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tallman1
PostPosted: Nov 27, 2006 - 07:48 PM
Newbie


Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 8


Would it be possible to build a simple programmer based around this USB-Serial module?

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Evalua ... UM232R.htm

I need to program an ATtiny chip for a project I'm working on and was wondering if this might work for that purpose.

If so, what would I need to consider in order to connect the two?

Thanks!
 
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petmak
PostPosted: Nov 27, 2006 - 08:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 60


yes you may search for `avrusb500` programmer in google.

it's a project on tuxgraphics.

The most(est) best(erest) thing with this programmer is that solves the chicken-egg issue, it programs the atmega8 (programmer mcu) through usb so you don't need a programmer actually in the first place.

and most(erest) best(erest) does not use the linked converter but tha FT232BL or BM tranceiver making it cheeper to assembly.

and most(erest) best(erest) is self powered from usb

i built one and fried my ft232bl smd before testing it but it probably works, my linux kernel loaded the usb2serial module when connected it

also is stk500v2 compatible and supported by avrdude and all the standard programmers. the cost for me to build it was 3 (pcb) + 5 (ft232bl) + 3 (atmega8) + 2 (all the rest) = 13 euro
 
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DO1THL
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2006 - 07:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 29, 2002
Posts: 1112
Location: Muenster, Germany

Try http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:electronics:usbisp

I've built it myself, and it works great.


-- Thilo
 
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zauberer
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2006 - 11:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 556
Location: Moscow

http://www.floppyspongeonline.com/autom ... tagisp.php
 
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tallman1
PostPosted: Nov 29, 2006 - 04:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 8


Thanks so much, everyone. Nice to have multiple options to examine.
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 29, 2006 - 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 10204
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Grab a Butterfly, and whack ButtLoad on it. Works great through the USB-RS232 FDTI bridge - Nard even made a complete package on his website here which you can use to customize it to show up as a "ButtLoad AVR Programmer" when plugged in. Since the Butterfly has its own Bootloader as well, there's no chicken-and-egg problem, or much wiring (none, if programming 3V parts) to do.

Butterflies are just getting back into stock, US$20 each.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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Gwen
PostPosted: Nov 29, 2006 - 05:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2005
Posts: 1267


This USB programmer is 28$
That includes delivery.
I'm not familiar with it
it's just the cheapest one
that a google search turned up.


http://stores.ebay.com/ekitszone
 
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Bingo600
PostPosted: Nov 29, 2006 - 08:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3911
Location: Denmark

Gwen wrote:
This USB programmer is 28$
That includes delivery.
I'm not familiar with it
it's just the cheapest one
that a google search turned up.


http://stores.ebay.com/ekitszone


Loks like a Mega8/48/88 to me , and it even has a 12Mhz Xtal on
it ... (Thats what is required for making USB on a Mega)

More info here
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... mp;t=42628

/Bingo
 
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zauberer
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2006 - 01:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 556
Location: Moscow

Gwen style USB programmer - USBasp
http://www.fischl.de/usbasp/
 
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Gwen
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2006 - 07:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2005
Posts: 1267


Quote:
Gwen style USB programmer

Yup, I like the looks of that Smile

 
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brunomusw
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2006 - 08:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 1095
Location: Brazil

Hi guys..
The problem with this usb programmers are the speed. I made a programmer with FT232BM using ponyprog and it works but it is too slow. So i still keep with my serial programmer.

What about others USB programmer, how they are, fast? Like the ICprog-AVR2.0, is it fast?
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2006 - 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
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The USB programmers are only slow if you don't have any "intelligence" built in to them. If you're just using a USB-RS232 converter chip with ponyprog to bit-bang out the ISP signals, you incur a HUGE penalty as each packet (pin twiddle) has the overhead of the USB bus.

USB programmers that include a microcontroller (AVRISP-MKII, BL-USB, the ones listed above) are able to receive large packets from the host containing a lot of programming information, then send that very quickly to the target. Unlike the bit-bang dongle above, these can program in speeds up to 2MHz and beyond.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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petmak
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2006 - 11:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 60


i assume (and be able to tell in about two weeks) that the avrusb500 since is stk500v2 compatible it should be fast
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2006 - 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Yes, the USB500 is one of the "smart" programmers. I'm not sure of its maximum speed, but it should be at least 1MHz.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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brunomusw
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2006 - 03:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
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Dean iīm here to learn and to talk about the problens that we have. How you sad i didnīt put any "inteligence" in my programmer, was because i DIDNīT KNOW about this problem.

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Brunomusw
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2006 - 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

I didn't mean YOU were silly/stupid in the construction of your programmer, I meant the programmer itself is not of the "intelligent" variety. It's a mis-communication.

"Dumb" programmers are simple dongles. They act as a bridge between an interface (serial, parallel or USB-Serial in your case) and all they do is level convert the interface's signals into what the AVR can understand. There is no processing of the information, thus they are of the "dumb" variety. All the intelligence is contained in software inside the computer, which simulates the SPI protocol through the dongle's interface.

"Dumb" dongles are slower as you have noticed and less useful than their smarter cousins. The USB bus is designed for transfers of large packets to connected devices, but in your dongle the computer has to "twiddle" each of the USB-RS232 converter IC's pins manually. This requires individual packets to be sent for each pin manipulation, which with the overhead of the USB bus is VERY slow.


"Intelligent" programmers contain a microcontroller internally. They act as a smart bridge between the computer's interface and the ISP system of the connected AVR. Instead of the computer simulating SPI through its interface, it sends large blocks of commands ("Program the connected AVR with the following data: 0xFF 0xA3 0x12...") to the programmer. This "intelligent" programmer then interprets these commands and sends the right ISP data to the target.

Because each transmission consists of large blocks of data instead of many, many individual packets of one byte each, these programmers are MUCH faster and less error prone (as error correction algorithms are built into the PC->Programmer protocol).


Sorry for the confusion.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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brunomusw
PostPosted: Dec 04, 2006 - 11:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
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Ok Dean, no problem about the confusion.

Dean could you advise an USB programmer to buy, a fast one?
Did you already try ICprog-AVR2.0?

Thanks, and sorry again for the confusion.

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Brunomusw
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Dec 04, 2006 - 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 10204
Location: Melbourne, Australia

You have several realistic options for "smart" programmers:

1) Butterfly ($20) + ButtLoad (free!) + Misc Parts (~$10)
2) AVRISP-MKII ($30)
3) Dragon ($50)
4) STK500 ($90)

Buttload works as well as the AVRISP-MKII, but works out to be about the same cost and requires some assembly. As a pro it allows for code storage and remote programming, but you probably don't really need that.

The AVRISP-MKII is the official ISP programmer for AVRs. It's cheap, pretty hard to destroy and works on all targets. If you want a bare bones programmer, go for this one.

The Dragon is $50, but is VERY useful - VERY VERY VERY. Not only can it program all AVRs via ISP, but you can also program via Parallel programming too. If you use AVRs than have 32KB or less flash memory, the Dragon allows you to program/debug via dW and JTAG - allowing you to debug your code while it runs in the real hardware. If you have the cash, go for this!

The STK500 is the most expensive, but the most versatile. Unlike the Dragon it cannot debug via JTAG or dW natively, however it does have LEDs and buttons on board, as well target sockets for easy programming. Allows for parallel and ISP programming.


The downside to the Dragon at the moment is that it has limited device support - it's a new platform. I'd go for the AVRISP-MKII for now, as it will program most AVRs and is cheap and fast.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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brunomusw
PostPosted: Dec 04, 2006 - 01:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 1095
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Thanks Dean.

Is good to have some explanation for one that have experince with those programmers.

I'm looking for a programmer, now i'm looking for AVR Dragon, how you said this is VERY useful.

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Brunomusw
 
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kpsundar
PostPosted: Dec 04, 2006 - 02:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 13, 2001
Posts: 20


I would like to suggest Olimex USB Jtag
http://www.olimex.com/dev/index.html

Costs only $50
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/produc ... ucts_id=12

I use it regularly with Mega128. I am quite happy. drop-in replacement of AVR-JTAGICE.
 
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