SPLIT: Defining an Instant

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the_real_seebs
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Posted by the_real_seebs: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 06:45 AM
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awneil wrote:

Increase wrote:
I didn't realize I can destroy the sensor in an instant

(almost?) any electronic component will be destroyed "in an instant" by gross abuse like connecting its power supply backwards!

 

Is a resistor a component? :P

 

EDIT:

Split from: https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/r...

 

 

Tags:

AVR Microcontrollers, megaAVR and tinyAVR
Last Edited: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 04:33 PM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 12:08 PM
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the_real_seebs wrote:
Is a resistor a component? :P

Ha ha - yes, of course!

 

Although resistors are not sensitive to polarity (ie, have no sense of "backwards"), they will still be damaged - if not destroyed - by "gross abuse".

Probably not "in an instant" - but still probably wise to discard one that has been "insanely hot"...

 

It's semiconductor components that are most likely to be destroyed "in an instant".

 

I thought I'd said that before in this thread, but it was actually the OP's other thread: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...

 

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theusch
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Posted by theusch: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 02:54 PM
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the_real_seebs wrote:
Is a resistor a component? :P

awneil wrote:
Probably not "in an instant"

Define "instant".  A fuse blows quite quickly.  You tell me whether the time satisfies your definition of "instant".

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... [note that there is beer involved]

DC lamps ("light bulbs") aren't that common in the LED age.  But IIRC, the filament would blow "instantly" given too many watts.

 

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 03:41 PM
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I am just quoting the the OP's words of #26:

Increase wrote:
I didn't realize I can destroy the sensor in an instant.

 

So, basically, "sooner than you can realise that something's going wrong, and turn the power off".

 

Yes, you could probably destroy an average 1k, 1/8W resistor "in an instant" by connecting it directly to 240V mains - but, please, don't try this at home!

 

surprise

 

You'll be wanting me to define "gross" (sic) abuse next ...

 

cheeky

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  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 03:45 PM
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theusch wrote:
A fuse blows quite quickly.  You tell me whether the time satisfies your definition of "instant"

Generally, fuses are useless for protecting semiconductors - because the semiconductor will blow first.

 

So, yes - I guess that would qualify as "instant"

 

 

 

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  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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theusch
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Posted by theusch: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 03:54 PM
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awneil wrote:
Generally, fuses are useless for protecting semiconductors - because the semiconductor will blow first.

Did you read the quotes I was responding to?  It had to do with "is a resistor a component".  I gave two examples (or maybe one, as both are generally filaments) that I think would qualify for components.  Indeed, you define "instant" and "gross".

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 04:29 PM
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Maybe the thread should be split as its now a squabble about what an "Instant" is as opposed to the topic of the thread.

 

JIm

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 04:38 PM (Reply to #7)
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or what a "component" is ?

 

cheeky

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 04:49 PM
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awneil wrote:

or what a "component" is ?

 

cheeky

Oh for **** sake knock it off......angrylaugh

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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Brian Fairchild
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Posted by Brian Fairchild: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 05:04 PM
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Back to the question posed in the topic title...

 

"Defining an Instant"

 

 

See 'Planck Time'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pl...

#1 This forum helps those that help themselves

#2 All grounds are not created equal

#3 How have you proved that your chip is running at xxMHz?

#4 "If you think you need floating point to solve the problem then you don't understand the problem. If you really do need floating point then you have a problem you do not understand." - Heater's ex-boss

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 05:19 PM (Reply to #10)
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Probably related to the definition of, "split second": https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...

 

Top Tips:

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  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 05:32 PM
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INSTANT:Time required to go from fully functional to fully useless....

 

 

Before Andy and Lee post it:

 

awneil and theusch would probably write:

Define time

 

Define  required

 

Define fully

 

Define functional

 

Define useless

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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snigelen
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Posted by snigelen: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 06:06 PM
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Define define. smiley

No recursion allowed. devil

Last Edited: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 06:07 PM
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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 06:49 PM (Reply to #13)
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Recursive - see: recursive.

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Tue. Jan 2, 2018 - 07:43 PM
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From my old signature and added anew.

void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus 

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

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JohanEkdahl
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Posted by JohanEkdahl: Thu. Jan 4, 2018 - 04:52 PM
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You've taken quite some time to try to define "instant"..

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

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Kartman
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Posted by Kartman: Thu. Jan 4, 2018 - 11:26 PM
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Does it take less than a microsecond to make ‘instant’ coffee?

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Thu. Jan 4, 2018 - 11:29 PM
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ISTR that "instant" photos actually took several minutes ...

Top Tips:

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  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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larryvc
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Posted by larryvc: Thu. Jan 4, 2018 - 11:29 PM (Reply to #16)
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
You've taken quite some time to try to define "instant"..
It's all relative

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think" - Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick

"void transmigratus(void) {transmigratus();} // recursio infinitus" - larryvc

"It's much more practical to rely on the processing powers of the real debugger, i.e. the one between the keyboard and chair." - JW wek3

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -  Marcus Aurelius

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awneil
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Posted by awneil: Thu. Jan 4, 2018 - 11:39 PM (Reply to #19)
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Lunchtime doubly so.

Top Tips:

  1. How to properly post source code - see: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... - also how to properly include images/pictures
  2. "Garbage" characters on a serial terminal are (almost?) invariably due to wrong baud rate - see: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/serial-communication
  3. Wrong baud rate is usually due to not running at the speed you thought; check by blinking a LED to see if you get the speed you expected
  4. Difference between a crystal, and a crystal oscillator: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  5. When your question is resolved, mark the solution: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
  6. Beginner's "Getting Started" tips: https://www.avrfreaks.net/comment...
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JohanEkdahl
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Posted by JohanEkdahl: Fri. Jan 5, 2018 - 12:10 AM
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larryvc wrote:

JohanEkdahl wrote:
You've taken quite some time to try to define "instant"..
It's all relative

Absolutely!

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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jgmdesign
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Posted by jgmdesign: Fri. Jan 5, 2018 - 12:12 AM
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JohanEkdahl wrote:

larryvc wrote:

JohanEkdahl wrote:
You've taken quite some time to try to define "instant"..
It's all relative

Absolutely!

 

It's all Relative.....

 

Kinda like there being an Instance in an Instant?

 

Jim

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than attempt nothing and succeed - Fortune Cookie

 

"The critical shortage here is not stuff, but time." - Johan Ekdahl

 

"Step N is required before you can do step N+1!" - ka7ehk

 

"If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue!" - Kartman

"Why is there a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven"? A prediction of the expected traffic load?"  - Lee "theusch"

 

Speak sweetly. It makes your words easier to digest when at a later date you have to eat them ;-)  - Source Unknown

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB, RSLogix user

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joeymorin
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Posted by joeymorin: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 06:28 AM
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Is a resistor a component? :P

Define 'is'.

 

BTW, nice avatar, Jim.  I see you're continuing the theme ;-)

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

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frog_jr
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Posted by frog_jr: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 09:54 AM
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joeymorin wrote:
BTW, nice avatar, Jim.
I don't recognize East Coast Jim anymore.

I would have sworn all that hair would be pulled out by now!wink

David (aka frog_jr)

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JohanEkdahl
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Posted by JohanEkdahl: Fri. Jan 12, 2018 - 02:53 PM
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Yes, Jims avatar is traveling backwards in time. First he pulled his hair out and now his hair stands on end.

 

Or else he has a miracle cure for regaining hair - that I'd like to know of since, unfortunately, my scull has decided to traverse the time dimension in the forward direction.

 

Keeps the shampoo budget at near minimum though.. ;-)

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here. 

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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