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 Posted: Sep 26, 2011 - 06:17 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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======= Moderator note ========
Please read the next few posts to understand the reason for the existence of this thread.
The idea is that if you spot a user having posted the same (or virtually the same) post in more than one place please post a link to at least one (and preferably all) the copies.
A moderator will then be along shortly to judge whether what they have done is wrong and, if so, lock/delete/merge all but the active thread of discussion.
Cliff
PS We will try to mark each report with something like [done] when it has been considered/dealt with.
======== ends ========
Based on my suggestion:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;p=875047
Here are two crossposts by darklotto:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;t=112179
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;t=112178
@moderators
Plase mark initial posts of these topics with "green" link to this accusation of cross-posting. Not going deeper into details and not judging if the question is well or badly posed, if OP is a newbie or an expert - this cross-posting is a fact and I would like other freaks to know about it (before they waste another 10 minutes).
Thank you. |
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Posted: Sep 26, 2011 - 06:31 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Brutte,
I'm not sure what point you are making? As soon as any cross posting here is identified all but the most active threads are locked (I do this a LOT!). If some useful answers merit it I will split them out of the dead threads and then merge them into the one that survives.
I also edit the URL of the living one into the last post of all the dead ones.
How could this be any better?
BTW I think you have to acknowledge the difference between malicios/ignorant cross posting and "accidental" cross posting. In this case darklotto posted his question under a rather pointless thread title of "sensors". His second attempt was the same post but with the model numbers of the three sensors included in the title. To me it just looked like he'd immediately realised it was a pointless title but did not realise he had the power to edit it (why would he?). As it happens I came along, added an answer to the "sensors" post then found the one with the better title. So I locked that and stole it's title then edited it into the thread where I'd already replied. |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 10:45 AM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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Quote:
malicios/ignorant cross posting and "accidental" cross posting.
You do understand one could write a script which runs through the posts and tags them with green cross-post links if that fact occurred. A dumb memcmp() routine. Unfortunately life is not that memcmp() easy, the comparison is sometimes tricky (and we do not have access to the database).
Could you be so kind and tag those with a crosslink in the leading post additionally?
Cross-posting is annoying. You have this information but you hide the fact of cross-posting from community! Please do not do it because we are wasting our time for such posts. Lock one of those, edit, but give the cross-posting information to us!
Or perhaps do you think that the two pieces of information about the other cross-post should be hidden from community, as these are now?
If I were faster, I could stick that cross-posting link there by my own, saving others some time. Just like other Freaks do when they hit cross-posts. But this would become an unorganized mess, crosslink would be harder to find at the middle of the topic. Head is where it is supposed to be placed, with a reference to Cross-poster Report sticky IMHO.
I hope we are not having discussion about darklotto case, as this is an evident cross-posting (not going into the details or intentions - a fact is a fact, you must confirm as you locked one of these topics. If it was not, then why would you lock it?  ). I agree there are much worse cases of cross-posting. Still, this was a cross-post.
I do not want to cause problems in here - I just think community deserves information. Not only about a spam, but about both cross-posts also. |
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No RSTDISBL, no fun!
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 12:19 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
You do understand one could write a script which runs through the posts and tags them with green cross-post links if that fact occurred. A dumb memcmp() routine. Unfortunately life is not that memcmp() easy, the comparison is sometimes tricky (and we do not have access to the database).
But no one has access to modify the PHP that (almost) runs this system?
Quote:
Cross-posting is annoying. You have this information but you hide the fact of cross-posting from community! Please do not do it because we are wasting our time for such posts. Lock one of those, edit, but give the cross-posting information to us!
Or perhaps do you think that the two pieces of information about the other cross-post should be hidden from community, as these are now?
Now I haven't got the first clue what you are talking about. Do you think there's some magic on this system that identifies cross posts to the moderators or something? There isn't. If you like I'll share my login details with you for a day or two and you can see exactly what it's like to be a moderator - sure there are a few extra buttons visible to check IP, delete posts you don't own and merge/split threads. But there's nothing that helps to identify cross posts. The only way I find them is because I read all the posts here and when I read the same thing in two places I know it's a cross post - then I do something about it. |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 01:27 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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clawson wrote:
Do you think there's some magic on this system that identifies cross posts to the moderators or something? There isn't
There isn't, I understand that.
But there is a community which can help fight this problem:
AVRFreaks that hit spam don't get involved in the discussion in the spammed topic, don't they? Instead they give hints in Spammer Report to moderators like you.
And IMHO whenever they hit cross-post now, similarly they should not get involved in the discussion in the cross-posted topic! Instead they should give hints in Cross-poster Report to moderator like you. IMHO.
Quote:
But there's nothing that helps to identify cross posts(..).
There is! It has legs and ears and is called an AVRFreak!
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The only way I find them is because I read all the posts here
Then let us, the community to do the job of finding the cross-posts and pointing you there! Then you can just run through this sticky and judge the accusations in Cross-poster Reports the same way you do it for spam in Spammer Reports.
If you find the cross-post accusation unreasonable or inadequate - dismiss it (do nothing).
If you find the accusation valid - please include the link in that topic's head, pointing to the accusation in here so that everybody, not only you or Freaks spending 24/7 here knew something is wrong with this topic.
It would be great to have some smarter tool to manage such problems but unfortunately I do not know any. I cannot even imagine that smart memcmp() function. Even spammers are hard to fight and that seems to be much easier problem than (more subtle) cross-posting..
Anyway, that was only my proposition of "improvement", the effort of decreasing the wasted time of other Freaks. Whenever I find a cross-post, I will post the links in here. |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 01:45 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
AVRFreaks that hit spam don't get involved in the discussion in the spammed topic, don't they? Instead they give hints in Spammer Report to moderators like you.
I've just been cleaning out the old detritus from that thread and noticed it's been used several times to alert us to corss posts too. Perhaps I should rename the thread "Spammer/Cross-post reports" ?
But like Spam this relies on all users knowing the "rules". The right thing to do with spam is ignore it and post to that thread. Too often those who don't know start a (pointless) exchange with the spammer which actually makes the moderators job more cumbersome to get rid of all the noise. But there's no easy way to tell non-regulars not to do this. Same will happen in cross-posts. Some will post answers without even realising its a cross post (I've lost count of the times this has happened to me only to later stumble upon the cross posted version - often with several more helpful replies alrady added - possibly duplicating/negating any advice I gave).
So yeah we can either use the Spammer thread for this or I can make a third sticky for "Cross Post alerts" though I fear only a handful of people might use it so it's probably better to just combine with the Spam reports. |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 03:15 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18568
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
Some will post answers without even realising its a cross post (I've lost count of the times this has happened to me only to later stumble upon the cross posted version - often with several more helpful replies alrady added - possibly duplicating/negating any advice I gave).
I've been pondering to always check for double posts for new threads with ony the OP. It is more about getting into the habit, than actually being hard to do: Click the username, click 'Show all posts by johndoe', browse the subjects and first few words of the last few posts. Presto! Back, back. Compose answer, or put a short cross-post warning for others. Done! |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 03:24 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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Quote:
Perhaps I should rename the thread "Spammer/Cross-post reports" ?
Do you really want all of them in one sticky? The problems are rather different and I think separation would make moderarotors' life easier.
Instead of: spam,cross-post, spam, crosspostorspam?,spam,spam,cross-post,cross-post,spam
you get: spam, spam, spam, spam in one sticky and cross-post,cross-post,cross-post in the other.
You can combine those at any time later if you find split versions unsuitable. Not that easy to split them later.
And one more argument: Spamming requires radical actions so potentially most of the accusations place spammers in a trash bin. IMHO cross-posting does not require that - same "heavy" sticky would prevent Freaks from posting those "light" problems there.
Quote:
So yeah we can either use the Spammer thread for this or I can make a third sticky for "Cross Post alerts"
Perhaps "Spammer Reports" and "Cross-poster Reports" to make naming compatible.
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though I fear(..) with the Spam reports.
The choice is yours.
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Too often those who don't know
That is what the sandboxes are for
Quote:
Some will post answers without even realising its a cross post
They will realize that if you tag those topics in an opening post.
Of course it takes a day or two from "Cross-poster Reports" accusation to your "verdict", but it is a much better idea than to leave such posts untagged and let the Freaks waste their time there. If someone wants to help the tagged topics or disagrees with linked accusation - feel free to help cross-posters or spammers. But as the topic is tagged - be aware this is potentially a waste of your time.
Quote:
But there's no easy way to tell non-regulars not to do this.
It will take some time. Same case as with "Spammer Reports" I guess. Perhaps some introductory guideline on how to post accusations and what happens when you try to brake the rules of spamming and/or cross-posting..
Quote:
But like Spam this relies on all users knowing the "rules".
Yes, what is spam and what is not.
Everyone has own definition. But it is yours that is really important.
As for cross-posting, you already know my opinion, it is difficult to give a short definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-post
My definition of cross-posting wrote:
Posting topic with "easily accessible" copy.
For example "How to program AVR?" topic question cross-posts hundreds of topics to this basic question, like this one:
"How to program ATTiny4?".
It is not 1:1, but it includes the easily accessible copy (and potentially the answer) as ATTiny4 is an AVR. |
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Posted: Sep 27, 2011 - 03:36 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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OK, I'll give your idea a try for a while but may later just merge with Spam Reports.. In fact I'll turn this thread into the Sticky so the "raison d'etre" for the thread can easily be read..
To fellow moderators (unless Brutte has a better suggestion?) I suggest that as we've been doing we simply just lock all but one if there are any replies and in each edit the first post to add a standard text such as:
=========================================================
This is a cross post - the main discussion is here:
http://url.of/the/one/left/active
=========================================================
If the copies have no replies just delete them. If the OP has gone mad (like 5 forums) then PM a warning to them. |
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Posted: Oct 11, 2011 - 01:19 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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Posted: Dec 17, 2011 - 06:09 PM |
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Joined: Nov 02, 2009
Posts: 3239
Location: Zelenograd, Russia
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Posted: Feb 14, 2012 - 01:17 AM |
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Joined: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 852
Location: Junction City, OR USA
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Posted: Feb 14, 2012 - 12:08 PM |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Posts: 191
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Posted: Feb 14, 2012 - 12:20 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
cross post + wrong forum
Which forum would you suggest I keep the one copy in. Presumably the question is really "how do I do SPI with a UC3" so I'm guessing that might go in AVR32 Hardware forum?
(I moved the "wrong forum" one to AVR Forum). |
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Posted: Feb 14, 2012 - 12:28 PM |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Posts: 191
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Fair enough. I took the thread title at face value and thought the question was strictly about the device mentioned.
[OK I removed one] |
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Letting the smoke out since 1978
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Posted: Feb 17, 2012 - 12:23 AM |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2008
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 - 11:40 AM |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2008
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 - 06:52 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 - 06:55 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Does "trading forum" have any rules for cross-posting?
But two of those are links on completely different sites? If he posts the same thing twice on this site then one (or more) will be removed. |
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Posted: Mar 24, 2012 - 11:58 AM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2244
Location: Poland
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