AVR - wiki ? A good idea?

Go To Last Post
75 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
#1
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HI,
Sorry first for post this not very related topic, If it very unproper, please delect it.

I'm set up some wikis and some get somewhat popular, however, use Wiki to share AVR base knowledge is a good idea?

I want set one avr wiki, whether it is a somewhat good idea?

Thanks
// http://avrwiki.bigreat.org

Last Edited: Sun. Aug 6, 2006 - 03:06 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

You could always just expand the info under the AVR entry at Wikipedia!

But apart from the existing resources such as Atmel datasheets, Atmel app notes, the Tutorial forum here, the Academy here, what other information is there left to give? (and if there is some a contribution to the Tutorial forum here would probably be the way to go!). But I guess you could make a Wiki to pull together all these things and properly index them as a lot of people don't seem able to operate a [search] button.

Cliff

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HI,
I recently visit the AVR page at Wikipedia, however, for instance, I can't get enough information how to setup a Real Time Clock with AVR. And this is why I want to set up a seperate wiki about avr. Setting up is easy, but, I think, gather friends to fill it is the most difficult thing.

Thanks

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

bigreat wrote:
I can't get enough information how to setup a Real Time Clock with AVR.

Ah ha - which brings me back to the point about the Tutorial forum here which has a tutorial about RTCs

Cliff

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

I can't get enough information how to setup a Real Time Clock with AVR. And this is why I want to set up a seperate wiki about avr.

Did you look in the Tutorial forum on this site? There is, IIRC, at least one tutorial on doing an alarm clock.

If you want to have information on how to do a RTC then a wiki might not be very productve. People having the knowledge you seek must find your wiki and write the material there. Not very likely, IMHO. Why not stat a thread here instead, asking for tips? (And do browse through the material in the Tutorial forum).

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Naaaaaaah, the point is not the material, it is the way/method of sharing knowledge. Of couse, I can find a LOT information here, and about RTC, I did that as I post a question post here some years ago.
Obviously, wiki is different from forums, and we have such a good forum, do we need a wiki, this is the point.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Real time clock on an AVR has been covered recently in the tutorials section on this site. I think this is a much better format for this kind of thing as people can add their own thoughts on the subject, agreeing or disagreeing, as opposed to the "I've got the last word, so I'm right" process that wikis seem to engender.

Jim

Your message here - reasonable rates.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Naaaaaaah, the point is not the material, it is the way/method of sharing knowledge

But if the [search] button is used here then the amagamated threads of the last 6+ years make a pretty large database of knowledge to draw upon - far more than contained in most wiki's I think.

Cliff

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

This reminds me of a recent thread on "macros"
https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

Quote:
...so that "all" the low level code for handling internal peripherals can be extracted to some function names which are easy to remember and use ...

Let's consider the example of RTC. Is there one right way, or correct way, or best way? No. Although the possibilities are not infinite, they are larger than one would care to count. Consider all the different AVR models, and all the base clock speeds, and all the output options, and all the power draw limitations, and all the available sources of the "reference" signal from low-speed crystal to main crystal to external RTC/pulse generator to external signal like mains crossings to radio time signal, and precision requirements, and accuracy requirements, and time/temperature/voltage drift, and requirements for operation with loss of main power.

How many combinations of the above are there for "the" RTC? Referring to the macro post there are at least a zillion (technical term) of valid combinations of using I/O across the various models. Consider just one subsystem in one configuration: a timer with an overflow. ISR or not? Generic ISR? I think not--I want to >>do<< something quick during the event and don't want any extra overhead of "scheduling a task to run based on the event"--reference a recent thread on maaking an SPI ISR "skinny".

Anyway, back to the wiki. I'm just an old bit pusher and newfangled things like wikis scare us troglodytes. Now, where will the hosting be? Who will pay for it? Who will support and maintain? How long will it live? Yes, the AVRFreaks is not up 100% of the time, but it seems that Atmel is at least supplying the resources.

The various sections of this Web site have evolved over time. Is there really THAT much difference for you to put together your RTC information and have it published here as a Design Note or User Project versus a wiki? Site search will still pick it up; search engines will still pick it up. Or maybe put your site into the AVR Web ring?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Oh if there were to be a wiki it'd have to be strongly integrated into this site (maybe hosted in Norway with the rest of the stuff?) or somehow linked to atmel.com. There's nothing worse than disparate sites popping up all over the place and "watering down" the central repository of information - I keep seeing the letters "HWMNBN" flashing before my eyes - I don't know why?;)

Cliff

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I love this site more than anything on the internet. But when it comes to digging up information, I really prefer Wiki. It's pretty volatile: there is info, or there is no info, or there is partial info -- you never know, but it's easy to find if it is there. And if you know something that isn't there, you can expand topics.

Forum search is very inconvenient. It's nice when question was put up nicely and there was a quick resolution. But if a thread spans several pages, it may be very hard to find exactly what you're looking for. This is not to say that forum search and Academy are useless. It's just that these tools are not modern enough, this is how things were done in 1990's.

I see nothing wrong with the Wiki idea. In fact, I'm all for it. And just by the way, why can't it be a part of this site?

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

In order to build a wiki I'd just do a global search for all posts by 'lfmorrison' and collect them together ! ;) Either that or use those posts to write the "Definitive guide to AVRs" book.

Cliff

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HI,
I have a sparing hosting/server, how about give a try? If friends like this method, whether the integration or else is a good end.
PS: If avrfreaks integrate, a wiki is very easy to move, and I will be happy to help to export the whole sql database.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I would not use nor would I recommend to anyone to use any other site than AVRFreaks (or possibly AVRBeginners.net which is aging fast).

There is always the possibility that someone might mess with 'help' on other sites just to cause trouble and I don't want to sift through the good data looking for the land-mines. Wiki's are particularly succeptible to this.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
But if a thread spans several pages, it may be very hard to find exactly what you're looking for.

Oh, but the knowledge you pick up during the journey is priceless.

Tom

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Oh, but the knowledge you pick up during the journey is priceless.

Sure, when you have time to read through it. That you can do more or less randomly, with any threads that are on the first page of AVR forum. Wiki is good at pinpointing some particular piece of data and (ab)using it.

Everything that's in Wikipedia can be accessed otherwise. And if you get it from books, news, theatre, classes, other means of education, you get more fun and often more in-depth knowledge. But you can't know it all and that's when Wikipedia comes in handy, and that's why it is so popular.

Quote:
There is always the possibility that someone might mess with 'help' on other sites just to cause trouble

That possibility is always there and it will never cease. But if avr-wiki is integrated with AVRFreaks, I see no problems. Make it edit-accessible only to registered members, that will narrow down the possibilities of mess-ups. Still, public accessibility of Wikipedia is what makes it good: if someone messes up, others come and fix it. You can't have that with limited access or when everything is in hands of one person. In fact, information in hands of control freaks is easiest to distort and abuse.

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I think the wiki idea is great. IMHO, there are never enough sources for information. Just think of all the computer hardware websites there are, and they all thrive.

clawson wrote:
Oh if there were to be a wiki it'd have to be strongly integrated into this site (maybe hosted in Norway with the rest of the stuff?) or somehow linked to atmel.com.
Cliff

IMHO that would be the worst thing ever. Especially from the point of view of time to load. I love this place because it has so much information, but this has to be the _slowest_ loading webpage I have ever been to; even including when I was on a 33.6 modem. So please do not integrate with them until they find a much faster webhost ... :D

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
this has to be the _slowest_ loading webpage I have ever been to

AVRFreaks must consider using something faster than ATmega's for their servers ;)

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I hear they are work on the AVR32 server board upgrade, but it won't be ready to go live until ((MS VISTA == 1) && (PS3 == 1)) :lol:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

stangz989 wrote:
IMHO that would be the worst thing ever. Especially from the point of view of time to load. I love this place because it has so much information, but this has to be the _slowest_ loading webpage I have ever been to; even including when I was on a 33.6 modem. So please do not integrate with them until they find a much faster webhost ... :D

? My access loads about as fast as it would if it were on my hard drive. Seriously, it just pops up with no lag what so ever, so I don't think the problelm is on the AVRFreaks side.

Also, all the peace, love, and harmony for wiki's presupposes that the wiki isn't attacked by an insane hateful obsessive compulsive type who has enough time and knowledge to just screw up enough to throw people off but not be too obvious. This is not paranoia on my part, but recent experience. So, while a wiki on AVRFreaks, which has the ability to block trouble-makers would likely be a good idea, again I wouldn't use or recommend an uncontrolled wiki.

Some folks just strip naked and dive right into the internet. I use a full bio-hazard suit and ease myself into it.

Smiley

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

...this has to be the _slowest_ loading webpage I have ever been to; ...

I don't disagree; the rework a while back made the site virtually unusable via modem. But it is now tolerable via modem if you:
--Set a bookmark to https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p... or somewhere similar in the Forum tree
--Click the Maximize at the top of the Forum page, which will be remembered.

Still ungodly slow for anything but the Forum pages. It ain't the server per se as far as I can tell; the themes are just so full of "stuff"--many hundreds of KB each page change--that it takes forever to download and repaint. The Subsilver theme is tolerable, but still not great contrast for old eyes.

I was on another site that used the same BBS thingy, with similarly laid-out pages, etc. But it was fast!

On the other hand www.at91.com , which I assume has the same servers & admins, is even worse IMO. Can't make the text bigger; only a gray background is offered.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Can't make the text bigger; only a gray background is offered.

Hey Lee,

If you are using Firefox browser, you can press + or - to enlarge, decrease the size of the text.

5005 posts! Maybe we should have a rule that states before you reply, you need to first reread all of your previous replies :wink: It would only be fair then to have a rule that states before you post, you need to read all previous threads :shock:

Do you have children or grandchildren you can pass your username, and all that goes with it, on to?

Tom

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

If you are using Firefox browser, you can press + or - to enlarge, decrease the size of the text.

Dunno if I'm missing something, but isuppose that is similar to IE functionality (in the View menu, or holding down ctrl while rolling the mouse wheel). But if fonts are hard coded to absolute sizes in the (X)HTML, as is done at at91.com, this won't work. A case of choosing aestethics before usability (form before function), I suppose.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Smiley wrote:

Some folks just strip naked and dive right into the internet. I use a full bio-hazard suit and ease myself into it.

The rest of the Internet community thanks you!

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Johan wrote:
suppose that is similar to IE functionality (in the View menu, or holding down ctrl while rolling the mouse wheel). But if fonts are hard coded to absolute sizes in the (X)HTML, as is done at www.at91.com, this won't work.

Hmm, so I learned a new feature of Firefox today. I didn't know about the font scaling. Now that I know, just gotta try a few things :) The control-wheel trick works, and (sorry Johan) I just cruised over to at91.com and, aha, it works there also.

The fonts get steadily bolder as they get larger
'
There appears to be no limit to the magnification. You can take it up until a single letter fills the screen.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

JohanEkdahl wrote:
Smiley wrote:

Some folks just strip naked and dive right into the internet. I use a full bio-hazard suit and ease myself into it.

The rest of the Internet community thanks you!

I used to jump, but the waves were catastrophic!

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

smileymicros wrote:
Some folks just strip naked and dive right into the internet. I use a full bio-hazard suit and ease myself into it.

Thank you for that horrible bit of imagery. Now tell me; is the suit for your protection, or for ours? ;)

If the site was reworked to use CSS like the rest of the "Web2.0" then the site design (including table data, font data and such) could be downloaded in a honking great big CSS file, then each page would be content only. It would dramatically decrease load times, but unless the new BB software the admins are thinking about is based on it, I doub't they'd retrofit the entire new BB software source for CSS.....

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HI,
Ok, this topic and post is departed.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HI,
BTW, I made one, If anyone want try, please acess
http://avrwiki.bigreat.org/

OR just leave it alone.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

It looks like there is already an avr wiki page, albeit, there isn't much content....

http://avrwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Again, what does something like this do but draw folks away from the huge genuine community and resources here at AVRFreaks? I note that the avrwiki doesn't even have a link to AVRFreaks.

Jeez this smells familiar.
Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I really don't understand why an attempt to organize some information and make it accessible aggravates such skepticism at best, aggression at worst.

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I don't know if I'm being "agressive" about it, but I believe that I expressed my views in the previous round of this thread: I'm skeptical of how fresh the information will be, and also more accurate. I also don't see why the information would be more accessible than at this site. The cross-links, maybe?

Obviously anyone can put together a Web site. If the Wikiites jump onto the effort, it might be a fine site and people will flock there. My reference on this is www.avrbeginners.net -- a labour of love for a few people that did a great job of putting info together. After that initial effort, what has been new at that site lately.

The information in these Forums just keeps growing & growing.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well, we recently had virtually all our projects and data 'organized' and posted on several other websites by someone who had proven himself to be untrustworthy. When you have someone who has intentionally alterated code written by others so that it confuses and causes people to waste time, then I think it is reasonable to become skeptical and even agressive when questioning the motives of anyone intent on driving folks away from AVRFreaks to other sites, which may be legitimate or may not. I don't have the time or inclination to vet other websites and when I know that there are now AVR websites out there that were created for the purpose of hurting people, well to be truthful, I think my response is understated not aggressive.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I could never understand why we couldnt get some upload area where we could put the same example in each compiler syntax. 'polled uart cv' 'polled uart icc' 'polled uart gcc'

Imagecraft compiler user

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Bob--

This is really better in the "peeved" current thread in the OffTopic Forum, but here goes:

There are so many ways to set up an AVR that the examples cannot be "one size fits all". UARTs are dependent on clock speed. Many examples depend on the pins being used. ADC depends on the pin, the ref type, the ref level, and the clock speed. Many of the "need code desperately" posters seem unable to transpose anything or decode setup registers and want it exactly for their setup. Then they decry the fact that there is no canned example.

I've pretty much given up on those threads, especially when there is a whiff that a development contract was let to someone having no idea how to complete it, or the student wanting someone to do their overdue project for them.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

theusch wrote:
Bob-- ...snip...
There are so many ways to set up an AVR that the examples cannot be "one size fits all". UARTs are dependent on clock speed. Many examples depend on the pins being used. ADC depends on the pin, the ref type, .......
Lee

Hey Lee,

Bob is very clearly NOT talking about universal code for different AVRs, clock speeds and hardware as you claim.

He is suggesting a section with implementations of a identical task using different compilers.

I personally think it is a good idea, and would support Bob in his efforts.

SomeGuy

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I wasnt around for the event that smiley is refering too, but I really don't know why people are so against several sources of information? Yes, it would be bad if they got the information wrong, but if someone spent all the time to put it together to make a great website, I don't know why they would want to sabotage it. But that could just because I am naive.

Also, although I do love this website, I find that pretty much everything except the forums is hard to use and hard to find what you are looking for. But nonetheless, the site is GREAT because of the forums and the people in it. But it could definitely could be reorganized so that it is easier to find things, and add some more information.

About Bob's and theusch's comments. I understand where theusch is coming from that it is hard to make examples for one size fits all, and his comments about people not wanting to transpose it to their application, but I think he is being just a little bit too negative. I think that it would be a great idea to document some topics even if it can't be universal or "one size fits all".

I might get some flack for this, but I think that one thing that this site is missing is a tutorial 101 on setting up your first avr, programming it, and getting it to work. I may be looking in the wrong place but I can't seem to find it. And I have to ask questions on the forum, which sometimes annoy the members, because they seem "easy" or "basic". But for someone first starting out, without knowing where to look for answers all they can do is ask questions. And so I plan on making the basic starting out tutorial when I finally get my stuff working. And hopefully submitting it to avrfreaks.net for hosting. Sorry for the long winded post....

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well, there seem to be several "geting started" AVR guides on the net, but each of them is pretty poor. As for this site, I only use the forums and "Devices" section because it's really convenient. Something where you can write "USART" and get a page with a summary of related registers and very basic code example(s) would really be nice and that's why I'm all for AVR Wiki.

@Smiley et al: you're so cranky because He Who Must Not Be Named stole your code. But I don't really see why that example, which was most regrettable, must be applied to anyone willing to do a good thing. This time, it is a possibility to establish a balance between the righteous and the treacherous: if you get out of the protective internet suit, HWMNBN's site is not really easy to miss, especially if you're new to AVR, curious and naiive. And if you ignore this Wiki, who would be there to fill it up and take care of it?

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Actually I'm not aware that any of my code was stolen, especially since most of 'my' code was stolen from other sources in the first place. No, the only thing he stole from me was a lot of tilme and a bit of my peace-of-mind. Before him I knew to be vigilant for honest mistakes, but I wasn't thinking about deliberate sabatoge. Now I think ever other newbie that asks a needy question is just another disguise for the peace and time thief.

And I don't think the idea of a wiki on AVRFreaks would be a bad idea. The wiki format would probably compliment the tutorials section and definately be easier to search and update than the projects section. But it would require a bit of monitoring to catch accidental and intentional errors.

Finally, I have no problem whatever with anyone starting any kind of website they wish to start. I was just explaining why I would neither use it, nor recommend it. I use other websites, avrbeginners.net, Martin Thomas' great site, Pascal Stang's, Peter Fluery's, the Cornell site and others. So I guess if the wiki does take off and gets good materials and doesn't get too hacked, then I might lighten up a bit. But I'm willing to bet my left nut that nobody is really interested enough to make it happen. Lot's of people talk big until they see how much work is involved then they slither off to some other big talk project.

Cranky?
Smiley

Last Edited: Mon. Jul 31, 2006 - 01:29 PM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Cranky?

No, I think it was very well put and your arguments make perfect sense to me.

So it seems that nobody really is against AVR Wiki as long as it's part of AVRFreaks.net? As for nobody being interested enough, maybe not at the moment. It's not going to happen in an instant. But individuals' intent to make their own avr-related site can be redirected towards the Wiki. Less ambition, definitely, but more outcome.

I suggest we make a start. Let's think of seed articles. USART mentioned above is a good start, imo. Some other topic getting asked every day? Timers perhaps!

The Dark Boxes are coming.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

stangz989 wrote:
It looks like there is already an avr wiki page, albeit, there isn't much content....

http://avrwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

The problem is that, we know nothing about the owner, even don't know is he/she a user of avrfreaks.
So I host a wiki, avrwiki.bigreat.org, and willing to provide the wiki's database to avrfreaks anytime.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Seems to be run by "Steve Lacy". Search of these forums doesn't come up with anyone.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

mneary wrote:
Seems to be run by "Steve Lacy". Search of these forums doesn't come up with anyone.

Yup. Thats me. Just found this thread, and as many of you are, am puzzled by the hostility towards the idea. Thankfully, not too much of that was pointed at my site.

The one thing I think everyone here needs to remember about *any* Wiki is that you (and I mean *you*) can always just log in and edit the page! If you think something is missing, then add a link to it, or write up a page. Thats the whole point! If http://avrwiki.com is missing a link to avrfreaks.net, then go add one! In fact, write up a whole page about it! New pages go live instantly, and can be seen and edited by anyone and everyone.

Since people seem mildly interested, I'll fill in the background or history of avrwiki.com. The idea started over 5 years ago with a plain HTML page that I wrote about building avr-gcc on Linux. It was the most popular page on my personal site, so I decided that people must be interested in AVR related info, so I set up a small wiki on that site. I was the only person who could edit the pages, and it was more of a repository of my own notes, than it was a public wiki. I got fairly frequent comments about the pages, all of which were very positive. One day, I went to upgrade the wiki software I was using, and it trashed the site. Unfortunately, I had no backup, so I just let it rot. My plain html compiler page was still live, so I kept that up.

Just recently, I began to get back into some AVR programming, and had recently gotten an e-mail wondering where the old Wiki was, so I decided to get a domain and set up a "real" Wiki that everyone could edit. I've also had several friends that want to get into AVR programming, and I've written pages for them, to get them started.

AVRwiki is just getting going, and I'm the first to admit it! I'm now using the standard "MediaWiki" software, which will be much more stable than the original version, so I don't suspect any future upgrade issues. I started the site with a bunch of old pages that I've had hanging around, added some of the original wiki's content from the internet archive, and one other guy has written a couple of good pages on the site. I've been trying to add content on a regular basis, but progress is slow when its just me.

So, the proverbial ball has not yet begun to roll, (avrwiki.com doesn't have any self-sustaining momentum yet) so there is still a lot of missing content, as you have noticed. I'd also like to assure everyone that I'm not going to start cutting-and-pasting content from avrfreaks or other AVR resources into the wiki. I'd really like it to be all new and unique content. I'm not sure what my long term goals are -- if it does get momentum, then I will keep it alive for the benefit of everyone. If it doesn't, then thats fine with me to, and it can continue to be a repository of my own notes and AVR projects.

Like others here seem to be, I'm not a huge fan of web "forums," although they do sometimes come in handy for timely discussions like this one. Its my belief that a Wiki is a much better organized source of information than archived forums, but maybe thats just my preference. I find avrfreaks.net a little "busy" for my tastes, and I mostly started avrwiki.com as a place that I could share my personal notes, along with similar notes from everyone in the AVR community, like you.

Anyway, I encourage all of you to log on to http://avrwiki.com and create some pages, fill in missing info, correct mistakes, do anything you like! Like any other Wiki, I keep an eye out for "spam" and malicious editing, and there has been none on avrwiki.com so far.

What else would you like to know?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

slacy wrote:
... puzzled by the hostility towards the idea.
...
What else would you like to know?

Puzzled? I thought I was crystal clear, but let me repeat myself:
How do you insure that some SOB doesn't mess with your info? Suppose a person decides to cause folks to waste time by either posting messed up code, or deliberately makes tiny but hard to find changes in other code or text. We've had a guy do this on the forum and he put in a tremendous amout of effort into it. I shudder to think what he could have done had he the power to edit anything I or others were posting. With people like him in the world, I wouldn't trust anything posted on an AVR wiki.

I think trust on the internet is naive to the point of stupidity.

If you want to provide the world with you notes, that is a good thing. I really appreciate the sites put up by Martin Thomas, Peter Fleury, Pascal Stang and others, but I'll trust your work only if you can assure that it hasn't been compromised - and on a wiki you cannot.

Again, I don't see this as hostility, unless you consider reality hostile - which I do.

All that said, I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech and support your right to do your wiki and my right to stay away from it.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Wow, I almost don't know what to say.

The principle of a community wiki is that if someone finds errors (malicious or otherwise) that they have the personal power to make those changes. If "good" people outnumber "bad" people, then the quality of the information will tend towards correctness. This is why http://wikipedia.com works.

In the short term, I personally review most edits on avrwiki.com, but clearly that process doesn't scale as dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of people start editing. If I start to see malicious edits, then I can revoke user permissions, or rethink the "open community" idea altogether. I hope it doesn't come to that. The MediaWiki software does have the ability to "lock" pages such that only specially authorized users can edit those pages. I can imagine moving the site to this model if people are really being malicious. I'm not excited about setting up a "walled garden" though. ( For an example, take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo... )

I guess I'm just more trusting of the average user than you are. So far, this trust has proven to be a good thing, and people are making great contributions to the site, and avrwiki.com is slowly building momentum

Steve

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Steve:

Pay no attention to the nattering nabobs of negativism. Keep on truckin.

Rick

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Spiro Agnew and Mr. Natural on the same line! The Apocalypse must be about to happen.

And spookily - RETRO.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

smileymicros wrote:
Spiro Agnew and Mr. Natural on the same line! The Apocalypse must be about to happen.

Smiley

I guess some of us are dedicated to the AVRFreaks forum and, some of us are not...

While I visit a lot of manufacturer and vendor web-sites, AVRFreaks.net is the only forum that I visit and contribute to on a daily basis. All of the others are, in my honest opinion, just second rate compared to AVRFreaks.net

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

You guys need to lighten up a bit. Encouraging another avr freak means being against AVRFreaks? You must be joking. Don't want to
visit other sites? Then don't. The experience with HWMNBN (5 demerits to Smiley for violating the code.) seems to have soured some
people on the idea of other, competently run, community oriented AVR sites. It shouldn't. I don't trust HWMNBN, so I don't visit that site.
The market (all avr freaks) will determine the success or failure of a site. Denigrating anothers HONEST efforts is not the way to do it and
reflects poorly on this site. Nuff said.

Rick

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm puzzled. Since 'denigrating' implies hostile intent, and somebody else mentioned 'hostile' I'm going to ask, when I said:

Quote:
I think trust on the internet is naive to the point of stupidity

Is that a denigration or being hostile? It is my honest opinion. I was paranoid about the internet before our recent troubles and I'm even more paranoid afterward.

Sure, I have the right to ignore the other websites, but I don't see any problem with me expressing my opinion here on AVRFreaks about a concept that I consider potentially dangerous.

We know for a fact that several AVR websites are tarbabies intended only to trap folks and cause them to waste time. Since we know that some exist - how do we know that other new websites aren't exactly the same sort of thing? I can't see spending a lot of tilme trying to figure out which website is honest and which isn't.

The whole thing devolves to the simple concept of access to data. I have no problem with anyone publishing anything, but leaving it open to where it can be tampered with is not a good idea since we know we have nasty folks lurking around who have and will put in a lot of time futzing with us.

Maybe nothing will happen. But since Retro's favorite game was getting people to waste time and slowy baiting them into rages, then he'd have a field day dicking with a wiki. And, of course, Retro was but one of many who are well described in a wikipedia article on internet trolls. This syndrome is so common that I just can't trust anything from the internet that doesn't have some degree of protection from malicious tampering.

The ultimately frustrating thing is that I have no way of knowing that YOU guys aren't both Retro in another incarnation. Not an accusation, but a statement of fact. How can I know?

Yeah, I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?

And I don't consder these opinions to be the least hostile, nor can I see how my expressing my opinion reflects poorly on this site. To me, any vigourous and well thought-out debate reflects very well on a site.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I really wish that things like this would go away!

IRRC, HWMNBN, IMHO & the many others that surface in posts. I haven't got a clue what many of these acronyms mean.

If you want to use IMHO then use the fully spelled out prhase once and, after the first use use the acronym. Example:

In My Honest Opinion (IMHO) this is the correct way to use acronyms and all writers guides say so.

On The Other Hand (OTOH) the use of acronyms such as OTOH & IMHO is nothing more then the worst form of writers laziness!

And IMHO this is how you should use acronyms.

If you can't write in a form that everyone can understand then, IMHO, don't write anything at all !!!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Wait, wait, Carl! How about encoding acronyms into your serial LCD user-interface (SLCDUI) project? https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

Simply send ASCII encoded acronyms to your LCD and it would expand them to full text for display. You would sure save on the message string memory required on the host uC. This would be an Internet acronym user's dream interface!

Use this as your interface manual: http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/

Tom

EDIT: HWMNBN - He who must not be named. A very Retro acronym.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

HWMNBN - He Who Must Not Be Named.

IIRC, this is a play on Harry Potter's world where Lord Voldemort was referred to as HWMNBN and IMHO some folks here started to refer to RetroDan by that title. OTOH, I'm sure he was absoluted delighted.

And now this thread is FUBAR, but thats just SNAFU.
Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

AAAAGH! Ack! Smiley actually named He Who Must Not Be Named. No wonder it is 100 degrees F here--we are all going to burn now.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I suggest that we, as a rule, do not use the words "Retro" and

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

"Dan" in the same post.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

svofski wrote:
I suggest we make a start. Let's think of seed articles. USART mentioned above is a good start, imo. Some other topic getting asked every day? Timers perhaps!

As a noob I am still not fully clear on the proper usage of each memory space, Flash I know is the code, but the major differences and ramifications of SRAM and EEPROM are still not clear with me, maybe an article defining these?

Best Regards,

Steve

  • "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."  -- Abraham Lincoln
  • "All right wise guy, where am I?"   -- Daffy Duck
  • "Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley."  -- Big Bob, Pleasantville
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Overheard at a restaurant, "After writing the book, I knew so much more about the subject."

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Was that you?

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

When I started teaching (eons ago) I was quite nervous, and doubted my skills. My mentor told me

Quote:
You never really know the subject matter of a course until you have taught it yourself once. Or twice...

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

smileymicros wrote:
Was that you?

No, I heard someone at the next table say it.

This goes along with another one, "You will have the energy to do something at the instant you start doing it." This I have found to be true again and again. Of course it's only common sense but it can be a great motivator for me.

My first quotation was more or less meant for Steve. After writing an article about flash, sram, register, and EEPROM memory usage, he would no longer be a noob on the subject.

Ah, here's another one, "Seek clarity."

Tom

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

zoomcityzoom wrote:

Simply send ASCII encoded acronyms to your LCD and it would expand them to full text for display. You would sure save on the message string memory required on the host uC.

Tom

This suggestion reminds me of a product, 15 years ago, that sent a code number (1...31) via very slow, VLF transmitter to underground miners which was then decoded before display on their receivers. Eg, 1 = "Return to surface, your lunch is ready "

Maybe we should just converse via code numbers.

Regards,

Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

That reminds me...

A guy goes to prison and after lights out somebody down the cell block says: '28' and everybody laughs. Later, another guy says '17' and again everybody laughs. So the new guy asks his cell mate what's going on and he's told that everybody has been in there so long that they know all their jokes so they've assigned a number to each. Later still, the new guy shouts out '12' and nobody laughs. He asks his cell mate why and is told, 'some people just don't know how to tell a joke.'

Maybe we should have a number system to answer all the questions that folks ask and we answer every few days because the asker doesn't know how to use the search function.

'What's duh best compiler?' answer 23
'Which is better, duhiieee, PIC ur AVR?' answer 14
'How does I larn C?' answer 42
'Witch are better ASM or C?' answer eleventytwelve.
'Is Pascal a dead language?' Oh for Christs sake, it was never alive in the first place! 8 damnit 8!!!

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

smileymicros wrote:
Maybe we should have a number system to answer all the questions that folks ask and we answer every few days because the asker doesn't know how to use the search function.

Without seeming an ingrate for the gentle nudging toward self-edification, it was the search functionality that -- partially -- lead me to ask the question.

All my searches, both within -- and without -- AVR Freaks yielded massive amounts of informative, intriguing and motivating articles and snippets. None of which necessarily explain that I should not use EEPROM as temporary holding for calculations. (Reading the data sheet and applying a little common sense helped figure that one out.) All of which, however, drive me to learn as much as possible.

zoomcityzoom wrote:
My first quotation was more or less meant for Steve. After writing an article about flash, sram, register, and EEPROM memory usage, he would no longer be a noob on the subject.

I will attempt this, can I post in the forums for comments/corrections, or should it just go in the wiki?

BTW, I have only encountered a group such as this (AVR Freaks) once before in my life. Band mates, musicians, are as tightly-knit and helpful as this group is, part of the reason I chose AVR products for my fledgling hobby.

Best Regards,
Steve

  • "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."  -- Abraham Lincoln
  • "All right wise guy, where am I?"   -- Daffy Duck
  • "Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley."  -- Big Bob, Pleasantville
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
I will attempt this, can I post in the forums for comments/corrections, or should it just go in the wiki?

Thanks for volunteering to do this! My vote would be to post it here for comments/corrections.

Tom

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

zoomcityzoom wrote:
Quote:
I will attempt this, can I post in the forums for comments/corrections, or should it just go in the wiki?

Thanks for volunteering to do this! My vote would be to post it here for comments/corrections.

Tom

My vote is the same as Tom's because, for the most part, anyone who would comment/correct any topic posed on this forum is more then likely genuinely interested and concerned that the correct information be distributed - hence, SmileyMocro's reason for a very much valid concern.

My feeling is simply that, the original author/s should have the sole control of any documents he/she/they create.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

microcarl wrote:
zoomcityzoom wrote:
Thanks for volunteering to do this! My vote would be to post it here for comments/corrections.

Tom

My vote is the same as Tom's because, for the most part, anyone who would comment/correct any topic posed on this forum is more then likely genuinely interested and concerned that the correct information be distributed - hence, SmileyMocro's reason for a very much valid concern.

My feeling is simply that, the original author/s should have the sole control of any documents he/she/they create.

I will endeavour to get something up within a couple of days. Something worthy of comments/corrections!

I fully agree with and respect SmileyMicro's statements / concerns. I like doing my own homework ;-) but I additionally respect and like to consult those with much greater experience than mine.

Best Regards,
Steve

  • "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."  -- Abraham Lincoln
  • "All right wise guy, where am I?"   -- Daffy Duck
  • "Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley."  -- Big Bob, Pleasantville
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
That reminds me...

A guy goes to prison and after lights out somebody down the cell block says: '28' and everybody laughs. Later, another guy says '17' and again everybody laughs. So the new guy asks his cell mate what's going on and he's told that everybody has been in there so long that they know all their jokes so they've assigned a number to each. Later still, the new guy shouts out '12' and nobody laughs. He asks his cell mate why and is told, 'some people just don't know how to tell a joke.'


The way I heard it, the next number was received with howls of laughter, and the cell mate said "That's a new one - they haven't heard that one before!"

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I guess I'm one of those people who just doesn't know how to tell a joke.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

smileymicros wrote:
I guess I'm one of those people who just doesn't know how to tell a joke.

Smiley


Hahaha! I haven't heard that one before!

I wasn't saying that your version was wrong, simply that there is an extra bit that has been added at some stage...

Four legs good, two legs bad, three legs stable.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm another one that thinks a wiki would be nice on avrfreaks.
I probably wouldn't use an AVR wiki anywhere else.

Yeah.. it clashes a bit with the tutorials section of the forums, but really is a different thing.

Someone could start a wiki entry with what they know, then extra things (more information, more code, optimised code, etc) could be added by others later

It seems that a tutorils post requires a large amount of effort by just one person, which, while it means you get solid info from one source, perhaps means that less tutorials get posted than could be.

restricting the wiki to people with at least a small posting history on the foums would likely keep out anyone too malicious from doing damage to it.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

My experience with the tutorials section is that most posts generate a lot of responses which lead to lots of editing of the tutorial itself.

In the case of several intentionally dangerous tutorials, lots of folks showed the flaws and provided so many negative comments that I think any sane person would ignore those tutorials.

Finally, while we don't have any mechanism for restricting comments based on number of posts and while this probably could be done, our recent attacker had hundreds of posts in less than month. Remember, these guys play a forum like it is a video game. They have their own score keeping system and will spend hours a day playing their game. I think any troll worth an expletive would delight in building up enough innocent posts so that he could get 'certified' and then start to do his damage.

And yes, I have been officially diagnosed as paranoid, but only by one point. I've always wondered about that one point.

But a wiki on AVRFreaks would probably work just fine, so you guys might suggest it to the masters of our domain.

Smiley

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

ciroque wrote:
I will endeavour to get something up within a couple of days.

Is quoting myself neurotic? I have not had as much time as I had hoped, but I have started. Attached is a PDF with the beginnings, now that I have the basic layout it should be finished fairly quickly.

Note that the original is an XHTML document suitable for layout like the other articles. Altova's suite combined with Altsoft's suite makes PDF generation easy, although I am still figuring out the formatting idiosyncrasies.

I no longer feel like a noob, now the actual question seems somewhat silly...

Best Regards,
Steve

Attachment(s): 

  • "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."  -- Abraham Lincoln
  • "All right wise guy, where am I?"   -- Daffy Duck
  • "Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley."  -- Big Bob, Pleasantville
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

All right! Nice start!

ciroque wrote:
I will endeavour to get something up within a couple of days.

You said what you meant and you meant what you said.

Tom