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 Posted: Jul 16, 2012 - 01:37 PM |
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Joined: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 148
Location: Ruse , Bulgaria
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Hi,
I have a Diesel car with Turbo...
I recently searched for a way to lower the fuel consumption (let's say without changing driving habits).
I found a lot of companies offering a new SW for the ECU or others offering chiptuning-boxes, etc.
One of them is using ATmega88 as you can see:
Some chip-tuning solutions come from Germany, so I assume these are not scam... or "made in China".
So, my questions:
1st - is the chip-tuning ok for the ENGINE?
2nd - is it really going to provide a fuel economy?
I must repeat: I am only interested in fuel economy, even if the main purpose of these "modifications" are done for better performance (horse power, torque).
Good to see if some people here have already done that and with what results?... |
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Posted: Jul 16, 2012 - 03:24 PM |
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Joined: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 5720
Location: The Netherlands
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Any tuning will decrease the engine longevity; after all you're extracting more power from it and you operate it more often in it's safety margin.
Tuning turbodiesels works very well because they have a turbo, which nowadays is electronically controlled and diesel don't require a fuel/air mixture to be precisely right like a petrol ICE.
Most boxes interfere with the signals the ECU receives from the sensors; basically fooling it with the end result more air is forced into the engine and more fuel. The results can be quite dramatic I've heard.
It won't increase efficiency because that's a more a function of the mechanical design of the engine.
Actually the best way to improve fuel economy IS changing your driving habits. |
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Posted: Jul 16, 2012 - 03:41 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21261
Location: Orlando Florida
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| Two companies that make these gizmos are PDQ Performance and Superchips... both in Sanford Florida just north of Orlando. I think the same guy started both of them. |
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Imagecraft compiler user
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Posted: Jul 16, 2012 - 08:50 PM |
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Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Posts: 834
Location: TN
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The fuel timing and pulse width are both important. To optimize an engine it takes quite a bit of equipment. Things like a dyno, and instrumentation system including cylinder pressure viewing.
I build electronic controls to flow bench diesel injectors, and retrofit solenoid systems to piezo injectors. I do this using AVRs for a diesel performance company. I build engine management systems for spark ignition engines as a hobby. I enjoy that, however I will never tune a diesel myself. Just too risky for the $$$ invested. |
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It all starts with a mental vision.
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Posted: Jul 16, 2012 - 09:32 PM |
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Joined: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 807
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There are a bunch of piggyback ECUs on the market - I run an Apex'i one myself in my 94 Supra TT. As jayjay said, it works by playing with the air measurement going into the stock ECU. Letting the engine breath properly and then tuning lets me put down about 440HP at the wheels on race gas, up from 300ish stock. Combined with a boost controller (higher boost available, and CONTROLS boost rise/attack) gets you pretty granular control. They will use throttle position, rpm etc. to generate the dynamic signal modification. Fairly impressive for a piggyback.
Beyond that requires more upgrades ... Fuel system (more fuel, higher pressure), bigger injectors so you don't run them at 100%, dedicated standalone ECU to replace the stocker.
<sigh> so many toys to acquire. |
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Dean 94TT
"Life is just one damn thing after another" Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
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Posted: Jul 17, 2012 - 08:22 AM |
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Joined: Dec 30, 2004
Posts: 8774
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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On many models you just reflash the calibrations to the chip. With turbo engines you can get substantial increases in power by allowing more turbo boost which is what these modifications do. More boost, more torque and since power = rpm x torque, you get more power. It is usually in the manufacturers interest to create the most economical car and they do extensive testing across a wide range of extremes to ensure their car performs reliably and within the environmental regulations. So I don't think you'll be getting dramatic economy improvements let alone enough improvement over the life of the vehicle to repay the extra investment of the 'flash' tune. Your car will probably have some more 'zip'.
Sometimes there's a downside. For those that had Saab 9000s and modified the electronics for more boost got more than they bargained for - the gearbox was none too strong and they used to self destruct. |
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Posted: Jul 17, 2012 - 10:07 AM |
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Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 323
Location: Jyvaskyla/Finland
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My car (MB 200 CDI turbo diesel) is chip tuned, new program to original ecu, torque and power increased ~50%. I think gearbox can handle toque only short times, but anyway my car has adjustable power output (throttle pedal).
Consumption is about 0.1 litres less than original (long time average is now 4,8 l/100 km) Efficiency can be increaed and so economics is better by chip tuning, but probably NO(x) emissions are increased also out of specifications. |
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