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 Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 05:27 AM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6700
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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Carl, I'm a little late in responding, but I'm really sorry to read about your situation. I saw it early this morning and it's kind of bummed out the whole day. I totally empathize, it being a couple of years since I was fully employed.
If you do end up doing a business for yourself of some kind, and I can be of any kind of help, please don't hesitate to let me know. I can proofread, check or write code, beta test, etc. - and can even sometimes act like I know what I'm doing.
With everyone else I wish you the best of luck. |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 12:15 PM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3412
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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| Carl, this really sucks. But you'll make it and find a better job or even start a business, there's no doubt about that. I'm feeling for you. |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 01:16 PM |
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Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 77
Location: Adelaide South Australia
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Hi Carl,
Sorry to read about your situation. Life sucks at times but it sounds like you have a good family behind you.
I can't offer any advice but the great support you are receiving from other Freaks is impressive (keep it up guys).
Hope your situation improves quickly.
I value your input to the forum and always make it a point to read you technical information which I find very useful.
I'm certain someone out there can use your talents, all you have to do is show them and that's the hard part.
I like the idea about contributing to magazines, way to go to show your abilities.
(there seems to be a very good market for motor speed controllers in the RC/robot field. Most are very over priced for whats involved and with your background I'm sure you could put a HIGH current version with all the little extras for a very marketable price?)
Roy
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73's
Roy
VK5ASY
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 03:38 PM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 5942
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Carl,
I too am shocked to learn of the sudden change in your situation and join others in wishing you a speedy return to a predictable income. Did your friend that recommended you for the job also get sacked?
Hang in there. |
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Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 03:49 PM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8118
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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valusoft wrote:
I too am shocked to learn of the sudden change in your situation and join others in wishing you a speedy return to a predictable income.
Thanks!
valusoft wrote:
Did your friend that recommended you for the job also get sacked?
Three of us were hired. My friend was the first. Then there was me and one other guy.
Me and the other guy got sacked on friday. As my friend is in management, he still has some time left but, has been put on notice.
People must not be drinking as much beer this summer as, Miller claims that their sales are down by more then 25%. And, that makes it really bad during the off-season months. |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 04:46 PM |
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Joined: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 12045
Location: Tangent, OR, USA
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Carl -
I know somewhat your dilemma. Been through that twice in just over a year. First time "restructuring". Second time, startup that ran out of money. Its the pitts.
In my case, I can "retire" which will get us along money-wise. But, I am not ready to hang up the shingle and say bye-bye to what I have spent way too many years learning.
Monster.com is a good job thing, though their recent "problems" makes one wonder; they say that they have privacy issues fixed. The on-line jobs sections from your local and regional newspapers is a good source; far better than the print newspapers. Craig's List (but I've gotten some bummers there). Check the web sites for all the tech companies in your area; they almost always have job postings somewhere (often that are not advertised); they are often buried in the "about us" section or something like that.
Network. Are there other EEs in your area that you can contact to find out who is doing what? Are there any tech orgainizations? In our area, there is a High Tech Forum mostly for startups. They have monthly get-togethers and you can talk to others to find out what is happening.
Cheers and I hope you pull through OK.
Jim |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 05:34 PM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8118
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for the input.
I have been active on both Monster.com and CareerBuilder.com for the past several years. I ocassionally get calls from individuals claiming to have gotten my resume from one or the other. The only issue that I have is that, even though I have indicated on those two boards that I'm not willing to move, those individuals are usually only offering employment opportunities that would require me to up-root and move. Well, that isn't practicle for me as, I'd loose my shirt if I sold my house - especially now, with the housing market the way it is. Also, my children and I are very close. Even though all three of my sons are currently in the military, they plan on returning to the area, where they can be close to us. In addition, while I only have a modest house on 2-1/2 acres, for me, this really is God's country. I just spent 2 hours with my wife out on the front deck talking and drinking coffee. The trees are green! The air is filled with the chirping of birds! There's a light breeze! And, there are no sounds of car, trucks and no people dictating how we should conduct ourselves or manage our property. It truely is God's country.
As to the networking thing. The drawback to living in God's country is that, it is 50 miles to any major industrial complex. There is the Ford Transmission plant about 15 minutes away. But they are scheduled to shut down in Janruary, 2008. There are two Cincinnati Milacron facilities about 10 minutes away but, I have submitted several resumes there and have only gotten a "You are over qualified!" I've always read that as meaning "You are over paid!"
I have been dissipointed in one area since I have moved to the Cincinnati area. There aren't any individuals that I can find who are actively into electronics or embedded microcontrollers. There may be some in the Cincinnati proper but, out here in the country, it's mostely country folk commuting to the metropolitan areas to earn a living.
There is an active Amateur Radio community here but, there too, beyond the casual rag chewing, there isn't much going on technically. In fact, I have attempted to have technical discussions on the air and, for each time, the frequency just seemed to go silent shortly after the technical discussion began. So, there isn't much networking one can do from a 50 mile distance of any activity that might be occurring.
This is the price paid for a decision made years ago. When my wife and I left L.A. back in 1979, we vowed that we would never, ever live in the city again. And now we have to live with the consequences of that decision. |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 07:04 PM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6700
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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Quote:
And now we have to live with the consequences of that decision.
Instead of saying "have to" I'd say "get to." I also lived in LA, and the reason we're now in Bellingham (a true paradise) rather than Seattle (90 miles away) is because I made the same vow.
Peace of mind and quality of life have no equals. It sounds like you're doing well on the physical and family aspects; it's just that annoying financial thing that is the problem. Since both of your last two jobs included 50+ mile (each way) commutes, I hope your new position, when it reveals itself, is in the neighborhood. |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 07:15 PM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8118
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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zbaird wrote:
Since both of your last two jobs included 50+ mile (each way) commutes, I hope your new position, when it reveals itself, is in the neighborhood.
Me too! |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 07:31 PM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6700
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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So here's a proposal for you, Carl. Design a breakout board for a smaller AVR with a UART/USART. Put on a few LEDs and switches, a pot, and 2 or 3 servo connections. I'll write it a bootloader that uses the 232 line that is compatible with AVRStudio. It'll be Butterfly Lite with a robotics bent.
Then I'll write a little intro to assembly language (I have a good source I can draw from) that will act as an educational guide. Once it's all done and working you can get some professional boards made. Then you can market these, as kits, for kids (and others) interested in simple robotics and/or learning the basics of embedded systems - robotics clubs, eBay, hobby shops, direct sales, etc. Sell the servos separately - I would think without the servos the parts should be down around $10 or so. We'll stick in a plug for Smiley for those who want to get real and learn C.
Something to think about... |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 08:12 PM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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Good advice Chuck. Make and sell everything you can. But focus on revenue first with a job or sub-contract. Then, or at the same time, the quickest source of revenue is to sell what you have and know 1st.
IMHO:
Carl's plan to use Eagle and his milling machine to make and sell boards, cases, etc to Freaks and advertise, I hope in magazines, should derive the quickest self-employment income while preparing him to self-produce gizmos and making projects and writing articles prompting the kits as you suggested should shortly follow.
Focus, write a business plan; I /We all wish to help you succeed.
As soon as you’re ready to produce your next product ask for ideas again. I promise to provide many at that time but don’t get side tracked chasing the next great possible product until you learn how to sell what you know and have now, like milling machine services. Turn all you knowledge, finished prototype boards, and machines into ‘working girls’ first.
John |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 08:35 PM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8118
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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AllN wrote:
Turn all you knowledge, finished prototype boards, and machines into ‘working girls’ first.
If my product becomes the "Working Girls ", does that mean I'll be a pimp???  |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 09:09 PM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6700
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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| You can be Gung Ho about your projects. |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Sep 09, 2007 - 09:11 PM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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Sorry but; YES YOU ARE CORRECT, SIR!!!!
The better the pimp the richer you are.
The hard truth:
Choices are limited; you either have to expolite something, somebody, or yourself, or learn how and have the money to market even Pet Rocks!
John
Edited:
PS:
Remember you can sell anything, even if the price is FREE . . . plus $15.00 shipping and handling!!  |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 10, 2007 - 01:40 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 13839
Location: Vancouver, BC
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I'm very sorry to hear this too. I've been there a couple of times myself, but it has always worked out. Been there with the credit card thing as well, certainly not fun. But I wouldn't throw them out just yet. Refrain from using them, but keep at least one for real emergencies.
I would find something small and cheap to make, but marketable. Christmas is just around the corner, so maybe a tree ornament with a tri-color LED changing colors or blinking. And sell them with low overhead such as flea markets or ebay. |
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Regards,
Steve A.
The Board helps those that help themselves.
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Posted: Sep 10, 2007 - 11:05 PM |
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Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Virginia, USA
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Carl,
I'm am very sorry to hear of your misfortune. The effort that you have shown helping others here at AVRfreaks has been an inspiration to me. I know that you will pull through, although it might not be an easy road.
If you decide to go the consulting or on-call repair business route, I would suggest you put together a "brag" book of projects you have worked on. One project per page, with the problem you solved, the technologies used (AVR, PLC, etc), and some pretty pictures. I think we engineers tend to dismiss pictures as just marketing, but they are a great hook to get people interested. Having the brag book gives you a concrete example beyond just showing your resume. Heck, bring some personal projects with you to demonstrate your ability.
If you go the kit route, make sure to have a look at ladyada's site. There is a great page describing her process for putting together a kit that might save you a few pitfalls:
http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/process.html
Best of luck to you! |
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Posted: Sep 11, 2007 - 01:22 AM |
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Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 163
Location: Kamuela, HI
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Carl, it's with a heavy heart that I read all this. I do think you'll turn this into something good, but it doesn't make the moment any easier to live.
On using Eagle and your CNC mill: Absolutely you can do this. There's an Eagle plug-in for TurboCNC that works quite well, both for trace routing and drilling. I used to know where it lived, but I lost that link a while back. If it's still there, it's not a bad starting point for what you're talking about.
On selling your own inventions: I'll be curious to hear how this works out. Several years ago a friend and I tossed that idea around. I kept coming up with ideas that were practical (meaning "useful" and "a global distribution of 250 units, tops"), and finally he straightened me out: Practical inventions are rarely big sellers. In his words, "You have to invent something dumb like an exhaust tip with LEDs in it or something!" Two weeks later we saw the first LED exhaust tip in a magazine ad. I laughed, but he was right. I still come up with practical ideas and have nothing to market.
The teaching gig can work well, but it's tough to find places that'll pay. One possibility, if you have the stomach for it: A lot of schools are getting into robotic competitions. Private schools may be interested in hiring you as a technology teacher with a bent toward coaching a FIRST robotics team or some such. The robotics stuff probably wouldn't even make you break a sweat, but working with high school kids might. Still, you have four grown kids? My guess is you'd be fine.
On doing CNC milling work on contract, Digital Machinist ran a couple of good articles on business models for small machine shops. Worth taking a look at, though the first one is apparently from an issue that's no longer stocked (I tried.)
And absolutely positively I agree that you should hang on to your books and tools, come what may. It was partly based on my hobbies that I got my current job. Without the mill and lathe sitting in my shop, I doubt I'd have landed it. (I didn't get into AVRs until later.)
Hang in there.
Tom |
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Posted: Sep 11, 2007 - 01:40 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8118
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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35pixels wrote:
I'm am very sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Actually, I am not looking at this as a misfortune... I'm actually looking at this as a God-send!
I am concerned about my imediate future, as I probably should be. But I also believe that something for the better will come out of this, as times like these have always gotten better, in the end.
35pixels wrote:
The effort that you have shown helping others here at AVRfreaks has been an inspiration to me.
Thank you for the kind words. Look, I am fully aware that I can be, and have been, a "Pompus Ass!" But that is out of frustration with the competence displayed many times with regard to learning and, who's responsibility our individual learning falls on.
But, beyond the frustration and the frequent display of "Anal Retentive" tendencies’, I have this need to share what I know with others. It's not that I want to brag about what I know... It's more that I came by what I have learned over the years with such difficulty that, I want to share that knowledge, hoping to save others the mistakes and failures (a point of perstecive here) that I have endured. But even the failures turned into successes because, I pushed forward and learned from those preceived failures. If the forum members haven't taken notice, I'm as addicted to AVRFreaks as the guy using Crack-Cocane. It's sad, isn't it? But, it's legal and socially acceptable!
35pixels wrote:
If you decide to go the consulting or on-call repair business route, I would suggest you put together a "brag" book of projects you have worked on. One project per page, with the problem you solved, the technologies used (AVR, PLC, etc), and some pretty pictures. I think we engineers tend to dismiss pictures as just marketing, but they are a great hook to get people interested. Having the brag book gives you a concrete example beyond just showing your resume. Heck, bring some personal projects with you to demonstrate your ability.
Actually, I keep an enginnering notebook on each project that I have ever done. At the end of the project, I make a report style manual, documenting the entire project. You've seen this style if you've visited the projects section and view/used the "My_LCD Serial Backpack" project that I contributed to the AVRFreaks community.
When I go for an interview, I usually bring a couple of my project reports with me as a "Marketing/Selling" strategy. Sometimes the interviewer is impressed, somethes he/she is not. The one that really seems to trigger their interest is the physical hardware that the project notbook represents. I've had good success at this, when the opportunity presents itself.
On another note:
I have purchased a license to upgrade my evaluation copy of Mach3 for my table-top milling machines, removing the 500 lines of G-CODE limitation. This will allow me to drill and mill much larger proto-type printed circuit boards, as well as make small (5" x 9") custom control panels and project boxes. It will also provide more functionality, allowing the ability to manufacturer small parts for the hobby robotics sector.
The really big news is that, today I placed an order for CadSoft Eagle Professional. This not only makes me compatable with the larger part of the AVRFreaks community members, it opens the door to more easily produce professionally made PCBs. We all know what that means... Expect a flury of new, useful projects aimed at the Servo controls, LCD display adapters, small projects pertenent to instrumentation, the Dragon, the STK500, the AVR family of microcontrollers and, the STK600 when it finally arrives.
The funds for the Mach3 license and legal copy of CadSoft Eagle Professional software are the gift of one of my children. While only using about $1,100.00 for the two purchases, my son has offered a total of $10,000.00 to aid in moving the business aspects of this whole thing forward. That at least gives me some working capital to get things moving, at least on a small scale.
These things will not, in themselves support my imediate monetary needs! But they will eventually supplement what ever income I end up with when the next employment opportunity presents itself.
So, I have to once again thank the many, many AVRFreaks who have shown their support and concern regading my current employment situation.
Yes, this could be viewed as a bad situation or, even a disaster. But in reality, it will turn into what ever I make of it! There will be bumps in the road along the way but, I have control of the vehicle taking me along this path. And, I have the knowledge, drive, determination and skills to eventually put this vehicle exactly where I want it - financial independence! |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 11, 2007 - 03:32 AM |
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Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 91
Location: Chanute, Kansas, USA
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Hi Carl,
I would like to pass on my story of being laid off:
About a year and half ago, I was laid off for “financial reasons” after 6.5 years of employment. There were about 4 other engineers caught in the same layoff. (about 15 engineers in the company.) The area I live in has a city with a population of 10K every 20 or 30 miles. So, it’s definitely not a hotbed of embedded design. After the layoff, I went back to the company the next week for a few hours (as a consultant) and showed one of the remaining engineers how to use AVR tools, since most of the projects I did there was with an AVR. (No one else there used Atmel micro’s)
Cutting to the end: I had 4 interviews after the layoff within an hour’s drive of my apartment. Two I found on the states (Kansas) available jobs web site. One was through a salesman that knew of an open position in a neighboring town. (The engineer that I “trained” on the AVR passed on the information.) The final interview I found by driving through industrial parks in neighboring towns. (I wrote down the names of businesses and then looked them up on the internet to see if they did any embedded work) Three weeks after the layoff, the job I ended up taking was an interesting one: the majority of their embedded products use AVR’s!
Interesting note: 5 months and 7 days after I was laid off, I was offered my previous position. I turned them down, ‘cause I like where I work at now better. 
It was very stressful at the time, but I’m better off now.
Keep up a positive attitude, it helps!
Good luck,
Matt M. |
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Posted: Sep 12, 2007 - 02:41 PM |
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Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Posts: 373
Location: Westborough, MA (USA)
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Oddly, I was let go the Friday before September 11, 2001.
You are correct in that this will lead to something better. It always does (and this is coming from someone who has been laid off / fired 4 times in 10 years).
Here's what I would do: Update the resume, make contacts, interview as much as possible, and call the recruiters.
Meanwhile... have fun! Do some odd job that you wouldn't normally get time to do. I delivered pizzas and taught CPR/First Aid to make ends meet. Maybe I'd be a bar tender the next time around.
This happens to all of us. You'll make it through. We all do.
Regards,
Paul |
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