avrisp insanity

Go To Last Post
21 posts / 0 new
Author
Message
#1
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hello:

I have a new avrisp module (gray box) that studio (version 4.11 build 410 serv pack3) said needs upgraded. I used stk500.ebn (date 1/31/05) to update---shorted two pins on the module for 5 sec, hit flash prog.

It programmed & verified. Was only providing 5V & gnd to the module. If I immediately hit the "AVR" button (such as to down load my appplication code) it comes up with the no-communication, please selct com port message. This is whether I cycle power, get out & into studio, cross my fingers, etc.

Obvioulsy the overall studio system CAN talk to the module since I can reprogram it as often as I like! It just won't communicatew when I hit the "AVR" button to program MY processor.

Also, the little LED no longer lights up---so am I using the correct file to down load? If not, please point me to it. Any other thoughts?

When upgrading the module, under advance settings I get: mode 1 blb0 mode2 blb1 mode 1
fuse bits--all grayed out
startup 64ms + 258 ck
sig: 1e9308
targ: avrisp
targ sw: 4.0
cal 0xb1

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I'm on my 4th or 5th avrisp for reasons like that. (ya, jumper wire blah blah blah I know)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Maybe some smart hw person could design an avrisp jumper cap and some smart sw person could write a little avrisp loopback test and hundeds or thousands of dead? avrisps could be tested and maybe returned to service. I hate to throw something out if it really isnt broke. If its just one pin fried, there might be a way to just use the next pin in the port. Am I cheep or what?

Imagecraft compiler user

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Just wait for the new USB ATAVRISP mkII arrival.

It has been announced to be supported by the AVR Studio v4.12, that has been released as a beta (built 450, RC1).
More about 4.12: https://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

Giorgos.

EDIT: Have a glimpse inside the mkII:

Attachment(s): 

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well I'm not sure why any pin would be fried...the avrisp must be able to talk to the PC, since it downloads the file & verifies. But as soon as I hit the "AVR" button, the no-communication, "please select port " box pops up. So I am wondering if I am indeed downloading the correct file. I can't seem to find it on Atmel's site either.

When in the dark remember-the future looks brighter than ever.   I look forward to being able to predict the future!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Ive run into problems with upgrading. Now when I get a new avrisp I always click 'cancel' when it tries to upgrade. Old firmware works wonderfully.

The usbavrisp looks nice, any chance the price will be near $29?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Does that paper clip come with the JTAG MkII ? ;-)

/Jesper
http://www.yampp.com
The quick black AVR jumped over the lazy PIC.
What boots up, must come down.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Hi avrcandies. The ATAVRISP has two chips inside; download the schematics from Atmel.

The first chip is an AT90S8535, the actual ISP programmer, and communicates with the PC using the "STK500 Communication Protocol v2.0".
The second chip is an AT90S1200, the above S8535 firmware upgrader, and communicates with the PC using the "AVR910 In-System Programming" Application Note Protocol.

In your case, in my understanding, the AT90S8535 refuses to communicate. Why?
Has the ATAVRISP upgrade procedure been succesfully done (with verification success)? I guess not.
Have you overstressed -beyond their voltage limmits- the ISP I/Os (MOSI, MISO, SCK, /RESET)? If the answer is positive check the transient suppressor, the "U2", for shorts. If there is a short-circuit there, the S8535 programming is impossible.

Giorgos.

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:
Does that paper clip come with the JTAG MkII ? ;-)

Isn't it the officially suggested manually-firmware-upgrade tool? :shock:

I hope for nothing; I fear nothing; I am free. (Nikos Kazantzakis)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I've only lost one AVRISP in the past two years. This was due to my own fault. I somehow got 24VDC in one if the SPI pins of the AVRISP while it was plugged into my target proto-type. It also took out the Mega8535, as well. Fortunately, the Mega8535 was in a PLCC socket and could be easily replaced. The AVRISP was dead, dead, dead.

I have since bought two new AVRISP's, both of which were upgraded the AVRISP firmware successfully, without any undesireable effects. I am currently using AVRStudio, 4.11, Build 401. I think, after reading several post in the past, that I am using a "Down-Rev" version of AVRStudio, which is probably why I have had no issues like what is being described. I can't see that I have any imediate reason to upgrade AVRStudio, so I won't, until there is some resolution to the "On-Going" compatiblity issue possibilities.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

I've only lost one AVRISP in the past two years. This was due to my own fault. I somehow got 24VDC in one if the SPI pins of the AVRISP while it was plugged into my target proto-type. It also took out the Mega8535, as well. Fortunately, the Mega8535 was in a PLCC socket and could be easily replaced. The AVRISP was dead, dead, dead.

I have since bought two new AVRISP's, both of which were upgraded the AVRISP firmware successfully, without any undesireable effects. I am currently using AVRStudio, 4.11, Build 401. I think, after reading several post in the past, that I am using a "Down-Rev" version of AVRStudio, which is probably why I have had no issues like what is being described. I can't see that I have any imediate reason to upgrade AVRStudio, so I won't, until there is some resolution to the "On-Going" compatiblity issue possibilities.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

My avrisp has been working fine for months, and just as this thread comes up it stops working again. It does the blinky light thing but when I try to do something: "Getting revisions... FAILED" Havnt seen this one yet.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

nevermind. the paperclip brought it back to life. I was scared for a few minutes.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Mine took a couple tries to get figured out with the update. I had to take a 2 by 5 header and hook +5 and Gnd to it so nothing else was connected. Then it took the update, but appeared dead till I connected it to a real avr in a real circuit.

---
Formerly Torby. Stitch626 just seemed a more descriptive nicname.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

After upgrading I thought everything on my circuit broke because the avrisp lights were out and my chip acted dead despite its 5 volts. Turning the power off and on did nothing, I was convinced everything was fried until a few minutes later I turned it back on and everything worked like normal.

There has to be an easier way. Why does it take 2 chips?? Are they sure it cant be done a simpler way with 1 chip?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Well, actually a PC parallel port and 4 resistors. If I'd known that, I wouldn't have bought the isp for $25 a couple years ago :lol:

---
Formerly Torby. Stitch626 just seemed a more descriptive nicname.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Quote:

Well, actually a PC parallel port and 4 resistors. If I'd known that, I wouldn't have bought the isp for $25 a couple years ago

Here we go on Round 13 of this debate.

--How do you handle ISP for 3V AVR designs with the 4-resistor setup? How do you handle 2V designs?

--How do you handle the slower ISP speed needed for new 1MHz chips? If you've got that handled, what do you do for a full Mega64 app--just program real slow as the least-common-denominator?

--How do you handle setting up another of the 4-resistor dongles for production on a PC that is much slower/faster than the one you used for development?

--How do you handle the above case when your dev machine was not protected-mode Windows, but the production machine is?

--How do you handle true ISP (with a complete System) where the cable needs to be several meters long, or even longer? ["Hold the back of the PC to a few cm from the target" is not :) and acceptable answer.]

--How do you handle varying parallel port pin drive, especially on wimpy laptops?

If it works for y'all, great. Then how come I've seen hunderds & hundreds of posts on theis Forum in the last 4.5 years about problems with parallel port ISP programmers?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

Last Edited: Mon. Oct 3, 2005 - 01:25 AM
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

OK, you guys are really confusing me. I have read the AVRISP Users guide that comes with Studio, and it never mentions the shorting of those two internal pins unless power is interrupted while programming. I'm getting ready to use this gizmo for the first time, (well everything for the first time, actually), so do I need to use these pins or not if Studio tells me I need to upgrade?

I had asked about this procedure before, and everyone made this sound so simple.

Is this hijacking a thread? I hope not as, to me, a beginner, it sort of follows along the original line of subject. Sorry if anyone feels otherwise.

Steve

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

outer_space wrote:
After upgrading I thought everything on my circuit broke because the avrisp lights were out and my chip acted dead despite its 5 volts. Turning the power off and on did nothing, I was convinced everything was fried until a few minutes later I turned it back on and everything worked like normal.

There has to be an easier way. Why does it take 2 chips?? Are they sure it cant be done a simpler way with 1 chip?


When the ATAVRISP was first released, there was no such thing as a self-programming AVR core. That is, there was no way to incorporate a bootloader directly in the AT90S8535.

So, in order to allow the ATAVRISP to accept firmware upgrades, it was necessary to include a means of external programming. There were lots of options: maybe include an STK200 dongle with each ATAVRISP, which will only ever be used for upgrading the ISP"s firmware. Or, include a bitbashed serial-port dongle that has the same effect.

But, the extra parallel-port dongle was the opposite of simplicity: how would the end-user know which port he should plug in to?

The bitbashed serial option was impractical: how does the ATAVRISP distinguish an STK500-protocol command from a bitbashed firmware upgrade sequence for the ATAVRISP itself?

They already had a mature asynchronous serial programming protocol (speficied in AVR910 appnote), and so I guess it just made sense to use it as a means of upgrading the ATAVRISP's firmware as necessary. The AVR910 programmer itself should never need a firmware upgrade, because it was already well-tested for the purpose of programming the AT90S8535, and that's the only chip that the AVR910 programmer inside the ATAVRISP would ever have to talk to...

The better question is, now that they've done away with the legacy ATAVRISP, will the mkII use a bootloader-ready part such as the ATmega8535? In that case, it will finally be practical to do away with the second firmware-upgrade-only chip.

- Luke

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

If you guys ever need something released to the public faster than what you feel it's taking, just convince me to buy the old technology. The new will be out before I receive my order.

I just purchased the ATAVRISP, and now here comes the new one. I also just purchased my 2.4GHz cordless phone, but this was a cost-consideration decision. I'm Scottish and cheap.

So do you think Studio will support the new AVRISP and also the old one, and will Studio differentiate between the two when upgrading firmware? Atmel isn't one of those companies that force you to upgrade stuff, are they?

Steve

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Total votes: 0

Blackbeard:
One of the supposed "great new features" of the classic ATAVRISP's latest major firmware revision (2.x) was the fact that it's now supposed to take all of the programming parameters for any of its supported AVRs out of a common set of XML files which is updated with each new release of Studio.

The theory was that it would now be possible to add support for new devices without ever having to release any more new versions of the AVRISP's firmware (except maybe for bugfixes, which has happened at least once so far since 2.0 was released).

If they remain true to that ideal, then it should be a simple matter to keep support for the classic ATAVRISP up-to-date without very much (if any) specific development effort on Atmel's part. Let's hope Atmel chooses to go down that route.

But I'm still upset by their decision to suspend support for the original JTAG ICE. Their official position, once the JTAGICE mkII came along, was that they'd continue to provide the same level of functionality for the original JTAGICE in future releases of AVR Studio, but they would not make any effort to extend it to support future devices.

In the worst case, I can imagine a similar situation with the original ATAVRISPs -- you will always be able to use them in the future for the exact same things you can do today, but you won't be able to use them for as-yet unreleased devices. I hope Atmel does not decide to go down that route.