Enter The Dragon

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I know this will sound stupid but.... are you selecting "connect" or "auto connect" from the program avr tab? If you use auto connect it will go back to the Dragon rather than let you select the programming tool (STK500)...I know I know...but just in case :-)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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You guys are scaring me here..
Now I'm afraid to upgrade and hook up the dragon.
(bites nails)

If my STK500 goes braindead I'm doomed!

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Can you even ISP the AVR using the Dragon? I don't see how its possible to screw up an STK500 just by using another ISP programmer. Look over all the jumper selections. Look at the current AVRStudio (STK500) settings. Basicly re-look everything. I also had a very similar problem a day after I used my stk500 the first time....but re-flashing fixed it up.


My AVR Site

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Just tried my STK500. Looks OK I can read the signature on a 90s8515.

Quote:
the Dragon breath has spued the eval fire

Ealry 4th July fireworks ?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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correct me if I am wrong..bit did not Johan test a Dragon to ISP a Mega88 in the STK500 with no issues? If that was the case and MicroCarl is running the same setup but experiencing a different result would it not be good for them to compare notes and see where the issue might be? :)
I ordered some other megas today and they will get here Friday so I will expand my testing then if it helps.
I think as the others who received these gifts will come online soon as they get their Dragons, that hopefully between all of us we can cover most if not all the chips that are supported.

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microcarl wrote:
Item #1. The Dragon won't release the target to run after it's done programming in TJAG.

This is normal, assuming you are not programming via the "Program AVR..." option (instead programming by opening the .ELF file). AVRStudio will keep the AVR in reset in anticipation of you starting it (via Debug->Start Program) but you can release the programmer by yanking the cable. If you program via the "Program AVR..." interface (not sure about the Dragon yet but you can open the programming window on a JTAG unit and program an AVR via the JTAG interface) then the programmer will automatically release the /RESET line.

Microcarl, so this is the situation so far (please correct where appropriate):

1) You can program AVRs via the JTAG interface on the Dragon.
2) You cannot program AVRs via the ISP interface on the Dragon, the Dragon is resetting it's SPI speed parameter on startup.
3) You can no longer program AVRs on your STK500 after attaching the Dragon.

I had a serious problem with my old STK500. It literally died mid-programming of a Butterfly, and would then act perfectly normal until I tried any ISP program/verify operations where it would hang. When you try to ISP program on the STK500, does the status light stay on yellow? In my case repairing or downgrading the firmware didn't help, but miraculously shipping it to Germany so another user could have (and perhaps fix) it apparently repaired it :S.

The Dragon doesn't supply a target voltage on the VTARGET pin, does it? We need schematics!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
Dragon doesn't supply a target voltage on the VTARGET pin, does it?

No it doesn't. Are you chasing DHL before they ship your Dragon back to Norway? Ring them perhaps.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:
No it doesn't.

Good, because it shouldn't. Just covering possibilities.

js wrote:
Are you chasing DHL before they ship your Dragon back to Norway? Ring them perhaps.

No need, it' re-sheduled for delivery. This happened last time; DHL seems to think my street is located elsewhere, and sends the package to the wrong distribution centre. They then send it back to the main one and get it right the second time.

Can't say I hold much love for DHL.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Hey, Nick!

Where did you get those connectors (at the "single ends" of the squid)?

I've seen those with as few as 2 lines, but those look like single connectors.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Being doing a bit more Dragonning with a Tiny2313 and DW. Don't know if the following is a bug or not. I can't seem to program the DWEN bit by using the Dragon in ISP mode, it gives the warning about setting the bit but it doesn't stick. By going into debug mode it ask to set the DWEN bit in ISP mode which works and the DW operation is successful. Disabling DWEN from within debugWIRE works too.
Well I think I have had enough for the day, my 12 hours are up :( Microcarl seems to have gone into sleep mode and even though it is about time to wake up I suspect he'll be executing a lot of NOPs due to the holiday.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Hey, Nick!

Where did you get those connectors (at the "single ends" of the squid)?

I've seen those with as few as 2 lines, but those look like single connectors.


I often will just use a single crimp pin and then put heatshrink over that. I actually prefer that over using 1x1 crimp housings. But, if you insist, you can get them here:

http://hansenhobbies.com/product...

I'm sure they're available many other places, but I know the owner of the above store and I have used many of his connectors, so I can reccomend both the store and the part.

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Ok! The good news is, I'm up and rinning!!!

First, be aware that I am using an STK500/501 combination when dealing with the Mega64 and Mega128, and the Dragon or STK500 and ISP when dealing with the Mega88's.

When I first connected the Dragon, I was able to connect and program a Mega64 using JTAG, but not Dragon ISP but, I think I had the enable serial downloads fuse disabled.

In an attempt to duplicate the problem JS was having, I downloaded the current AVRStudio and SP3 off of the Atmel web-site.

After removal of the existing AVRStudio, build 485 and, the installation of the AVRStudio and SP3, build 488, upon connection I was asked to upgrade the firmware in the Dragon - and I did. Connecting to the Dragon was never an issue but, I was unable to read the chip ID - any chip ID, using JTAG or ISP.

I then decided to move over to the STK500 ISP. I was then asked to upgrade the firmware in the STK500, and I did. But I was not able to read any chip ID's with it either. Whereas: the STK500 has been working flawlessly for months. Yet, I was unable to read any chip ID. I had been usint the STK500 all day so, I knew it was working.

After many hours of beating my head on the bench and, 1 Mega64, 1 Maga128 and 2 Mega88's killed in action, I decided to go back to build 485.

I un-installed AVRStudio build 488 and installed the version of AVRStdio and SP3 build 485 which I was using before attempting to help JS.

After the re-installation of AVRStudio and PS3, build 485, upon connectiong to the Dragon I was asked if I wanted to down-rev the Dragon firmware - and I did. At that point I was able to read the chip ID and program a new Mega64 using ISP. I then enabled the JTAG fuse and I was able to program the new Mega64 using JTAG.

I then moved over to the STK500 ISP and, I was again asked to down-re the STK500 firmware - and I did. I was then able to read the chip ID and program the new Mega64 using the STK500 ISP.

The version of AVRStudio and SP3 that I used to help JS were direct downloads from Atmel's web-site. The version that I was originally using, I downloaded from Atmel's web-sire on 06/30/2006.

The versions of AVRStudio and SP3 that I downloaded on 06/30/2006 were:
aStudio4b460.exe version 10.1.0.238
AVRStudio412SP3_beta_b485.exe version 10.1.0.238

Now some notes...

As I have stated, this is my first experience with JTAG of any kind so, my ignorance has much to play in my loss of control with the operation of the Dragon.

One big mistake that I think that I made is that I inadvertently turned off the JTAG fuse simultainious to turning off the serial download fuse.

Duh! I guess it would make sense that if you turn off all of the available methods of communications with the chip, you can't communicate with the chip. The thing is, I can't say whether I was in that situation before of after I started helping JS. I suspect the latter because, I was programming my target while attempting to help JS.

While I apear to have everything in good working order, I do not like the fact that I have to physically remove the JTAG cable friom the target device before the target application can run. I can't see this as being normal. So, I probably won't be too inclined to use the Dragon until I purchase a few Mega's that fall under it's support as, there is no additional support gained by it's use until then. I'll just keep using the STK500 ISP. Now, my next project will more then likely ba a Mega32 and I will incorporate the JTAG interface for use be the Mighty Dragon.

This learning opportunity was at the expense of 1 Mega64, 1 Mega128, 2 Mega88's

Interestingly, one Mega88 was DOA out of the box. The other Mega88 will allow the Dragon and STK500 ISP to read the chip ID and read and change the fuses. But none of the three programming channels will complete the programming cycle without a data corruption error message.

So, I hope this puts to rest some fears and provides a bit of insite to a few issues that can trap a new-be to JTAG.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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microcarl wrote:
...I do not like the fact that I have to physically remove the JTAG cable from the target device before the target application can run.

You might have missed my post earlier in the thread (posted yesterday).

If you program the target using the JTAG interface from the Program AVR... dialogue, then it should start the program automatically. If the JTAG interface loads the program in preparation for debugging inside AVRStudio it will pause the program until you either remove the cable (ending debugging) or chose "Start Program" from the appropriate AVRStudio menu.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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abcminiuser wrote:

Quote:
If the JTAG interface loads the program in preparation for debugging inside AVRStudio it will pause the program until you either remove the cable (ending debugging) or chose "Start Program" from the appropriate AVRStudio menu.

Dean,

I am not trying to load the AVR during a debug session. I have no AVR's on hand that the Dragon will support. I am trying to program the AVR from an object file, just as I would using ISP.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:

I am not trying to load the AVR during a debug session.

Enter another noob when it comes to dW/JTAG:

I suspect that while the dW/JTAG connection to the AVR it is "by design" that the AVR will only run controlled by the debugging session in Studio. In a way that makes sense - If you only wanted to program the thing and then let it run free from the debugging system you would not need dW/JTAG but could go straight for "standard ISP".

Also: If the AVR sees a dW/JTAG debugging system connected to it there would have to be some sort of control that could tell it if to run free or be under control of the dbugging system. IT might be that Studio in reality does this descicion - ie. always under control of the debugging system.

For me the big drawback (if I have understood things correctly) is that I cannot disable debugWire through ISP programming. So when I want to switch from dW to ISP I must first set up HV programming to disable dW (and check that ISP is enabled), and then rewire again for ISP. Going the other way (enabling the dW through ISP) does not display this akwardness.

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Quote:
I want to switch from dW to ISP I must first set up HV programming to disable dW

Not necessary, it can be done from inside debugWIRE when you have finished your debugging. Just go to debug>Dragon options (I think) and then click on disable debugWire. Of course you will need all 6 wires connected as if it were ISP programming. The disable DW option is only visible whilst you are in DW debug mode otherwise it doesn't come up.

By the way my target is an older board for the 90s2313 and it has an external BOD chip and a 4K7 pullup on the reset pin (I have removed the cap) and it still works well.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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JohanEkdahl wrote:

Quote:
If you only wanted to program the thing and then let it run free from the debugging system you would not need dW/JTAG but could go straight for "standard ISP".

Ah! But the JTAG interface programs so much faster compared to ISP. I guess it's all some sort of trade-off, isn't it.

But I'm still a bit unsettled as to why I couldn't run anything, Dragon or STK500, with the most current SP3, build 488...

Obviously, I'm not totally incompetent as, I was eventually able to recover but, I made several attempts, going back and forth between AVRStudion versions. Each time I updated to the most current version of SP3, I ended up with the same reaults, a non-functional Dragon and STK500. I just decided that I will wait until the folks at Atmel get all of the bugs out before upgrading again.

Also, I'm trying to con the little woman out of some money so I can but a few of each Mega in the current Dragon support list. I need to have a better variety of devices anyway.

I am looking forward to my next project so I can use JTAG for debugging. Maybe I won't have to spend days figuring out the obvious mistake of something like using && instead of just &. Of course, I could always get new glasses!

Thanks for your input Dean and Johan.

And JS, I'm sorry that I was unable to help with your problem, but the whole thing here, just fell apart.

And I wonder why the other Dragon recipients are so quiet! What have your experiences been with the Dragon? Don't let me and Johan be the only one who reveals their lack of knowledge about JTAG.

Good or bad, tell us so we don't have to make the same mistakes...

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

Last Edited: Tue. Jul 4, 2006 - 11:01 PM
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Quote:

Ah! But the JTAG interface programs so much faster compared to ISP.

Carl, Carl, Carl... Impatience is for the young and restless. Ya'know, Dean, Gwen... We, who think one of our advantages is experience should use the time it takes to download the firmware to do take a quick look over the system, think ahead and be in control. Go for another cup of coffe. Or just take a nap...

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:

Ah! But the JTAG interface programs so much faster compared to ISP.

Carl, Carl, Carl... Impatience is for the young and restless. Ya'know, Dean, Gwen... We, who think one of our advantages is experience should use the time it takes to download the firmware to do take a quick look over the system, think ahead and be in control. Go for another cup of coffe. Or just take a nap...

Johan, I'll buy into the coffe and nap!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
I do not like the fact that I have to physically remove the JTAG cable friom the target device before the target application can run.

I have just upgraded my JTAGICE and programmed a M128 with it. In JTAG program mode the chip IS RELEASED as soon as it finishes programming it, so it looks like another small bug in the Dragon not releasing the chip as both of us have confirmed.

I guess we should find out from Atmel if our rambling on this thread or others are good enough for problem reporting or we should submit a proper bug report. What saith the DEV team? (I hope it's the DEVelopers team and not the DEVil's team :lol: )

So all in all the Dragon seems fairly usable and one should not be afraid of using it or upgrading Studio, even though Carl seems to be having a few "issues". I must admit I click on "upgrade" with trepidation since my AVRISP got crippled (and still is) following a S4.12 upgrade that went wrong and Atmel doesn't want to give me the code for the 1200 which I accidendatly erased during an attempted manual update :( ...but that's another thread...

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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is wrote:

Quote:
So all in all the Dragon seems fairly usable and one should not be afraid of using it or upgrading Studio, even though Carl seems to be having a few "issues".

Actually JS, my troubles seem to be behind me, for now. As my Dragon seems to be perfectly functional, plus or minus a few minor bugs, I plan on keeping the version of SP3 that works for me in a safe place on the network. When the folks at Atmel make the bug corrections, I'll give it a try, knowing that I can always go back to a working state at any time.

Thanks for the confirmation on the program release issue.

Has anyone given any thoughts as to a suitable case? I would like to eventually buy say, three Dragons. The idea is that each Dragon has it's own dedicated case. One would strictly be dedicated to JTAG, one to ISP and Debug-Wire and, the third would be dedicated to High-Voltage programming.

As I have stated several times, I rarely ever proto-type using proto-bouards. In fact, I rarely even used the STK500 in design work. The STK500 is dedicated mostly to those times when I'm helping other AVRFreaks work out code issues. So, as I don't plan on actually using the Draagon breadboard area, dedicating a case to the Dragon and sealing off the proto-type area isn. really of concern to me.

I have thought a bit about making a series of adapters such that, I would plug the adapter into the Dragon proto area. The adapter would house the target AVR and, a cable would be attached to the adapter that could be used as an imbillical cord to the target proto-type board. I'm not sure yet as, I haven't seen the Dragon schematics but, wouldn't that qualify as a full blown enulator?

It's just a though!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Reading through the setup prociedure for the Dragon:

1. Follow these simple steps to get started using the AVR Dragon:
2. Download AVR Studio 4.12 SP3 or later from http://www.atmel.com/avrdragon
3. Install AVR Studio and the USB driver 
4. Connect AVR Dragon to the computer, and auto-install new hardware (AVR Dragon) on the computer
5. Start AVR Studio and the AVR Dragon Programming Dialog 
6. Connect AVR Dragon to the target

I assume that live connects/disconnects of the Dragon to the target board is acceptible, which, was my concern about the program release issue.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
Has anyone given any thoughts as to a suitable case? I would like to eventually buy say, three Dragons. The idea is that each Dragon has it's own dedicated case. One would strictly be dedicated to JTAG, one to ISP and Debug-Wire and, the third would be dedicated to High-Voltage programming.

Where There Be Dragons There Be Dragon Caves............ :wink:

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bluegoo wrote:
Quote:
Has anyone given any thoughts as to a suitable case? I would like to eventually buy say, three Dragons. The idea is that each Dragon has it's own dedicated case. One would strictly be dedicated to JTAG, one to ISP and Debug-Wire and, the third would be dedicated to High-Voltage programming.

Where There Be Dragons There Be Dragon Caves............ :wink:

Dark, damp and, dingy!!!

I wonder if one of svofski's Dark Boxes will work?

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
Dark, damp and, dingy!!!

My Dragon is thinking Clear Blue or Red Anodized....Bluegoo Dragon Skin! 8)

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Carl..

Put it into one of those transparent project cases.

That way you can still admire it...and also still see the LED :)

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Gwen wrote:
Carl..

Put it into one of those transparent project cases.

That way you can still admire it...and also still see the LED :)


I might. There is something nostalgic about seeing all of the circuitry and LED's flickering.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I can turn the Dragon into an emulator. I think that will ultimately dictate the case size.

We'll see how big the adapter board turns out to be.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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microcarl wrote:
And I wonder why the other Dragon recipients are so quiet! What have your experiences been with the Dragon? Don't let me and Johan be the only one who reveals their lack of knowledge about JTAG.

Good or bad, tell us so we don't have to make the same mistakes...

Simple reason; I'm still waiting. My Dragon's been "scheduled for delivery" three or so times, each time being sent back to the main distribution center without any explanation. DHL is now officially on my s**t list!

JTAG comments seems to make sense. I can't remember if the Program AVR window usually freezes my AVRs after programming - when programming with my JTAG I usually yank the cable anyway since if I needed it to remain connected I would be using it as a debug platform.

Bluegoo's had me intrigued by his "Dragon Cave" hints via PM for a few days, hence my tempoary signature change. I'm eagerly awaiting the photos and explanation he's promised :).

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
I might. There is something nostalgic about seeing all of the circuitry and LED's flickering.

My old PC..the one in the garage, has a clear case..it's really cool!

I saw some small clear project cases for sale....I will try and remember where.
I think they were just about right for the dragon and were 4$

Quote:
I wonder why the other Dragon recipients are so quiet!

After all your troubles I'm too scared to hook it up!
I need that Dragons For Dummies book!!!!!

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Gwen wrote:
Quote:
I might. There is something nostalgic about seeing all of the circuitry and LED's flickering.

My old PC..the one in the garage, has a clear case..it's really cool!

I saw some small clear project cases for sale....I will try and remember where.
I think they were just about right for the dragon and were 4$

Thanks Gwen.

Quote:
I wonder why the other Dragon recipients are so quiet!

After all your troubles I'm too scared to hook it up!
I need that Dragons For Dummies book!!!!!

Don't be! I think there are enough folks around here that can help you get it going. Besides, I think the major part of my problem was because of my own ignorance about JTAG and FUSE setting.

But you know all that now because of my silly mistake and then telling you about it, right?

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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I have noticed that on the back side of the Dragon PCB there are some holeless pads. It ocurs to me that Atmel has made a fixture to hold the board and do the programming and testing without ever attaching a cable to it.

This presents some ideas for programing future project boards of my own.

I have these little Gold plated spring loaded pins that I ordered from Digi-Key by mistake. These little pins would work perfectly for this purpose.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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IT'S HERE!!!!!! IT'S HERE!!!!!!

I got home to find it on my bed. Seems DHL decided to send it via a courier from the main distribution centre rather than via the normal process.

Just plugged it in, it's awesome!

- Dean :twisted:

EDIT: Damnit, I don't have any of the supported AVRs. And before I get any more AVRs I need a project idea to go along with it :?.

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

Last Edited: Wed. Jul 5, 2006 - 05:42 AM
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Carl, glad you fixed everything. :D

Quote:

Just plugged it in, it's awesome!

It's Atmel, isn't it ;)

Still trying to decide weather I should buy a AT90USBKey or a Dragon (when its available) or both 8)


My AVR Site

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Quote:
my AVRISP got crippled

WELL whaddyaknow SP3 fixed my crippled AVRISP!!! I noticed what seemed a new STK500 upgrader file so just for fun I tried to upgrade my AVRISP and it WORKED! even though it did not verify which could be understandable seeing that my 1200 code is a hack of a hack seeing that no one seems to be able to supply me with a good 1200 code for the AVRISP with a Mega8535 in it. I'm happy with V2.07 code in the AVRISP :)
Better post this on the original thread also in case someone else has this problem.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:
I have noticed that on the back side of the Dragon PCB there are some holeless pads

I just looked and I see them too :)

I think that headers seem easier to work with though....
Little springs would be flakey I think....

If you mount this in a case you could just snip the end off a usb cable
and then pass it through a hole in the case and solder onto the 4 pins on the dragon
where they come out the back of its USB connector thingie...they look big enough
to solder to.

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Quote:
Damnit, I don't have any of the supported AVRs

Get atmega168's they are my favorite :)

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Quote:
don't have any of the supported AVRs.

You can get ATMEGA32-16PI on line from Dontronics in Tullamarine. They are usually quite good and could be there next day. DON'T ORDER from Futurelec they delivery is useless, I have been waiting for a USB module from them for over a month, they took the money but no cigar, don't even answer my emails. :(

ps just checked Farnell's website and they have Tiny2313 in stock and the M32 also so you have a choice.

pps ...and the Meag168 too. They will deliver tomorrow if you place an order now....unless they send them by DHL that is :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Getting a Dragon compatible AVR isn't an issue (I need to stop by Altronics soon anyway for a new iPod battery), it's choosing the one(s) I want. Dan and I have been trying to think of a new and interesting open source project I could work on, but I haven't found one I like yet. I want it to be unique, not require ordering specialist parts from Tajikistan or $100 parts. I want it to be useful to the community and be of a reasonable complexity (not too simple, not impossible). I'm a hard man to please initially but when I get going with a project I usually don't stop :).

While I'm waiting I upgraded my Dragon's firmware, which went very smoothly. I consider being able to see the new M2560 a bonus! It's a real pity there's no schematics for the entire Dragon.

I wonder why it needs external SRAM (Samsung chip)? It must be for shared information between the M2560 and the M128, as I can't think of any other reason to need it...

- Dean :twisted:

PS: I think PMs with project ideas if any would be best, I don't want to be responsible for derailing yet another thread :roll:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
wonder why it needs external SRAM (Samsung chip)? It must be for shared information between the M2560 and the M128, as I can't think of any other reason to need it...

my guess...user hex program download memory buffer and/or emulation memory...I do not have one but if you have a JTAGII break it open and see if there is a big sram in it especiallly for Debug Wire.....I wonder how close the chip comparison between a Dragon and a JTAGII is?

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bluegoo wrote:
Quote:
wonder why it needs external SRAM (Samsung chip)? It must be for shared information between the M2560 and the M128, as I can't think of any other reason to need it...

my guess...user hex program download memory buffer and/or emulation memory...I do not have one but if you have a JTAGII break it open and see if there is a big sram in it especiallly for Debug Wire.....I wonder how close the chip comparison between a Dragon and a JTAGII is?

I'd say you're spot on the money, Blue. I grabbed a screwdriver and gave the AVR gods yet another reason to hate me :).

My poor little digital doesn't lend itself to closeups, so I'm afraid I can't provide high-res shorts of the JTAG internals. If anyone really wants to see what's in it, I can borrow my mum's super-mega-ultra-fantastic Sony and give it my best shot.

Inside the MKII is (suprisingly) two M128s, different to the Dragon's single M128 and M2560. This is possibly due to the JTAG-MKII being designed before the latter chip was in production.

Also in the MKII is a Samsung SRAM chip, with a different part number to the Dragon (K6R4008CIO-3C10). I'd suspect this is a larger SRAM chip which might suggest why the Dragon's limited in JTAGing abilities.

- Dean :twisted:

Attachment(s): 

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Thanks for the posting the pictures Dean...with your info it appears the Samsung Sram in the JtagII is a 4 MBIT device and the Samsung Sram in the Dragon is a 1 MBIT device...so considering they both have similar micros (except the Dragon has the newer 2560) my guess is that with the exception of available sram and firmware , inside the Dragon beats the heart of a JTAGICE 3 !!!!!! :twisted:

Are you still looking for a good project for your new Dragon ?
......hardware provided/ firmware is the challenge ! :roll:

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Interesting that once you eliminate the RS232 interface components, the case, the flat ribbon cable, and the switch in the JtagIceII....the component cost is probably very close to the Dragon..especially considering the two most expensive chips in the design Atmel makes!!!!
....last time I checked I believe a 4mbit sram drops in a 1 mbit pinout (32 pin landing but I could be wrong) if the additional address lines are wired up! Since the AVR only supports 64k external sram they have to page address the additional memory anyway.
I am still thinking Dragon is really a JtagIce 3 in disguise/waiting to happen!

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looking very closely at your pictures it looks like possibly they brought the jtag header 2x5 and ISP header 2x3 for each mega128 over to the side of the pcb! Maybe Production pcb design was previously a prototype design too!
pcb has something similar on the Dragon...I am guessing they can jtag/test/isp (2x5 pads) both the micros from the underside of the pcb on a "bed of nails".

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microcarl wrote:
After removal of the existing AVRStudio, build 485 and, the installation of the AVRStudio and SP3, build 488...
...I then decided to move over to the STK500 ISP. I was then asked to upgrade the firmware in the STK500, and I did. But I was not able to read any chip ID's with it either. Whereas: the STK500 has been working flawlessly for months. Yet, I was unable to read any chip ID. I had been usint the STK500 all day so, I knew it was working.

When I upgraded AVR Studio to build 488, I have not seen any suggestions to upgrade STK500 firmware.
Build 488 simply connected to STK500 as before:

Detecting on 'COM1'...
STK500 with V2 firmware found on COM1
Getting revisions.. HW: 0x02, SW Major: 0x02, SW Minor: 0x07 .. OK

All basic operations with Atmega32 Ok, too:

Setting mode and device parameters.. OK!
Entering programming mode.. OK!
Reading lockbits .. 0xFF .. OK!
Leaving programming mode.. OK!

Entering programming mode.. OK!
Reading fuses .. 0x9F, 0x3F .. OK!
Leaving programming mode.. OK!

Entering programming mode.. OK!
Reading signature .. 0x1E, 0x94, 0x03 .. OK!
Leaving programming mode.. OK!

Microcarl, sorry, but... haven't You forgotten this:

Quote:
Firmware Upgrade
In order to achieve successful firmware upgrade, make sure that all cables and devices are removed from the target area of the STK500.

?

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Quote:
Microcarl, sorry, but... haven't You forgotten this:
Quote:
Firmware Upgrade
In order to achieve successful firmware upgrade, make sure that all cables and devices are removed from the target area of the STK500.

?


No, I didn't forget that.

And I know that build 488 upgraded my STK500 because, when I went back to build 485, and connected the STK500, AVRStudio said that there was version x.07 and that AVRStudio, build 485 build required The STK500 to have build x.04. So how esle would I have gotten a higher version of the firmware in the STK500, except that AVRStudio upgrade my STK500. And I specifically remember AVRStudio, build 488 asking me to upgrade the STK500 because I always shutter when I have to do an firmware upgrade on anything.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
I am still thinking Dragon is really a JtagIce 3 in disguise/waiting to happen!

OR a STK600 ?? Just remove the 8535 bits of the STK500 and replace it with the Dragon bits??

On another matter the fact that the DWEN bit is left on at the end of the session is a little disconcerting given that I spent about half an hour last night trying to ISP the tiny2313 which was used by the Dragon with my newly revived AVRISP. I thought it had died again untill the light came on and remebered to turn off DWEN :(

:idea: DEV team suggestion: have a check box in the Dragon options to bring up a "disable DWEN" yes/no box whenever either the project is closed or stop debugging. This may also apply to the JTAGICEMK2 I suppose.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Just checked my STK500's firmware and it is 2.07 so it must have been upgraded by SP3 I guess even though I don't remember doing so, perhaps I went into mental paralysis and a short coma when I was asked to upgrade and clicled ok :?
BUT I do remember the disaster with SP2 upgrade of my AVRISP :(

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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JS, thanks for the confirmation that SP3 did at least change the STK500 firmware.

I bet that if you go back to SP2, it'll sure ask.

I have ocasionally upgraded the BOIS in a few of my notebooks. Each time I do, I am fearful that I will end up with nothing more then a pile of highly refined petroleum by-product and processed beach sand. I feel that way about all firmware upgrades.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
if you go back to SP2

Definetely NOT!! :lol: But I'm not having any of the problems you describe everything seems well. I hardly use the STK500, still waiting for the fatefull day I'll need HV programming, but I can read the the chip. One thing I have noticed though is that the VTG goes back to zero on upgrade and therefore nothing will work, did you check the VTG and the VREF with SP3? May be that's what happened to you.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:

Quote:
One thing I have noticed though is that the VTG goes back to zero on upgrade and therefore nothing will work, did you check the VTG and the VREF with SP3? May be that's what happened to you.

No, I checked that and I haf 5.1 at Vtg and 5.0 at Vref.

I think it was more that when I was messing with the fuses, I in-advertently turned off the JTAG and serial programming fuses.

It's all good now, except for the RESET hang after programming using JTAG. In ISP programming, RESET is released and the target program runs.

Maybe Johan is right! I should just program using ISP and, enjoy the coffee. Or, maybe I'll just take a nap as, I usually only run on 4 to 5 hours of sleep each day.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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