XMega AVR ??

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#1
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Hi,

anybody heard anything about this Alien? :shock:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/NSD/ATML/Stockholders_meeting.pdf

XMega

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On page 21 it seems to indicate that the XMega series is due to be launched in 2007. I too would be interested in hearing anything about these buggers.

edit: it would seem it was originally planned for an '05 launch: http://www.atmel.com/ir/document...

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Hi,

so the XMega development goes on at least since 2005 ??

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Getting an IC design from the first drafts to full
production is nothing that happens in terms of weeks.

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Hi Jörg,

I don't expect a complex design within weeks
or months. I simply found this thing and asked
if there is any knowledge out there....

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As it is obviously not finished yet, you very likely won't
find any public description about it by now.

So if this is going to be launched in 2007, it's likely the
first design stages have been started around 2004 or so.

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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No ideas? No rumors??

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Well, I better put in a post just in case they start handing out free ones, Once bitten by the Dragon, and all that. :P

It'd be nice to have a Mega168 style uC with an inbuilt 12bit DAC :)

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The picture on page 12 is kind of interesting. It seems to have something descbived as "AVR" at the core but then has both 8-bit and 14bit ADCs, barcode, IrDA and LCD interfaces amongst other things - what device is that then?

Attachment(s): 

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Cliff,

Where did you find that picture?

Randy

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Looks like all the features a PDA needs... maybe thats the AVR32??

Imagecraft compiler user

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very interesting...i do wonder if its not the avr32 myself

not a rookie anymore, still learning tho

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Nope the building blocks in the picture (it was on page 12 of the PDF linked from the first post BTW) do not seem to agree with the building blocks for the AVR32 device listed here:

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product...

Cliff

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That picture is on a page labeled ASICs and ASSPs so it's probably a custom chip based around an AVR core for a specific customer. Might be a handheld inventory device since it's got a module labeled barcode on the picture.

Cheap adapter boards for use with AVRs
www.flyingelectron.com

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Interesting.. Cant seem to spot any clues in the pdf, I guess you have to have been there.

btw someone mentioned before that uc's are not a large portion of atmel. Looks like a fairly decent chunk (%22) according to the pdf.

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"X Megas" are currently released parts that you can't buy because no distributor has them in stock. Plenty will be available sometime in 2007.

Edited to add: This is a joke. Insert smileys at will.

Last Edited: Thu. Aug 17, 2006 - 05:33 PM
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Hi someguy,

very interesting!
I know many AVR customers who reached the
limits of the AVR in case of computing power.
But the step to an ARM or AVR32 is too expensive
concerning tools, knowhow, IP etc.

Motorola published a new uC strategy these days. They extended a 8bit uC
family with 32bit registers and machine codes. They claim that the 8bit
code can be moved to such a 32bit machine without any changes because
this CPU also runs the 8bit code and has the same peripherals.
It is a similar game as with 8086 and 386.

Now we can expect that Atmel takes the same or similar way with these
xMegas ...
Maybe 32bit?

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rh wrote:
But the step to an ARM or AVR32 is too expensive
concerning tools, knowhow, IP etc.

That argument might hold water for AVR32 but I don't see how you could argue that for ARM - the fact is that you can get ARM tools cheaper than AVR (cf a $25 JTAG for ARM against $300 for a JTAG ICE mkII for example), the internet/programming world is awash with ARM "know how" and you can usually find IP for just about any task you can think of as the chances are that whatever you are thinking of someone somewhere in the world has already done it on an ARM

Cliff

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Hi Cliff,

the costs are not only new tools. This is
only a small part of it. The biggest cost is
getting firm with another toolset, different
drivers, software packages etc.

As you can read here in this forums there are
a huge count of problems using libraries etc.

If switching to a complete different uC family
is easy and cheap then Motorola will have no
success with their new chips. But I think
Motorola has investigated the market very well.

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I think the XMega parts will base on the same core but with a smaller chip process so they will get faster (32 MHz?). Perhaps they build their PLL for the TimerCounter clock in it (like 90PWMx), running up to 100MHz or more.....
An ADC with 12 Bit and 2MSps would also be nice
;-)

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:) Here is xMega http://www.xdesignlabs.com/xmega/
prehaps not wath you were discussing, but it is atleast named xMega (using the good old mega16)

However, while reading the provided pdf's its clear that AVR32 and Xmega is not the same thingy since AVR32 is marked with one release point, and xmega is marked with another. AVR32 has been released, xmega is yet to come.
page 21 in second pdf.

By the way, the core image reffered to is by no means said to be an xmega core in the second pdf, so this is most likly only an illustration. And it says AVH and not AVR.

Regards
Vidar (Z)

----------------------------------------------------------

"The fool wonders, the wise man asks"

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The Xmega will be released in February 2007 and will have the same instruction sets as the other AVR's. The speed and pheripherals are better and includes i.e. 12-bit/2Msps ADC, 12-bit/1Msps DAC, built-in DMA controller.. :D

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OleBrom wrote:
The Xmega will be released in February 2007 and will have the same instruction sets as the other AVR's. The speed and pheripherals are better and includes i.e. 12-bit/2Msps ADC, 12-bit/1Msps DAC, built-in DMA controller.. :D

If that is true - that is absolutely awesome.

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Just add CAN too!

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CountZero wrote:
Just add CAN too!

From the sounds of it - something like an AT90CANX168 would be amazing.

Hope to see a product announcement soon...

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OleBrom wrote:
The Xmega will be released in February 2007 and will have the same instruction sets as the other AVR's. The speed and pheripherals are better and includes i.e. 12-bit/2Msps ADC, 12-bit/1Msps DAC, built-in DMA controller.. :D

the 12bit 2msps ADC (25x faster then mega) and 12bit 1msps DAC would send the power requirements through the roof

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Quote:
I know many AVR customers who reached the
limits of the AVR in case of computing power.

I want more SPEED!
You just can't do some things at 20mips.
Like do decent video generation or work with audio.

I don't want to start trying to figure out the ARM chips... I just want 50-200mhz AVRs :)

Also the built in USB and Ethernet on some ARMs would be cool in faster AVRs also.

I think the only reason I have not jumped to ARM is that I am still shying away from smd chips... I love the ease of playing with PDIP. All my solderless breadboards would be worthless and I'd have to have custom boards made all the time for the smd chips to fit on...then I'd have to reflow them in a stinky electric skillet...it's all just way too messy :(

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Quote:
the 12bit 2msps ADC (25x faster then mega) and 12bit 1msps DAC would send the power requirements through the roof

... If you decide to use it at that speed. We already have the ability to throttle back the ADC clock, or shut the peripheral off entirely if we don't need it.

And if you really need ADC or DAC performance which is that speedy, then you've got to go into it with the expectation that there's going to be an inherent trade-off to make in terms of power consumption.

(Hey, maybe this is just a sign of "different strokes for different folks" -- pico power devices for the battery-powered gizmos that need to last for years on a single cell, and well-endowed monsters for people who don't care about power consumption.)

I'm familiar with plenty of AVR applications which are responsible for the control of many dozens of kilowatts power on an ongoing basis. I can guarantee you that the power consumed by that AVR is negligible in determining the annual power budget for those installations.

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Quote:
pico power devices for the battery-powered gizmos that need to last for years on a single cell

Yuppo, the pico power chips are wonderful.

I can't wait to get my hands on some 644p's

It seems impossible that power consumption can get that low...many devices would become obsolete way before their batteries ever ran down :)

Of course you could use an AVR pico-power chip as watchdog for a very powerful and fast processor like an ARM at 200mhz... the pico could power up the ARM so it could do its stuff...then shut it off again. The pico could even power up something super powerful like a 3+ghz motherboard or cell processor for short bursts of processing... a pico-power super computer almost :)

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Atmel should take a look to Microchip now. They have the new PIC24F/H family,
DMA, 32/16 division, 50Mips etcetc. Must we realy goto the ARMs or the new PICs ?? :twisted:

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Maybe with this chip I will be able to use the 8Mhz ISP speed of my dragon ( which speed it keeps reverting to ) .

Pete

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rh wrote:
Atmel should take a look to Microchip now. They have the new PIC24F/H family,
DMA, 32/16 division, 50Mips etcetc. Must we realy goto the ARMs or the new PICs ?? :twisted:

yea it seems Microchip, in spite of their quirky processors, is giving engineers what they are asking for (16 bits, MAC, division, DMA) and making much money while doing it, while Atmel is losing money, shutting down fabs, and laying off people, while giving us little in terms of upgrading to a more powerful processor

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> Must we realy goto the ARMs or the new PICs ??

If you are for speed, why not AVR32? I've never used them myself, but
supposedly, they are the speed of an ARM (at least), coupled with the
well-known AVR peripherals.

Obviously, speed has its price, so I doubt you could have that kind of
speed in a clumsy, 30-year old 40-pin PDIP case. SMD has proven to
be managable by hobbyists long since, and for that kind of design, it's
probably better to rather use some kind of demo kit or such.

But back to the subject, the Xmega is certainly addressing a different
target market/customer.

Jörg Wunsch

Please don't send me PMs, use email if you want to approach me personally.

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Where's the DAC I asked Santa for!? ;-)

Hmmm...droool droool...

Well, I wouldn't switch to PIC unless necessary (company refuses to use AVR because of religious reasons ;-) etc. ), cause I already know the avr stuff. I would think of it like switching from C to Basic.

But I'd like a FAST Mortal compatible (non BGA) AVR (non 32 bit) approx at 50-200MHz. And a FAST ADC (1+ MSPs) and a nice DAC (preferably fast). Or a very precise ADC/DAC. Oh, and an USB. Hmm...the applications would require quite the amount of memory (both ram and flash). Switching to MRAM would do the trick...

(ignore me, just fantasising here ;-) )

There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.

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>>An ADC with 12 Bit and 2MSps would also be nice
This will fills up your typicall AVR RAM space in no time. :)
I mean: AVR is good, cheap and specifically designed for the 8 bits world, if you need more power go for ARM or DSP's.

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dl8dtl wrote:
If you are for speed, why not AVR32?

Because so far there's only one model and it costs TWENTY FIVE bucks! (it's pretty much targetted as just an "iPOD processor").

OTOH the world is FULL of ARMs from $1 upwards

Cliff