PoScope + AVR Dragon: SW conflict [solved]

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The PoScope is a budget PC-based tool including oscilloscope and logic analyzer among other things. A USB pod attaches probes or analyzer leads to the PC. The software lets you select which tool you want to use via tabs along the top of the display window.

I ordered mine and it worked fine for a few days, then mysteriously only the "Logic Analyzer" tab was visible - no more oscilloscope, which is the only tool I actually use. Of course during that time my AVR Dragon had arrived and I had installed it...

Boris from PoScope informs me this morning that you can NOT use an AVR Dragon and a PoScope at the same time - it seems to be a USB conflict. I've asked him to add this warning to his web page since I've bought this device without that knowledge and now it's useless to me.

On Car Talk they say "the cheap man pays the most". Now I have to either use two PCs or buy a real oscilloscope, which is what I should have done in the first place.

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The USB standard is robust and has not provisions for this sort of conflict. When USB devices interfere with each other, there is an error in the software. Most likely there is a problem elsewhere. In other words, the "USB conflict" defense sounds like a red herring.

Perhaps with a little bit of enticement, PoScope can correct this conflict.

--
"Why am I so soft in the middle when the rest of my life is so hard?"
-Paul Simon

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I agree with farang - with the USB spec there shouldn't be a "conflict". It does look to be me like PoScope haven't quite got there sofwtare right.

In laymans terms the USB standard is basically written so the Embedded Engineer does all the hard work so the End-User (i.e. you) can just plug and play without worrying about hardware incompatibitlites/wrong cable/etc...

I'd chase this up with PoScope.

Ben
-Using IAR (& ocasionally CodeVision)
0.7734
1101111011000000110111101101

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BenG wrote:
(...)I'd chase this up with PoScope.

Or ATMEL :). In fact, you don't know which yet.

Embedded Dreams
One day, knowledge will replace money.

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The only way that I know of that you can have a USB conflict is if both devices use the same VID PID but require different drivers.

The Dragon's VID and PID are -
idVendor: 0x03EB = Atmel Corporation
idProduct: 0x2107

You can read the PoScope VID PID using Microsoft's UVCView that you can get from: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/vidcap/UVCview.mspx

If the VID PID are the same then PoScope has done something really bizarre and illegal. If they are not the same then Boris is wrong in his assessment of the problem because there isn't a 'USB Conflict'.

Smiley

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Hi? Perhaps, there is the same chip for the USB <-> RS232 inside? Then you could try to give both of them another fixed COM-PORT (plug one in, see COMPORTS in device manager and fix it to a number you want, then take the next and do the same but with another number :-)

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> there is the same chip for the USB <-> RS232 inside?

No such thing in Atmel's devices. It's not a simple serial port adapter
only. Also, note that Atmel (correctly) uses its own vendor ID to
identify its devices, so even if the same chip (a Philips/NXP one) were
used, there should not be a "collision".

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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baer.ac wrote:
Hi? Perhaps, there is the same chip for the USB <-> RS232 inside? Then you could try to give both of them another fixed COM-PORT (plug one in, see COMPORTS in device manager and fix it to a number you want, then take the next and do the same but with another number :-)

IIRC COM port 1 is the only 'fixed' port that is associated with a DB-9 connector. All other COM ports are negotiated.

The system USB driver reads the VID PID and then assigns a driver. You can plug in as many devices with the same VID PID as you want and the driver will keep track of them and starts an instance of the device driver specified in the inf file for that VID PID. If the device driver specified in the inf file is a virtual com port driver, then that driver will negotiate with the system for one of the 255 possible COM ports. I guess the PoScope could have a driver that trys to capture a specific COM port, one that the system has already been assigned to the Dragon, but that would not only be a dumb way to write a driver, it would be hard to do and I'd suspect anyone who could do it would have brains to know better.

Now I also will guess that the PoScope software that uses the virtual com port driver itself could possibly be restricted to a limited set of COM ports (dumb, but often done) and that might be the problem. It would be easy enough to check. Plug in the Dragon and see what port it is using. Unplug it and see if the PoScope is using the same port, if so you may well have identified the problem. I'd then plug in the Dragon and check the ports again. If they are different, then the COM ports aren't the problem.

Smiley

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Boris says no refund, that he will source a Dragon and all registered users will get a fix when he has one. So I have no scope - or no Dragon, provided I get PoScope working again - for possibly months. Both devices use the Jungo driver, maybe I just need to root it out and reinstall that, but having used a Dragon I don't want to give it up.

Tektronix TDS2002B is looking pretty good at this time. But is going low-end there a mistake too?

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aeberbach wrote:
(...)
Tektronix TDS2002B is looking pretty good at this time. But is going low-end there a mistake too?

"Tektronix TDS2002B" low-end???? You should try my 20MHz analog scope!

Embedded Dreams
One day, knowledge will replace money.

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aeberbach wrote:
Both devices use the Jungo driver, maybe I just need to root it out and reinstall that, but having used a Dragon I don't want to give it up.

Ah, now >that< might be causing a problem. Maybe you should see if those folks would care to comment on possible conflicts by having two devices from two companies using their driver. They may have seen something like this before and have a suggestion.

Smiley

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Using o'scopes, I was able to purchase a "refurbished" Fluke 99B directly from Fluke. I was informed by Fluke that they don't get a lot to refurbish, but you can always check on it. I remember paying abot $1200US. That is not "cheap", but a lot lower than a new one or one of the newer 199 models.

I'll believe corporations
are people when Texas executes one.

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I've been using a TDS2002 for about two years now, and I am very glad I bought it.

Surprisingly to me, the FFT function has turned out to be very handy. The color display worth the couple hundred dollars extra.

--
"Why am I so soft in the middle when the rest of my life is so hard?"
-Paul Simon

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farang wrote:
I've been using a TDS2002 for about two years now, and I am very glad I bought it.

There's a slim chance I'm going to get some budget for all this through my employer. Now that would be nice...

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aeberbach wrote:
farang wrote:
I've been using a TDS2002 for about two years now, and I am very glad I bought it.

There's a slim chance I'm going to get some budget for all this through my employer. Now that would be nice...

I've had my TDS2012 (100MHz, Color, $1,800.00) for about two years. I am very pleased with it!

My kids pitched in and got me the printer adapter/Compact Flash attachment for Christmas. Very cool.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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aeberbach wrote:
Boris says no refund, that he will source a Dragon and all registered users will get a fix when he has one. So I have no scope - or no Dragon, provided I get PoScope working again - for possibly months. Both devices use the Jungo driver, maybe I just need to root it out and reinstall that, but having used a Dragon I don't want to give it up.

Tektronix TDS2002B is looking pretty good at this time. But is going low-end there a mistake too?


That is absolutely terrible. There is a major problem with his product, and he won't even take responsibility for it. Despicable business practice. I had been thinking about getting a USB scope - and that certainly keeps it from being considered. Though the terrible sampling rate already completely discouraged me from using it.

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I have noticed just today these thread. As I informed Adam before, we are working hard on these issue in cooperation with Atmel. Infact Adam was first person to inform us about these issue. As we do not have AVRDragon and also Atmel did not have PoScope we sent products to each other. It will not take months as resolving such issues is always priority. I hope that these cold be resolved until the end of the month.
It is absolutely untruth that I says no refound. It is possible, but I suggest Adam that he waits for new software.
As only 3 users (form near 1000) noticed us for these issue, it can not be named "major problem", but we are hardly working to solve it.
Almost 1000 users use PoScope worldwide an are happy with them. We are constantly working in improvements and new functions of software. All registered users are receiving free upgrades of software and firmware.

best regards

Boris Zalokar
PoLabs

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Quote:

As only 3 users (form near 1000) noticed us for these issue, it can not be named "major problem", but we are hardly working to solve it.

Expect a fix in 6-12 years, then ;).

Above is in jest!
- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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abcminiuser wrote:

Expect a fix in 6-12 years, then ;).

PoScope is on market from summer of 2006. Until now we released 8 software updates with major improovements or additions. And as I said before these issue is on the priority. We are always resolving problems from existing users first. It is the same if there are 3 or 500 users with problems.

best regards

Boris Zalokar
PoLabs

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Sorry Boris, you obviously didn't get my joke. I wasn't implying anything bad about your product or person.

You said you were hardly working on the problem, whose meaning in English is that you aren't working very much at all to fix the problem, instead of the intended "working hard", which means you are. I assume this is a translation error, I was pointing it out while trying (in vain!) to be funny.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Sorry, Now I understand. English is not my native language. Yes it should be working hard :)

regards

Boris

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aeberbach wrote:
Tektronix TDS2002B is looking pretty good at this time. But is going low-end there a mistake too?

I would suggest that you make sure you get the "B" model like I did (TDS2002B) rather than old stock non "B". These have a front USB port for flash drive saves etc and a USB port on the back for connection to a PC for live display or a USB printer. I had to wait a bit longer for this model but so far I am happy with it after a few months.

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Sorry if you think I misunderstood Boris, but when I explicity ask "And are you offering a refund in this case?" and you just tell me I'm going to get a free update, to me that means "no".

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We are tracked reason for issue. Sollution should be released very fast.
regards

Boris

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Have ordered a TDS2012B. Sadly no PoScope update yet from Boris.

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I Just installed my Poscope. I also have a Dragon and both are working great. I had to unplug the dragon to complete the install because the install package said "Driver in use"

But your original post says it worked well for a while then the scope part disappeared. I might not be to that point yet. Unless it has been fixed in the latest release.

I have been enjoying both my dragon and my Poscope. My poor JTAGICE-MKII that I paid good money for is just gathering dust now. I might have to dust it off if I have a conflict with the dragon and Poscope.

official AVR Consultant
www.veruslogic.com

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gr82bdad wrote:
I Just installed my Poscope. I also have a Dragon and both are working great. I had to unplug the dragon to complete the install because the install package said "Driver in use"

My order was PoScope first, then the oscilloscope part disappeared after installing the Dragon. Maybe I'll mess with it some more next time I have a clean Windows install to start with.

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New PoScope software is avaiable on www.poscope.com
It should fix the above mentioned incompatibilities.
Just download and install the demo software from our page.

best regards

Boris Zalokar
PoLabs

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Quote:

My order was PoScope first, then the oscilloscope part disappeared

Exactly the problem i encountered ,but after mailing Boris and a receiving a swift reply stating the driver had become corrupt which i rectified all is fine with the poscope.

Perhaps this is where your problems are and not in the actual hardware ?.

Stephen
Satisfied poscope user
:wink:

Codevisionavr & Avrstudio 4.18
Easyavr5A-Jtagicemk1

Call me Pedantic, But not after 9.

if Milk_Brilliant
else Codevision_Avrs==Better

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"hardly working". Maybe that's an idiom. A phrase whose meaning can't be deduced from analyzing it's words individually.

What strange creatures we humans and our languages are. Maybe we use idioms to trip up foreigners that try to use our language. :)

Or maybe not. Anyway it's hard to deduce the meaning of hardly from knowing the meaning of hard.

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I have PoScope Mega1 . But the software it's in the first stage . Nothing useful for me because I really need recording and logic analyzer capabilities . Hope I can use it in the future . Maybe next year ! :))

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Dear Yan!

I do not know what is your intention writing that message. On web page it is clearly written that these options will be avaiable as a free upgrades. So you did know that BEFORE you bought it. Recorder upgrade is finishing and will be avaiable soon.

regards

Boris

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Yes I did Know about that . But this situation is from last year and can last another year . Or not ? It could be a great product . But if you don't want to wait any longer for upgrades, buy a Basic 2 Scope. :D

I'll let you know about how thing will go from now on ! And believe me , I want to wrote only good reviews .

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I modified the title of the thread to reflect the current status.

Plons
moderator

A GIF is worth a thousend words   They are called Rosa, Sylvia, Tricia, and Ulyana. You can find them https://www.linuxmint.com/

Dragon broken ? http://aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.html for how-to-fix tips

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I was just informed by Boris that their is a new software release for POSCOPE MEGA 1 . That is good news for me . I'll give it a try .