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 Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 01:23 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62299
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 01:42 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21261
Location: Orlando Florida
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| Wouldnt it be a lot cheaper to open a shooting range in England? Less jet contrails from UK to US to mess up the weather. |
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Imagecraft compiler user
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 02:05 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6849
Location: Cleveland, OH
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So...
Cliff is quitting the BBC and now working for The Box 850 
JC |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 02:19 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62299
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Wouldnt it be a lot cheaper to open a shooting range in England?
If the law would allow it I'd be first in line but the UK (with the possible exception of Scotland in particular) has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... ed_Kingdom
Read in particular about Hungerford and Dunblane. The first put an end to automatic weapons and the second to pretty much every form of weapon in the UK. You can still get some low powered airguns and you can use some very low powered non-automatic handgun if they are kept at a range and you are a police checked member but it's highly restrictive.
This is one of the many things I enjoy about visiting the USA - just being able to pop into a shop and shoot an AK47 gives one a certain sense of freedom! |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 03:04 PM |
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 765
Location: Belgium
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whahaa, awesome! thanks for sharing Cliff.
i was in vegas a few years back, but i only did the casino tour on the strip. The only excitement i had was to almost get arrested for jaywalking.
On one side I'm scared to death of firearms, but on the other side I'd really like to shoot one for the kicks of it. Seems you got a nice adrenaline rush out of shooting that machine gun.
Can one actually legally own a machine gun in the US ? |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 03:33 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Minneapolis
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Quote:
second to pretty much every form of weapon in the UK
A coworker recently vacationed in the UK and claimed that even pepper spray was forbidden. (His choice of defensive "weapon" was a bright little flashlight.)
Can't vouch for his source of information, but it seems hard to believe. |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 03:36 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21261
Location: Orlando Florida
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| So all that magna carta stuff is just so much hooey? Its a constitutional monarchy.... is there any way for the people to petition the government for a redress of grievances, or are you all just cerfs and peasants? Time for a revolution? (Might be hard to have a revolution without some hardware backup). |
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Last edited by bobgardner on Dec 21, 2009 - 05:42 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 03:56 PM |
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Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 909
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clawson wrote:
... This is one of the many things I enjoy about visiting the USA - just being able to pop into a shop and shoot an AK47 gives one a certain sense of freedom!
Just sharing my experience here. Freedom requires responsibility. I have arguably fired more different types of guns than most people have. A Browning machine gun, Thompson, AK47 and MP5 sub machine guns. Dozens of different hand guns, several rifles and many shotguns. At first it seemed fun but then it became a quest to become proficient. A learning experience if you will. I even managed to get into a police firearms training class. The conclusion I came to was this. Some people might shoot guns for fun, I now see them as machines of death.
I do not object to gun ownership and have owned several in the past. The point is this, I watched the video that was linked and it looked to me like guns were being treated like toys. Shooting at pictures of Osama Bin-Laden seems almost juvenile. It just bothers me. On that critical note, in the last few seconds of the video I noticed there were some seriously nice head shots on the target.
Best reegards,
S.G. |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 05:23 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21261
Location: Orlando Florida
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| And you live on which continent? (Just for our edification) |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 05:24 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62299
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
in the last few seconds of the video I noticed there were some seriously nice head shots on the target
I've been doing this for about the last 10 years so I like to believe I am getting a bit better at it each time (hence second visit this year for some more 9mm fun - it's a much more accurate form of shooting than grape-shotting with an AK47, MP5, M16, M459 or whatever)
Quote:
in the UK and claimed that even pepper spray was forbidden. (His choice of defensive "weapon" was a bright little flashlight.)
Can't vouch for his source of information, but it seems hard to believe.
Totally true - my wife keeps a can of Ralgex ("rheumatic/arthritic muscle spray" - in case it's not sold in US) under the bed as it's apparently the next best thing to pepper spray if sprayed into the eyes. However, if she carried a small can in her handbag and was ever stopped by the police for some reason I imagine they'd charge her with carrying an offensive weapon.
You folks don't know what a Politically Correct, nanny state really is until you've spent a few years in the UK. Last thing I heard a shop had been banned from hanging some balloons outside because it was a "health risk":
http://www.balloons.info/2009/11/balloo ... -shop.html
Balloons Info wrote:
The council warned that if one somehow got loose it could float into a road and attract a child into the traffic.
It said another problem was that the balloons could attract drivers' attention and raise the risk of an accident.
When they ban breathing because the air may be "dangerous" I'm leaving.
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Cliff is quitting the BBC
In days gone by Cliff dreamed of working for the BBC - but that never happened. I fear you have me confused with the lucky Neil Barnes.
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Can one actually legally own a machine gun in the US ?
I'd be interested to know that too. It certainly seems to be the case but whether there are additional rules and certification required for owning fully automatic weapons is something I don't know. One thing they have in the Gun Store are anti tank weapons and RPGs. I'm sort of assuming that no civilian in the US could actually own (or rather use) such things?
Cliff
PS I take SomeGuy's point. The Gun Store is kind of pandering to the San Andreas generation (that includes me I'm afraid  ) |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 07:55 PM |
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 2538
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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I believe fully automatic weapons are illegal in the US, though as I recall it was a time-limited ban that needed to be regularly renewed and I'm not sure of the current status. However, that doesn't stop some people from owning them! I have on occasion seen a MAC-10 and an AK-47 in private hands. The MAC was the first machine gun I handled and I still remember being surprised how strong the recoil spring was when I pulled back the bolt.
Weapons enthusiasts regard the automatic weapons ban as unconstitutional, which I tend to agree with in principle, as the Constitution just says "the right to bear arms..." and doesn't make any stipulation about what sort of arms. Theoretically we should all be able to own field artillery. As a practical matter I'm not happy about the thought of extremist political and religious groups sitting on armories of automatic weapons, though I'm sure a trifling law or two won't deter them. I can't personally see any point in owning automatic weapons except for the purpose of resisting the government, and look how well that worked out for the people at Waco. |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 09:12 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6849
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Sorry Cliff, I don't know why I associated you with the BBC...
A couple of eMails wondered about the Box850 reference, also.
Nothing worse than a post which is both incorrect, and mis-understood...
Box 850 refers to the British Secret Intelligence Service, (What Bond would call MI6). They certainly have quite a stash of interesting weapons within the British Isles 
Thanks for posting the video.
JC |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 09:42 PM |
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Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 909
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bobgardner wrote:
And you live on which continent? (Just for our edification)
Hey Bob,
I think your question was directed at me. I live in the United States in a state with perhaps the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. |
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Posted: Dec 21, 2009 - 10:42 PM |
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Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 2502
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Quote:
Can one actually legally own a machine gun in the US ?
It has been a long time, so I may need correction. You can own full auto weapons with approval from your local law enforcement and payment of a Federal transfer tax. I do believe one of the gun control acts passed some years back prohibits the purchase of *newly manufactured* automatic weapons, but transfers of weapons already out there are allowed. I remember Hollywood film makers complaining because they would not be able to obtain contemporary arms. I'm not personally interested in owning one because they run dry too quick! |
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Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 12:09 AM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21261
Location: Orlando Florida
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| You can buy an AR15 in the local gunshop... its the semi-auto version of the M16, which has a 3 position switch... semi auto, 3 round burst, and full auto. |
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 03:04 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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peret wrote:
I can't personally see any point in owning automatic weapons except for the purpose of resisting the government, and look how well that worked out for the people at Waco.
There are many folks who argue that this is the purpose of the 2nd amendment. And as far as Waco or Ruby Ridge or Wounded Knee or any of the other places where a tiny group of either suicidal or really stupid folks decide to make a stand - there is no guarantee in the 2nd amendment that the resistance will be successful. (For a larger example that includes some of my long dead relatives see also: The American Civil War, or as it is more commonly known in these parts: The War of Northern Aggression)
Oh, and Cliff, I envy your vacations.
Smiley |
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 03:47 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Minneapolis
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Ruby Ridge...or any of the other places where a tiny group of either suicidal or really stupid folks
IMO we owe a lot to the Weavers for bravely and tragically showing that power corrupts absolutely.
And, Cliff, I recommend you keep your gaming to a minimum. The House actually has the advantage and WILL be glad to relieve you of your money. I'm curious if gaming is legal in the UK or elsewhere. In the US it is only allowed in Nevada, and in various Indian reservations, primarily. Some localities have a limited gaming industry, such as lottery, and once again the government is running the show. Sigh.
I only ever played blackjack and even knowing the proper playing style lost my ass on more than one occasion. I never wanted to count cards, too much work, but it's funny the casinos consider it CHEATING. It is to laugh. |
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 05:17 AM |
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Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 909
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| [quote="cpluscon"]
Quote:
I'm curious if gaming is legal in the UK or elsewhere. In the US it is only allowed in Nevada, and in various Indian reservations, primarily.
Just for reference, not true. There are several major privately owned casinos in New Jersey.
S.G.
Edited to add:
A P.S. And a repeat for reference for non Americans , New Jersey is a state just south of New York which is widely mocked for it's industrial smells, bad drivers and bad roads, most of the accusations which are undeserved but are fun to make anyway. |
Last edited by Someguy22 on Dec 22, 2009 - 05:49 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 05:26 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Minneapolis
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| Just for reference
I wrote:
primarily
Living in Arizona in the late 80's we had legalized "social gambling". You could go to a casino where the house simply made money selling booze. If you were dealt a blackjack you'd win the right to take over as dealer (and bank). They put the kibosh on this around the time the rez casinos put out their shingles.
Never done it, but some coworkers have been to a shooting range in China where you can fire shoulder mounted rockets and whatnot. That'd be a blast. Bring money. |
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Posted: Dec 22, 2009 - 09:09 AM |
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 207
Location: The Politically-Correct State
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I think this is still the Federal law:
"It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. "
Many States allow one to own a automatic rifle, such as AR-15, AK-47, etc, as long as they are not full automatic.
The U.S. is still a Republic of States, and as such Rights vary by each. At least for now...
I have a co-worker from London who now lives in AZ. He commutes to the Bay Area, and is always ragging me about how we can't carry openly, as they allow in AZ.
I usually shut him up by making a comment about how you can't even carry a stick in GB without risking arrest. |
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