for a few more reports. Then re-install AS7 and re-install the Dragon

David.

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#25

Posted by Bignoob: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 11:59 AM

I prefer the Atmel Ice for boards I have designed where you connect the 6pin header

In this instance I am programming a throughhole uC and its nice being able to put it into the socket I soldered onto the dragon and play around

Why would reinstalling AS7 make a difference?, surely it would be just the same as it was a week ago

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#26

Posted by gchapman: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 12:45 PM (Reply to #25)

Bignoob wrote:

Why would reinstalling AS7 make a difference?, surely it would be just the same as it was a week ago

Several threads here where an Atmel Studio clean solved the issue; re-install is the last step of a clean.

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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#27

Posted by david.prentice: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 12:50 PM

It seems utterly crazy to put chips onto the Dragon. But hey-ho, if that is what you want to do.
The whole point of in circuit serial programming is to program on the target pcb.
This was revolutionary when the AVR first came out.
.
In an ideal world all Microsoft and all Atmel/Microchip software would never have any bugs.
The Internet would never fail and you would get Apple Pie for tea every day.
.
In the real world it is worth re-install if Gigabytes of complex software spring a leak.
.
David.

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#28

Posted by Bignoob: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 01:02 PM

Theres nothing crazy about it David

I have an inverter drive which uses a through hole chip on a PCB i personally etched, theres a lot of wires and things connected and I know if I disconnected the wiring to reprogram the board then its highly likely that it would go wrong I struggle to remeber what I hads for lunch this thing was connected together years ago now!

I have done a fair bit of development work with a raw processor on the dragon it works a treat

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#29

Posted by clawson: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 01:55 PM

ISP is such that it should be able to co-exits with other circuitry that might be attached to the same ISP pins. There's probably something wrong in the circuit design if you think it necessary to go disconnecting all kinds of things each time you want to reprogram. If that really is the case you might want to consider if a bootloader in the AVR might be a "better" route for getting code into it?

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#30

Posted by Bignoob: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 02:49 PM

It should and can Cliff, the board I made a number of years ago and I was just a noob, in my infinite wisdom I only put a single row header next to the pins of the DIP package so I can only connect one thing at a time

I wish I had put a 6pin header to connect an ISP but I didnt, you live and learn!

Bootloaders are something I have been aware of for some time but quite what it does is a bit of a mystery to me it certainly seems like you need to be a programming guru to do that stuff!

Last Edited: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 02:52 PM

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#31

Posted by avrcandies: Mon. Aug 6, 2018 - 03:17 PM

Bootloaders are something I have been aware of for some time but quite what it does is a bit of a mystery to me

Take a look at optiboot...it is ready for you!

Wonder what Microchip/atmel is doing to address all of these windows install issues? Surely, they must be aware of them (maybe time to request a support ticket)

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever. I look forward to being able to predict the future!

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#32

Posted by Bignoob: Tue. Aug 7, 2018 - 09:24 AM

I reinstalled AS7

I get the same error as before

Its not looking good is it, what a joke!

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#33

Posted by Bignoob: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 10:54 AM

I think its time to officially give up

I have installed, reinstalled. Repaired tried updating drivers

So far nothing has took me one step closer, it is unbelievable

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#34

Posted by Bignoob: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 11:55 AM

Progress!

I uninstalled the atmel USB stuff from add remove programs

Uninstalled the dragon deleting the driver

Reinstalled and updated driver to 42.0.1.0

The tool connects and programs but only with a USB 2.0 port

I have no idea the implications of deleting the Atmel USB stuff

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#35

Posted by clawson: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 11:56 AM

Other threads here have suggested a recent Win10 update was responsible for breaking AS7's connectivity. Have you looked at rolling back the Win10 rather than concentrating on AS7 reinstallations?

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#36

Posted by david.prentice: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 12:26 PM

I would be pretty certain that there are members with Dragon, Win10 and USB3 ports.
I have reported that Dragon, Win10 and USB2.0 works fine.
.
I bet that Bignoob has both types of USB port on his PC.
It would be very useful to Microchip to get feedback if they can replicate Bignnob's experience..
An individual whinge will not get much response. Evidence from multiple Dragon owners will be noticed.
.
David.

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#37

Posted by Bignoob: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 12:31 PM

Considering I am not using AVRs for work and the fact I am new here I dont feel comfortable tinkering with Windows

If I knew which update broke the connectivity I would consider it but altering Windows for the sake of it doesnt feel right

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#38

Posted by david.prentice: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 12:52 PM

Just use your Dragon with a USB2.0 port.

Wait for reports from other Dragon owners.

I would not expect Windows users to fix Microchip/Microsoft problems. Just report them.

It is up to Microchip to ensure that they are following documented Windows rules.

It is up to Microsoft to not b*gger everything up. i.e. behave their own rules.

David.

jgmdesign

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#39

Posted by jgmdesign: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 01:06 PM

The Dragon is not USB3.0 to begin with so even though a USB3.0 host is supposed to support older versions, this is not always the case. I am not sure if the Dragon is even 2.0.

Long story short....If its working and you know it....don't mess with it!

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?" - Lee "theusch"

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-) - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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#40

Posted by Bignoob: Wed. Aug 8, 2018 - 01:25 PM

Working is maybe a stretch

I just had to uninstall it and update driver again because it reverted to its naughty behaviour

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#41

Posted by Bignoob: Thu. Aug 9, 2018 - 08:27 AM

Right back to square one today

Its stopped working and what I did previously doesnt work now

WTF!

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#42

Posted by alvarojoseaa: Tue. Aug 28, 2018 - 01:11 AM

I'v been working with W10, Dragon and AS7 for 2 years. Stoped for some months. Now I have a problem: When conect the Dragon I can read the target signature correctly. WThen I try to program the memory and receive a message error: wrong ID. The same wrong ID for ATtiny 85, Mega8 and Mega16: 0x00000102

If ask the Windows to `solve problems`it anwers: this is an old device and can`t work in USB3. But the Dragon in conected to a USB2!

I have the same issue with a 3D printer (arduino). Then i think the problem is W10. Not the Dragon or AS7.

Tomorrow I will try another computer with Linux. Perhaps it will be the solution for all our troubles.