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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 01, 2013 - 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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ok people, with out Quoteing the previous repies which i studied and listened here is what i become with:

looks like that none has ever had any experiences with the ATSAM4s. its a newly conducted product.

and that TI DSP processor was a heavy dury piece of craft while i could do the same performances with the Operation systemed chips like the friendly ARM.

now i have become to these ideas:

how about the LPC1788?

or perhaps i should work with my little DSPIC30F4013 and when ever get to some duties beyond its capabilities i just utilize the friendly arm mini6410?

but still i have no idea about these Operation systems on the chips, how exactly i can write a program and use their I/Os? does the OS bring any advantages to use the implemented micro controllers? i mean while working with my PC i dont have to deal with the intel CPU's registers. hopefully its the same about the mini6410!
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 01, 2013 - 10:45 PM
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the LPC1788 datasheet does not say any thing about DSP engines or instruction sets.
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 01, 2013 - 10:50 PM
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or may be stick to the AVRs and learn the mini6410 for the advanced applications? right now this idea sounds very desirable!
 
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gchapman
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 01:19 AM
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whiteman7777 wrote:
or perhaps i should work with my little < Neutral > and when ever get to some duties beyond its capabilities i just utilize the friendly arm mini6410?
Yes.
It's somewhat common to place the real-time functionality on a MCU and the remaining functionality on a SoC running Linux (or some other OS).
whiteman7777 wrote:
how exactly i can write a program and use their I/Os?
The following does not directly answer your question (MIPS32 SoC, OpenWrt embedded Linux) but does show one (of many) ways:
Carambola, Wiki, How to control GPIO pins
Similar for TWI and SPI.
For MCUs, it's very typical for the MCU manufacturers to have an ecosystem (IDE, RTOS, libraries, tools, etc.) that they create; so the answer depends on the MCU, DSP, FPGA, CPLD, etc.
whiteman7777 wrote:
does the OS bring any advantages to use the implemented micro controllers?
Yes but usually a RTOS instead of OS.
Device drivers, schedulers, APIs, libraries, etc.
Usually only use a RTOS if the application is "large" enough.
whiteman7777 wrote:
i mean while working with my PC i dont have to deal with the intel CPU's registers. hopefully its the same about the mini6410!
Yes.
A difficulty is having to choose which OS.
 
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gchapman
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 01:28 AM
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whiteman7777 wrote:
or may be stick to the AVRs and learn the mini6410 for the advanced applications? right now this idea sounds very desirable!
Sounds good.
The Mini6410 may not be industrial rated but that may not be a problem (can control its environment, filter it, and/or isolate it).
Some SoC boards can have near or somewhat equivalents that have a specification for industrial use.
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 07:52 AM
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could you show me an industrial rated one please?
 
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Kartman
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 08:18 AM
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Google not working in you part of the world??

Look at the Beaglebone/board and other derivatives from TI using the Sitara. I think you might find they have industrial temp ratings. The main problem is the LCDs - getting a industrial temp rating is much harder to find.
 
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clawson
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 01:24 PM
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Quote:

the LPC1788 datasheet does not say any thing about DSP engines or instruction sets.

You either aren't reading or aren't understanding this thread. The 1788 is a Cortex M3. It's already been stated here that the first Cortex in the range of devices with anything approaching DSP-like capabilities is the Cortex M4. So the M3 does not have that.

The NXP LPC's with M4 cores have a 4 digit model number starting with a 4xxx. (M3 are 13xx, 17xx, 18xx while M0 is 8xx, 11xx, 12xx).

I think there's just one demo board for LPC 4xxx and it is this:

http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13027.html

In the UK that costs about £50.

I think if I wanted a "cheap and easy" start in Cortex M4 I would go for the STM32F4 Discovery simply because its use is so widespread you'll find tons of existing projects and advice from people already using it.

For the same reason (projects/people) I think if I was looking for a low-end Linux platform it would now be Raspberry Pi or Beaglebone. (the Cortex A processors in those are considerably more powerful than any Cortex M processor).

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theusch
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 02:13 PM
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Quote:

looks like that none has ever had any experiences with the ATSAM4s. its a newly conducted product.


Quote:

I think if I wanted a "cheap and easy" start in Cortex M4 ...


Since this >>is<< an Atmel site Wink , one could attend the Tech On Tour seminar:
http://www.atmel.com/Microsite/tech_tour/agenda.aspx
Quote:
Low-Power System Design with Atmel Microcontrollers, Wireless and Touch Solutions
Registration Fee: USD $49, which includes:

Hands-on training with an Atmel Technology Expert
Step-by-step training materials
Atmel SAM4L-EK Evaluation Kit
 
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clawson
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 03:32 PM
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As I've said above I have the SAM4S Xplained. It is as good an introduction to M4 as anything. My only reservation about it is that (perhaps because it's relatively new) there are not widespread projects/articles/talk about it so if you do hit the buffers you are faced with www.at91.com or the AS5/6 forum here. I got the first stumbling block I hit with it (Segger driver download) answered in the AS5/6 forum here in fact but if there's even 10 threads here from users of SAM4S Xplained I'd be surprised.

The situation is different with STM32F4 Discovery as it's been around for a year or two. Sop there are projects, articles and thousands of threads to search when you hit some kind of issue.

What is not so great about it is that there isn't really a "complete solution" like there is AS6 for SAM4S which pulls together editor, compiler, debugger and all the tools you need. Trying to work out what tools to use with STM32F4 is moer of a crap shoot. Sure they have a "getting started guide" and (this is actually a disadvantage) it introduces you to four different IDE/compilers you might use (many astronomically expensive beyond the trial version). Part of the problem is that you don't know which of the four everyone else is going to be using and, therefore, which one is best to run with (assuming you can remain under the "hobby limit"). There are no such concerns when it comes to SAM4S and AS6. The solution is obvious (and unlimited).

I paid something like £18 ($25) for my SAM4S Xplained - it was on an introductory, half price offer at the time.

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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 08:09 PM
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you are right about your hints spotted, but there are other matters for me to concern, i just asked one of the guys i know at the local market about the ATSAM4S yesterday. he answered " its depended on the bussiness men to bring this chip at the country or not, they will do it if they recieve some requests to recieve at least a few thousands of it"!!!!

there are a lot of interesting hardwares on the net yes, but the availablity is some thing else.

right now the hardwares available here are:

DsPICs
AVRs and some Automotive AVRs
LPC1788
some TI cheaps and development kits
some samsung development kits like the MINI6410
ATSAM7s256 and like this.
i could not find anything like "industrial development kits" available here either.
considering also the matter of the time and sources for learning i am thinking about the combination of the AVR (or DsPIC) with the MINI6410.
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 08:13 PM
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alsooooo none of those chips come with the CV's wonderful "code wizard" either! only the CCS compiler has some thing like this but the CV's is better.

even the keil4.7 has just come with the autocomplete feature! and i bet that this will be more confusing for some one who is new on working with the ARMs, it will present some tens of possible cases for the register's name you are going to type.
 
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gchapman
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 08:57 PM
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whiteman7777 wrote:
i could not find anything like "industrial development kits" available here either.
That may only be a small loss.
Likely control the temperature and humidity, clean power, and I/O protection and filtering via daughterboard(s).
whiteman7777 wrote:
even the keil4.7 ...
fyi, ARM has announced a zero-price version of their embedded Linux IDE (DS-5):
ARM releases free community edition of DS-5 by Bernard Cole (embedded.com; April 24, 2013).
ARM DS-5 processor support lists Cortex-M.
ARM DS-5 development platforms, some of note = ODROID, Allwinner MK802 II Mini PC, Arndale Board (dual Cortex-A15).
 
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gchapman
PostPosted: May 02, 2013 - 10:10 PM
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Kartman wrote:
The main problem is the LCDs - getting a industrial temp rating is much harder to find.
Yea.
Worked on one system where its LCD display had a heater.
OLED can cover some or all of the industrial temperature range, but I don't know of any off-the-shelf QVGA or larger OLED displays.
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 07:12 AM
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ooo it seems that i will need to do SHELL PROGRAMING in order to put the mini6410 at good use, its some kind of program put on the command line of the OS and as soon as the systems turns on it will be executed! but its all i know.
 
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Kartman
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 07:30 AM
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shell programming is scripts for the operating system. That's the least of your problem. It's a bit like autoexec.bat for Linux. Whilst you do a lot of stuff in the shell script, you'd most likely use a conventional programming language.
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 11:23 AM
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you mean to write a small shell script like "go and execute job.c"?? idk man, i have little knoweledge of operation systems.

at the mini6410 user guide page 230 (for example) there is a C program written to be run by the OS on the board. i think one such a program authorized to run by a few shel commands will do the job? but idk if the peripheral hardwares are accessible at this C environment.

page 245, another example but it says that to manipulate IOs you will need to manipulate the coresponding registers through adding some Macros and using the functions.
it seems to be some special C++ programming installed on the mini6410. perhaps the openCV functions could also be added inorder to utilize its Machin vision features. that would make the job a lot easier.
need to have the min6410 at hand+studying the whole user guide+learning some C++. working at full time it may take one or two months but i know that i wont be putting my whole resources on this Sad
some of those examples also mess with some thing called the Kernel, i dont like that!
 
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whiteman7777
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 11:26 AM
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unfortunately the user guide presents no examples contain reading the image matrix from the camera and doing some processes on it, the paper mostly looks into the kit as some thing like a tablet yet to a hardware for professional engineering use.
 
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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 12:00 PM
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Quote:
some of those examples also mess with some thing called the Kernel, i dont like that!

On a GNU/Linux system, just as on e.g. a Windows system, you (as in a "user applcation") is not allowed to meddle directly with the hardware. Instead you call functions of a driver that runs in kernel space (i.e. that is a part of the operating system process(es)) that do the actual tinkering with the hardware.

Drivers can either be statically built into the OS kernel, or they can be "plugged in". They might already be existing in your setup, but it just might be that there are things that you need to (re-)write yorself.

In any case, if you are not prepared to learn about how to handle or write "plug in drivers" or how to rebuild the kernel yourself, then why did you select to run GNU/Linux?

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Kartman
PostPosted: May 20, 2013 - 12:22 PM
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If you're doing machine vision stuff, I'd be getting it working using a PC running Linux then look at running it on an embedded board.
 
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