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 Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 03:27 PM |
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Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
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Hello all. I'm trying to create my first designed embedded system from scratch.
I'm looking for a good PCB layout software. Can't justify the big guns like powerPCB to my company, but I can justify sub $1K. There seems to be a ton of programs out there, including free stuff. Any suggestions?
Project will be a 3"x3" SMT board. |
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 03:31 PM |
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Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 4402
Location: Slovakia, Bratislava
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Eagle is good, simple, cheap.
OrCAD is powerful, complicated and expensive.
Formica is not very popular outside of slovakia and the czech republic.
Others, I have little experience with. |
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There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 04:36 PM |
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Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 4076
Location: Surrey, England
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| Formica used to be very popular over here, it was often supplied as an add-on to electronic work-bench type products. |
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 04:53 PM |
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Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 695
Location: Sweden
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 05:00 PM |
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Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 58
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| I've used Eagle before and it's really easy to use, and they have a free version as long as your PCB stays under a certain size. I would recommend checking out at least. |
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"I only speak one language .... 101001 ..." - Mr. Rat from The Core (r)
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 05:15 PM |
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 7429
Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea (UK)
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Easy-PC is excellent, I used it for many years until Pulsonix came along. You can get a demo version here:
http://www.numberone.com
Pulsonix is about the best package there is in it's price range, IMHO, but costs quite a lot more:
http://www.pulsonix.com
Leon |
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Leon Heller
G1HSM
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 05:45 PM |
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Joined: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 12048
Location: Tangent, OR, USA
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I've used Eagle some. Its good but I hate the backward command syntax. Example:
In most editors, you select something then tell it to cut, copy, etc. With Eagle, you tell it "cut" then select the item to operate on. It drives me further up the wall than I already am!
It is heavliy command-line oriented and the GUI seems to be somewhat incomplete. Everything works, though.
The "free" version is quite limited (size, number of layers, etc). The low-end pay version has some restrictions removed but is still limited to Euro-Card area.
There is a new version due out soon that is supposed to have a good Mac version. The current release installs on a Mac though its not easy and it runs in an X11 window.
Jim |
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 09:23 PM |
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Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 4402
Location: Slovakia, Bratislava
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Quote:
It is heavliy command-line oriented and the GUI seems to be somewhat incomplete. Everything works, though.
Uuuh, sorry, but I have to disagree. I've NEVER used the command line. |
_________________
There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.
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Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 09:49 PM |
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Joined: May 09, 2006
Posts: 43
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 12:51 AM |
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Joined: Jun 28, 2005
Posts: 52
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| Ive used CADStar, OrCAD and Eagle. Eagle is the easiest but CADStar does have more advanced features. OrCAD is a PITA! |
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 04:32 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6068
Location: Long Island New York
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I use EasyPCB. It is free and comes with a schematic capture/manual PCB layout package. The two programs do interact, and what I like is that once the pcb is done I hit one button on the screen and my pcb design is off to china for building. I get the boards in less than two days.
www.easypcb.com
Jim |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first 
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 08:14 AM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 5942
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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jcrollman wrote:
Hello all. I'm trying to create my first designed embedded system from scratch.
I'm looking for a good PCB layout software. Can't justify the big guns like powerPCB to my company, but I can justify sub $1K. There seems to be a ton of programs out there, including free stuff. Any suggestions?
Project will be a 3"x3" SMT board.
The free version of Eagle allows a single page schematic to be created and linked to a maximum double sided board of up to 4 inches by 3 inches (actually 100 mm x 80 mm). (You can do a single sided board also but same maximum dimensions apply. If you cannot fit your design into the single page schematic, you are stuck. Unless of course you skip the circuit and layout the board directly, but that is insane in my opinion.
Regards, |
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Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 08:14 AM |
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Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 127
Location: broomfield CO 80020
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 08:32 AM |
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Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 4417
Location: Hemel Hemsptead, UK
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I find I rather like the challenge of making everything fit in Eagle's 3*4 space, though I am tempted to spend the hundred quid and go to the full eurocard (the non-commercial one; I currently have the commercial license for the 3*4).
I feel the twelve hundred dollars for the full kit and kaboodle is a bit beyond my means for what is essentially a hobby.
Neil |
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Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 11:44 AM |
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Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 695
Location: Sweden
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I tried kicad and it has a very appealing GUI and looks useful, but I had a hard time finding documentation and development seems halted.
Appart from the top GUI I don't see what makes i so much better than geda.. |
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 03:36 PM |
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Joined: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 5720
Location: The Netherlands
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FreePCB is another free one. Fairly recent and active development. Lean and mean.
When I first looked at it, it looked promising, and tried one project with it to test it out. It frustrated the hell out of me after some time. I've been using Orcad for over ten years, so I'm more or less hardwired to it  and FreePCB is just too much clicking (and it mostly only uses the F-keys for shortcuts). It's not based on tools (e.g. component mode/route mode/text mode like in Orcad) and you have to adjust a selection mask all the time. It's sometimes impossible to select an object when there are components on both sides or when components overlap (like the board outline  ). And routing simply takes way too much time as you can't move a complete segment, only vertices with little handles.
I always used to bash Orcad because of its quirks and bigs, but since trying FreePCB I started to appreciate Orcad a bit more 
I didn't finish the test project in FreePCB, I redid it in Orcad |
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Posted: Jul 21, 2007 - 04:52 PM |
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Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 6
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since your board fits in the free version of EAGLE, thats what I would use.
It can be a bit backwards to learn, but once you get the hang of it, it'll save you a lot of time. |
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Posted: Jul 23, 2007 - 05:40 AM |
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Joined: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 807
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I must be one of the few Protel users here. I got an old license of Protel 99SE a while back from a small company that went out of business. I like it, a lot. Like anything else, it does have it's own quirks, but with SP6 it's very very stable.
I tried Protel (nee Altium) DXP, and what a load of *&^%#@. Then that morphed into Altium Designer, which looked a lot more promising. Took that for a test spin (version 6.2 or so) and it's much better. They've just released version 6.7 which I hear is the best yet. Unfortunately, I can't afford it  I've seen it on a fast* system with dual 24" monitors, and it really is super-whizzy. Lots of eye-candy, but oddly enough, it's actually useful eye-candy.
I agree with Leon - Pulsonix looks to be the best price-performance. I tried it, oohh maybe 2 years ago, not quite. Very nice and clean interface, very logical design. The only thing that drove me nuts was the method for panning a sheet/window. Backwards from what I expect (the way Protel works) and I couldn't seem to adjust to it - must be hardwired like jayjay.
Leon - you have pull with Pulsonix. Any chance of convincing them to make the finger-on-paper panning method a preferences-option ? That is, click-hold a mouse button, then as you move the mouse the sheet moves with it - that is, whatever is under the pointer moves with the mouse. Like putting a finger on a paper on your desk and dragging it around. "Fix" that one, and I'll probably convert, since I can't afford AD ... |
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Dean 94TT
"Life is just one damn thing after another" Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
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Posted: Jul 23, 2007 - 06:58 AM |
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 2538
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| I've been using Protel since 99SE, and I much prefer it to any of the other packages I've used - Eagle, Orcad and Accel EDA. I don't actually "own" it, my company does, but the standard license allows you to install it on your home system if you have a paid-for seat at work. Over the years we upgraded to DXP, then to Designer 5, and now to Designer 6, but I've stayed with DXP at home because the later versions don't really add much in capability relative to the enormous code bloat. DXP takes 1000MB of disk space; Designer 6 is twice that. It takes nearly a minute to load on a fast computer. The DXP autorouter really sucks, it's worse than the older 99SE, but that's really the only criticism I have of it. I can't say if the D6 version is better because I haven't autorouted any boards in a couple of years now. |
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Posted: Jul 23, 2007 - 10:42 AM |
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 7429
Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea (UK)
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Chancy99 wrote:
I must be one of the few Protel users here. I got an old license of Protel 99SE a while back from a small company that went out of business. I like it, a lot. Like anything else, it does have it's own quirks, but with SP6 it's very very stable.
I tried Protel (nee Altium) DXP, and what a load of *&^%#@. Then that morphed into Altium Designer, which looked a lot more promising. Took that for a test spin (version 6.2 or so) and it's much better. They've just released version 6.7 which I hear is the best yet. Unfortunately, I can't afford it I've seen it on a fast* system with dual 24" monitors, and it really is super-whizzy. Lots of eye-candy, but oddly enough, it's actually useful eye-candy.
I agree with Leon - Pulsonix looks to be the best price-performance. I tried it, oohh maybe 2 years ago, not quite. Very nice and clean interface, very logical design. The only thing that drove me nuts was the method for panning a sheet/window. Backwards from what I expect (the way Protel works) and I couldn't seem to adjust to it - must be hardwired like jayjay.
Leon - you have pull with Pulsonix. Any chance of convincing them to make the finger-on-paper panning method a preferences-option ? That is, click-hold a mouse button, then as you move the mouse the sheet moves with it - that is, whatever is under the pointer moves with the mouse. Like putting a finger on a paper on your desk and dragging it around. "Fix" that one, and I'll probably convert, since I can't afford AD ...
I'll forward your suggestion to Pulsonix and see what they say about it.
I actually prefer the way they do it, it seems more logical to me to move a window over a fixed document than it is to move the document. It's the standard Windows behaviour, isn't it?
Leon
Leon |
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Leon Heller
G1HSM
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