Note: mega103, PVM & Studio4

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This is merely a note to those of you who are interested in debugging Timers/Counters with Studio4...

I've just spend 40 minutes debugging PVM mode for C/T0, as nothing happened on the associated pin PB4.

After trying it in Studio3.53, all worked just fine...

Thanks Atmel... Great job wasting my time!

- Philip

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Gentlemen,

This message is but one of many that lately has put me in a BAD mood. And yes, I intend to blow of some steam now: (Philip; my bad mood is not entirely your doing, but your email proves my point :)

Your message is 100% great until the last line. This single line transform a good bug report into a rude one.

The tone of voice in your message serves two purposes:
1. Discurraging Atmel from releasing public BETA modules. (Do we want that?)
2. Reporting an actual bug in a very negative way. (Reportin bugs = good. Tone of voice = bad)

We are all for Reporting bugs and stupid Studio 4 behaviour, I encourage and welcome it! But PLEASE try not to be constuctive. (Yes I know, sometimes it can be difficult!!)

The AVR Studio 4 simulator is BETA. You only need AVR Studio 4 if you own an ICE50. (The ICE50 emulator stuff is release versions.)
If you had spent 1 minute reading the Release Note you would have found this - and saved your 40 minutes.

Too ALL AVRfreaks users: Before being rude to the Studio Developers, stop and think for a minute if you really want to discurage these guys from releasing beta modules, and partisipating in this open forum!

NOTE:
This message is _NOT_ a seed for further discussion. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me. I expect rude messages to stop!

As webmaster here on AVRfreaks, we were very pleased that The Atmel AVR Studio 4 developers actually agreed to partisipate in our forum. But I'm frankly a bit embarrased of the behaviour of some of you posting messages here!

This Forum will be formed by each and every one of us that participates. Lets make it a GOOD one!!

Thanks for listening!
(I feel better already ;)

Webmaster
AVRfreaks.net

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sounds fair to me! We don't want to scare Atmel away either, its nice to have them here! Sorry if some of my messages came off as against Atmel, but they are more general comments (or me not proof-reading messages)! I'm very happy Atmel has released the new Studio, and as I mentioned i think in general the AVR's rule!

But I guess you shouldn't mess with the network admin either or...

"Username c_oflynn not found" ;)

-Colin

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Point taken... :)

- Philip

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Well well,
after making programs and solutions for some years now, I think we can handle critisism, both constructive and less so...
A little freakness should be tolerated here! There has been more than one moment I have been staring at the screen cursing some developer of programs I am more or less forced to use. Computerprograms are still a young art, and I still sometimes get surprised when they actually works.

Anyway, we do not scare easily. We will not go away. A parent do not put a child up for adoption because someone points to it and claims it is ugly.

Lars K
Developer of studio4 and waster of time.

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>Anyway, we do not scare easily. We will not go away.
>A parent do not put a child up for adoption because someone
>points to it and claims it is ugly.

Mine did =:-o

/?

admin's test signature
 

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I probably should keep my mouth shut on this, but it irks me that a professional that I may depend on for support seems to be displaying a problem working with his customers.

I am referring to the posting here by the unnamed webmaster. This person is complaining about the TONE of a posting and yet, his tone is very stern and rude. He even goes on to say that he does not care if you agree or disagree and he does not want to discuss it.

I understand that the webmaster may be having a bad day and that was upset about other issues. This happens to us all. But of all people, the webmaster is a professional and should be showing the most restraint and displaying the greatest courtesy of any posting here. You can think of this as posting by example.

I also understand that it gets very tiring to listen to complaints about products and tools when the user is not very professional. But that is part of the job. Many of us have learned that we can not expect a new tool or product to work perfectly when it is first introduced and that we don't need to shoot the messenger. But others have not learned this and become frustrated when they encounter major problems. This frustration shows up in messages that are not as polite as they should be. Most support people have learned this or quickly learn it after dealing with customers for a short while. That is why I am so surprised that the webmaster of this site does not seem to have learned it.

To be honest, after reading this post and an email I received a few days ago from the AVRFreaks web site maintainers, I have my doubts that I want to work with Atmel parts. It appears that they have decided to use AVRFreaks as an essential part of their support process and I don't know if the people behind the web site are professional enough for me to work with.

admin's test signature
 

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It would, I think, be good to back off from this whole thread for a while, whilst keeping in mind that:

- AVRFreaks is a very useful web site.
- Atmel chips are easy to use and program.
- There is a thriving AVR community for ideas, support and information.

These are what I see as the important points, and still will be when the flames stop flying.

Sean.

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Rick !

You may be beating the wrong bush here.

As far as I know, AVRFreaks has NO connection with Atmel.

The confusion may have arisen because some people from Atmel's development team is monitoring the forum and commenting/answering on topics.

/Jesper
www.yampp.com

/Jesper
http://www.yampp.com
The quick black AVR jumped over the lazy PIC.
What boots up, must come down.

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Hi all,

Reading the thread, there seems to be some misunderstandings that should be sorted out.

AVRfreaks.net:
--------------
AVRfreaks.net is an independently run site. It is run by a group of interrested and dedicated people: "AVRfreaks". We are not an official Atmel AVR site. Our views have as much in common with atmel as any other views found in any AVR newsgroup or mailinglist.

Webmaster @ AVRfreaks:
----------------------
The reason why the previous email (and this one for that matter) is written as anonymous "webmaster" is the simple fact that we are multiple "webmasters" who perform the same function. Sometimes we sign with our individual names, and sometimes we sign in as "webmaster". (Most of us are working full hours on "decent" jobs, and to make some sort of continuity, everyone that is working on freaks at any given time is _the_ webmaster. ("We are Borg" comes to mind..)

Atmels involvement with/on AVRfreaks:
-------------------------------------
As said, AVRfreaks.net is not an Atmel site, but we take great pride in the fact that more AVR professionals are using this site for their AVR information needs than any other site! The fact that it seems that even Atmel recognizes this and choses to activly seek out this forum and be visible here should not be heldt against them. We aim to always be the number one resource on AVR info on the web. To acheive this we need good people, healthy discussions and up to date information. I think we have proved the year we have been online that this is infact the kind of quality you can expect to find on AVRfreaks.net

AVRfreaks.net has now more than 13000 registered users, and we have more than 1 million hits a week. Our forum is open for everybody, and unlike most sites we do not have Moderators in our forums. Everyone can freely write whatever they want here. So far we have not deleted a single post!! This is actually quite unique, and shows that our users are responsible and professional AVR users! This freedom comes with responsibility, and the previous email is a statement that we do infact follow the discussions here, and we do intend to let you know if we feel that the discussion is heading in a "disturbing" direction. (One of you correctly points out that my reply was maybe even more "insulting" than the quite harmless letter that started it all. He is 100% correct. What I hoped for was:

"If you after reading the last mail stop and think 2-3 seconds before dashing out an posting - then our work here is done, and we can quitely sit back, relax and enjoy the discussion in the 15000 next postings."

Don't be affraid to ask questions. You may even yell at the designers and give them a hard time! (It definitly seems Mr. Lars Kvenild can handle it :) All I ask is that you all throw your punches above the waistline....and everybody that watches Boxing know that they pull up those shorts mighty high. :)

Does it make sense guys?

once again:
webmaster
AVRfreaks.net

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Webmaster,

While I agree that making nasty comments to or about Atmel or their software is of no benefit, I urge you to consider that beraring those who post here is not beneficial, either.

And on the matter of thinking before we post, you said in your earlier note: "But PLEASE try not to be constuctive." Perhaps if you had exercised a bit more thought, and less temper, you might have realized the error in your wording.

I have offered only one issue here with respect to Studio 4. I got a response from Svenn-Ivar which resolved the problem for me, and I reported that here, for the benefit of others. Most of the posts have been useful, and offered in a positive way. There is bound to be a degree of fruatration, as people trip over seemingly obvious bugs in a product which, though BETA, we are told has been through a good deal of testing. The bug I noted was one which slipped through because *apparently* no one tried a fresh install on a clean machine prior to release. It happens, even though we should all know better.

Clearly, Atmel expect to get some benefit from feedback, else they would not have offered the BETA. Equally, I am sure they are mature enough to understand when a user is frustrated, even with a BETA.

Please try not to over-control. You have a good site, and for the most part, people here are conscientious and helpful. That coes only from feeling at ease with the open forum.

And before I close, my thanks to you for operating a very useful site.

Bill

admin's test signature
 

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Webmaster ?

The following is from the whois database.

---------------------------------------------------------------

WHOIS information for avrfreaks.net:

Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE

Organization: Atmel Norway
address: Vestre Rosten 78
Tiller, 7075 NO NORWAY

Admin contact: Roger Skjetlein
email: rskjetlein@atmel.com
phone: +4772884388
fax: +4772884399

Tech contact: Registry Department Active ISP
email: hostmaster@activeisp.com
phone: +47 2262 8920
fax: +47 2262 8921

Nameservers: dns1.eunet.no
ns.avrfreaks.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Atmel have nothing to do with it then,

1) Why is it registered to Atmel.

2) Who pays for the large bandwidth that you are claiming.

I for one would like an answer as something dosen't sound quite right to me.

Secondly if you claim to be an independant group then who are you. After all you have collected our email addresses etc

I await your reply

MACCDAVE

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1) + 2)
If YOU ran a site with obvious commerciell appeal like this one, would YOU be content to pay for it, as well?

Just a thought...

admin's test signature
 

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My company used to run and fund an independent user group, so I don't see anything out of the ordinary here. I certainly don't see that it's a big problem - Atmel certainly aren't excercising editorial control over the content of posts.

Anyway, no matter how important, this is off-topic for this phorum. Perhaps we should shift this thread to the avrfreaks.net phorum instead?

Sean.

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stakji,

What is your point ?

Sean,

This may be off topic but i don't really care as i didn't start it.

The Webmaster above has stated that

"AVRfreaks.net is not an Atmel site"

and has gone to great lengths to distance themselves from Atmel. I am only asking that if this is the case why is it registered to Atmel and who funds it.

Come on Webmaster spill the beans.

maccdave

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Hi,

One thought comes to mind regarding whether Atmel owns or funds this site. I know nothing about Internet registration but perhaps this is a trademark issue regarding "AVR". Just a thought.

Regards,
Steve

admin's test signature
 

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To Rick Collins,

1. How and should you discipline a disobedient child?

2. How do you to educate him to improve his attitude and morals?

3. Or do you you allow him all freedoms without questioning?

4. Do you allow blatant disrespect for other people feelings when his actions affect somebody.

Freedom is a given in a democracy, but only up to the point where you don't infringe on somebodies elses rights. Some people need to fully understand this.

I understand your point - under the circumstances though I fully agree with the webmaster in that for once he is enforcing a policy that freedom of speech comes with some reservations.

Astudio is only released under conditions that are specifically stated - concerning the bugginess of the software, maybe you should have been there when they decided to release Astudio 3.00 BETA or Astudio 2.2. Or maybe you should walk over to some other semiconductor dealer that offers something else, only discover that there is always something written in fine-print concerning support/availability/etc.

Inmaterial of who you use there is always an unstated agreement between 2 parties - you and the supplier/client. Atmel Norway has tried and (succeeded) under the circumstances to offer in my view one of the best forums/services for their product. But views can be flaunted.

My bit,
Regards Arno.

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To Webmaster,

It's all gone quite over there !

maccdave

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Arno,

I am not sure how to respond to your post. You refer to raising childern, but fail to indicate the connection to what we were discussing. You also discuss the priciple of freedom of speech, but again do not connect that to any of the actions we are discussing except in a general way.

My point is that the original poster made a single statement in obvious frustration that was not harmful to anyone and did not slander or defame anyone. "Thanks Atmel... Great job wasting my time!" Clearly he was expressing his dissatisfaction with Atmel and their software. He did not use foul language, name calling or even say that any products were bad. He simply indicated that chasing a bug resulted in a waste of his time.

The webmaster, on the other hand, uses 5 times the space (and our time reading it) calls the poster rude and then indicates that there will be no further discussion, He has spoken! I think this was uncalled for. The webmaster even indicates that he was venting steam partly from other events. That was not appropriate.

I have worked in this industry for over 20 years. One thing I have learned is that you need to maintain a certain level of decorum in dealing with vendors, customers and your peers. I feel that the webmaster has a much greater responsibility to maintain that level of professionalizm and failed to do so. Perhaps this will change in the future. We'll see.

admin's test signature
 

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To Maccdave:

>It's all gone quite over there !

To me, it's not a dead giveaway what this sentence actually means, or more important; what you are referring to or want us to respond to. Could you please elaborate? :-)

To Rick:
I am not the one who wrote the "rude" post in question in this thread. But I take notice that you comment on the waste of SPACE that post is, while you for the second time make more or less the same comments about how rude and unprofessional you think the post is.

Also, you comment how we at AVRfreaks fail to maintain a professional attitude. I feel I should to remind you that AVRfreaks.net is NOT an official Atmel support channel, even though it should be obvious that quite a few turn to our site for information. So please do not accuse us as a non-working part of the Atmel support system. We just do our best, and refrain to any association with other parties, especially if our best is not good enough.

No; lets not try to overcontrol the phorae. The threads seem to handle themselves, really. It's totally understandable if somebody lets off steam because some product frustrates them. It's also understandable that somebody reacts on something like that if they think it's inappropriate. So eventually, the threads come out quite balanced.
It's a 'community' type of site. Hence, it lacks the 'corporate' kind of professionality or rigidity often needed to properly run a commercial site. These phorae are not moderated in any way, so they provide a certain freedom to the posters. We'll just have to cave in to that ;-)

But I dont feel its necessary to get into repetitive arguments anyway.
Let's try to be civilized as well as forgiving, OK?

Best regards,

Eivind

*** Eivind, webmaster ***