JFYI: Updated:AVR Studio 4.12 SP3 beta build 488(30.06.2006)

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Last Edited: Fri. Jun 30, 2006 - 04:59 PM
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Quote:
4424: The AVR Assembler now accepts underscore ('_') as a separator anywhere in numbers. The separator is ignored when interpreting the number.

What a shame RetroDan is no longer here to enjoy it!

Quote:
4483: AVR Studio failed to read all memory content from some object files with bootloader sections. This has been fixed.

And thanks for fixing this one! (it's the only Studio bug that's ever really affected me)

Cliff

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Quote:
AVR Studio 4.12 with Service Pack 3 installed supports the AVR Dragon low-cost emulator and programmer. See the "Tools and Software" section at http://www.atmel.com/products/avr/ for more information about the AVR Dragon.

Anybody know more about this? I can't see anything about it on Atmel's web page.

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lfmorrison wrote:
Quote:
AVR Studio 4.12 with Service Pack 3 installed supports the AVR Dragon low-cost emulator and programmer. See the "Tools and Software" section at http://www.atmel.com/products/avr/ for more information about the AVR Dragon.

Anybody know more about this? I can't see anything about it on Atmel's web page.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/advanced_search_results.asp?device=1&tools=1&faqs=1&datasheets=1&appNotes=1&userGuides=1&software=1&press=1&articles=1&flyers=1&checkAll=1&checkAllReference=1&target=Dragon

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lfmorrison wrote:

Anybody know more about this? I can't see anything about it on Atmel's web page.

There is something, but not too much, at this link:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3891

Pop

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Thanks.

I guess I looked too soon; I had tried the exact same search bmildner referred to, but it didn't return any results for me the first time.

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Luke,

I just went scanning through the menus in build 485 to see if I could spot anything new. While in Help-tools I found a large new section about "AVR Dragon" as well as the "Dragon update" entry now on the Tools menu.

Cliff

PS It'll be intersting to see "how much" but it looks like a VERY interesting little product!

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Quote:
What a shame RetroDan is no longer here to enjoy it!

Don't be too sure....he/she may be lurking under a different name. Whatever the case I'm still here and I will enjoy any improvements to the assembler, it has come a long way...and I love it!! :-)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js ...as long as they keep making the assembler better you may just put off that progress you are making in C right? :)

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Quote:
progress you are making in C right?

ahhh...what's that? :wink: :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Wow, a billion of the plural of kudos to you for pointing this out - I missed it! Downloading now and hoping it won't break anything - with my GCC4.1 pre-release i'll be on the real bleeding edge...

JS: Yes, RetroDan's still lurking and still stealing. I've been unhappy to see several posts made by legitimate users over at his AVRWarez forum, though thankfully no-one seems to reply to them. I think I'm just about the only registered user at his forum though, and all I use it for is checking what he's stealing :D.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the Dragon just a limited (in AVR support) STK500 without the LEDs/Pushbuttons and with onboard JTAG-MKII capabilities?

EDIT:

Quote:
4487: The GCC plug-in added an extra UL postfix to the frequency setting each time the General property page was modified.
The UL postfix is now no longer used in the user interface, but is silently added to the build options.

I use Programmers Notepad, but I can see this one in particular helping out a lot of newbies.
Quote:
Implemented warning when using 'call' & interrupts without SP being initialized.

And I can see this one reducing a LOT of ASM-related problem posts here ;)

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

Last Edited: Sat. Jun 17, 2006 - 02:03 PM
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abcminiuser wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the Dragon just a limited (in AVR support) STK500 without the LEDs/Pushbuttons and with onboard JTAG-MKII capabilities?

That seems to be exactly what it is. So if they can knock it out for $50 it'd sell like the proverbial hotcakes! Even at $80, the same as the STK500, getting a USB rather than RS232 PC connection and a JTAG thrown into the mix would still be great value.

Cliff

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abcminiuser wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the Dragon just a limited (in AVR support) STK500...

My understanding of the promotional material is that Atmel plans to give the Dragon full support for ISP/HVSP/PP/JTAGProg programming of every AVR model from the tiniest Tiny11 to the biggest Mega 256. It will only have onboard support for installing DIP packages of 40 pins or less, but the capability will be available for routing the programming signals off-board to any target you like across the full spectrum of AVR devices.

Quote:
...and with onboard JTAG-MKII capabilities?

...for on-chip debug of devices with 32 kB of Flash or less.

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Hmmm, I'm failing to see a market for this -- but I'm not much of an economics person.

It seems to me that Atmel would do well to make an updated STK500 instead, with a single AVR controller and USB support. LEDs and pushbuttons are incredibly cheap, and much of the cos of a STK500/JTAG could be reduced by combining the two tools in the fashion of the Dragon since the one hardware (single controller, single level shifters, etc) would be used for both devices. I'm sure Atmel could pump out "STK500V2"s for about the same end user cost of the current STK500, since there must be a decent profit margin in the existing design anyway. The dragon looks interesting, but it just seems like too much of a hassle to get working. I'd rather a "super" STK500/JTAG system at the still respectable cost of US$80 anyway. Well, so sayeth the man who has both ;).

- Dean :twisted:

EDIT: Hmm, 9000 typos. Looks like i'm more tired than I realised :?

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Dean,

But if the JTAG only supported the "old family" chips it would still be worth $30+, yet there seems to be a promise of JTAG support for the "modern" ones too which means it seems to be offering to do what only a $299 JTAGICE mkII currently offers. (unless I've missed the point?)

Cliff

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Point taken, yes this Dragon would supersede the JTAGMKI in debugging capabilities, and would be roughly equivalent to the JTAGMKII (with target size limitations) at a cheaper price. Essentially this is a cheap STK500 and a cheap JTAGMKII combined.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, anything Atmel is right next to godliness in my opinion. I'm just saying that it would be my preference -- and the preference of some professionals I believe -- to have a STK500 equivalent. I wouldn't want to have to mess around with installing my own DIPs, routine my own headers, etc. Having a combined fully featured STK500/JTAGMKII would drive the price down significantly on both items, yet retain the quality, ease of use and the features of both.

I wouldn't say no to a Dragon, and I can definitely see a honking great big market with home hobbyists (much like myself, with the exception of myself!) however I think Atmel needs to produce a slightly more expensive and fully featured "professional" version like the STK500. The dragon shows how combining two expensive devices can result in a net benefit of a lower price, but if I needed a new programming board I'd want the extra features the Dragon omits.

I'm probably making myself look like a right idiot, so I think I'll have to re-think this in the morning when my head is clear!

- Dean :twisted:

EDIT: STK500 + JTAGMKII = MUCH cheaper than the two separate devices, more convenient, unified USB interface and power.

STK500 + JTAGMKII - Some Features - Some Usability = MUCH cheaper than the two separate devices, sold as Dragon.

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Dean,

I can't help thinking "professionals" won't mind at all if it involves procuring and soldering on a couple of headers or a DIP socket myself ;)

By the way, how did you feel about soldering 4/6/10 pin headers onto your Butterfly when you first got it ;) ;)

The ready built-ness of the STK500 surely appeals more to hobbyists/beginners who want something "ready to run" with no effort involved.

Cliff

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The STK500 has all the possible sockets wired in at once, and will work for the entire (current) family of DIP AVRs. From what I can tell of the Dragon, you can only solder in a couple yourself onto the board. I like the fact that with the STK500 all I have to do is plug in my AVR into the correct socket, plug the ISP cable into the appropriate socket and away I go - that's brilliant design. This seems more like an AVRISP combined with half a JTAK-MKII. It's incredibly neat, but I want all the features of both respective products, with the obligatory price drop from using less components.

Of course the Dragon is a VERY nice product as it stands, and will save the newbies here from having to purchase several devices, and makes JTAGing more accessible. I just think that given the choice of a $80 Dragon (pulling random price out of thin air for the moment) and say a $100 "Dragon500" with sockets, LEDs, port headers and push buttons like the STK500, i'd choose the latter. As I've said, perhaps I'm looking at this from the wrong angle, since I already own the full version of both respective devices, and thus am used to their full set of features. I want to be clear that I think this is a good product, but I just wish/hope there will be a version available with the full feature set.

As for the "how did you feel", the answer is "very cranky!" :D. Actually, my original Butterfly actually sat by itself for a good 8 months or so (used as a practical demonstration to house visitors of my hobby) before I finally had the ButtLoad inspiration. Come to think of it, my critisisms probably stem from the fact that I am a very software orientated person and so prefer to have the hardware as easy to set up and use as possible.

I'm going to have to put a "please ignore me" disclaimers on all my posts :roll:. Bed time for me.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Hi folks,

this is also covered by a thread on the main forum but:

AVR Dragon will support all programming modes of all 8 bit AVR micros.
In addition it will support dW debugging of all devices with dW interface.
It will support JTAG debugging of all mega devices with <= 32K flash. For larger devices you must go with the JTAGICE mkII
It supports 300mA regulated 5V to the target (your PC must be able to deliver 500mA USB power).
The recommended retail is $49.
Introduction of AVR Dragon will not discontinue any of the other products.

Volume will ramp end July.

regards dag @ atmel.

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Hi all on this thread

just to show that we appreciate your input and enthusiasm: All of you that has posted on this thread prior to this message will receive one AVR Dragon for free from the first batch. Send your shipping address to avr@atmel.com and we will handle the rest.

Regards
dag @ atmel.

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OH MY GOD!!!! Thanks for this unbelievably generous offer. Just glad I've got a big gob now!

Bet you can't tell us yet how much they are really going to retail for? (Whatever it is it looks like a cracking piece of kit)

Cliff

EDIT: learn to read Cliff, learn to read! FIFTY bucks, oh boy this could blow a lot of other 8 bit dev systems completely out of the water.

Last Edited: Thu. Jun 22, 2006 - 12:21 PM
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Do I qualify, given my initial scepticism? Nothing like having it in your hot little hands to make a man see the light... :D

EDIT: Oh wait, that was the other thread - sending my details now :lol:. Thanks!

EDIT2: Damnit, it WAS this thread. Oh well :S.

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

Last Edited: Thu. Jun 22, 2006 - 12:25 PM
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Oh Drat, I knew I shouldn't lurk.. :)

Oh well.. still cheap enough to buy I reckon :-D I really need that debugWIRE for a stack of tiny13's..

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Hi Dean

yes, you qualify. My job is to win over the sceptics.

There are two threads that qualify, one on this forum, one on the general AVR forum. Some have posted on both. I have written down the author names.

regards
dag @ atmel

regards
dag @ atmel

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Dag,

I posted in this thread and STARTED the other - does that mean I get two? ;)

(not serious by the way!)

Cliff

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Info sent. Thanks heaps! While you're here, please say thanks to the hardware designers, the MKII products are amazing!

EDIT: Oh, totally awesome! New online support ticketing system!

- Dean :twisted:

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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OK I send my shipping address, I guess we will need to be the guinea pigs, but it will be worthed :-)
edit: this is almost as good as scraping in for the next round at the world cup :wink: Italy vs Australia, I'll win both ways and can cheer for both teams simultaneously :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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hmmm I wonder how the Dragon will debug the Mega8 since it does not have DW or Jtag....perhaps there is something we don't know about the M8.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Is there any way I can pre-date a reply to this thread? :lol:

Well, it's worth a try.

Jim

Your message here - reasonable rates.

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I'm not bitter about not getting a free one :lol:, as long as they turn up in quantity at distributors (Digikey, etc) in quantity and relatively soon, Hopefully the chinese guys have already had it in production for a while, and there's enough stock to go around, unlike the USBKEY and Butterfly currently. :roll:

That said, Thanks ATMEL for making debugWIRE affordable! Awesome! :D

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js wrote:
hmmm I wonder how the Dragon will debug the Mega8 since it does not have DW or Jtag....perhaps there is something we don't know about the M8.

The "Device Support" table in the AVR Dragon help files shows that ATmega8 is only supported for ISP and HVPP; no OCD support.

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Quote:

hmmm I wonder how the Dragon will debug the Mega8 since it does not have DW or Jtag....

Well, the most reasonable assumption is that the Dragon will not support debugging (emulation) of/on the mega8 at all. The Dragon does support ISP and High Voltage Parallell Programming for the mega8.

You shouldn't think of the Dragon as a JTAG emulation device only. It's a high voltage serial programmer, a high voltage parallell programmer, a ISP programmer, a JTAG programmer, a JTAG emulator and a debugWire emulator. (That is why $49 is such an incredible deal!)

This is all clear from the documentation that came with the Studio SP3 that was what started this thread in the first place. This documentation is, amazingly enough, written with latin letters forming words and sentenses in the english language... :wink:

As of January 15, 2018, Site fix-up work has begun! Now do your part and report any bugs or deficiencies here

No guarantees, but if we don't report problems they won't get much of  a chance to be fixed! Details/discussions at link given just above.

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Excellent tool! Returning from my long AVR slumber, I´ve been meaning to invest in a JTAG ICE (only reason is economics) just to start learning real-time debugging, but I´ve been thinking it to be stupid of me to buy a tool that´s not supported anymore. Will now wait for the new tool though.

Bought myself a Butterfly nonetheless and will use this weekend to start playing with it. Managed to talk two of my friends into buying one as well. They've been interrested in starting with uCs and I just had to try getting them into AVRs :wink:

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Quote:
all clear from the documentation that came with the Studio SP3

...if you have it :wink: I'll wait untill I have "The Dragon" before upgrading, there may be some fixing up happening, also I still haven't fully recovered from getting SP2 and messing up my AVRISP :(
Quote:
written with latin letters

wasn't very good in Latin I'm afraid, I guess I could use babelfish or something similar :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Topic header updated due to new build (see first post)

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Well, if You e-mailed to avr@atmel.com and did not recieved any answer in 3 days, probably Your letter gone to the black hole :(
I repeated mine from another address and recieved robot reply with ticket number in a couple of minutes, and the letter with confirmation afterwards .

From Atmel support:

Quote:
Question

I have sent several emails to you from my email address, myname@web.de. Why do I never get a reply from avr@atmel.com?

Answer

We at avr@atmel.com answer all queries in 3 working days, but unfortunately there is a problem with users from web.de .

web.de has a capacity problem with its mailserver. Close to all the messages we send to users at web.de bounce at the web.de server.

Please note that this is not a problem we at Atmel can do anything with. We recommend you to get another email user (e.g. a free one from hotmail, yahoo, gmail etc.) and resend your question.

My first attempt was from mailserver other than web.de, nevertheless the problem was similar...