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CC58
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 12:41 PM
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Seems every job around now use ARM for everything. Are 8 bit micros becoming extinct?

Crying or Very sad
 
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jgmdesign
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 12:51 PM
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HELL NO!!! Sad

The 8051 is a great example. The bugger is still used in new designs and there are so many variants with added features.

Plus look at some of the designs out there. Do you really need an ARM when a simple 8bit avr can run a programmable thermostat?

If 8bit micros are becomming extinct, the Mfr.s would be dropping some warnings like EOL, oe Not recommended for new designs....

I personally hope the 8bit micro never dies because I cannot count past ten Wink

Jim

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As I am getting older I find things are fading. Like my eyesight and my patience, with the latter going faster than the former!
 
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haker_fox
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:18 PM
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CC58 wrote:
Seems every job around now use ARM for everything. Are 8 bit micros becoming extinct?

Crying or Very sad

May be... in a couple of tens years... Not yet. I believe so.
 
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jayjay1974
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:34 PM
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And some 8 bit MCU cores are part of bigger ICs, like USB memory card readers, USB flash drives etc.
 
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haker_fox
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:34 PM
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jgmdesign wrote:

I personally hope the 8bit micro never dies because I cannot count past ten Wink

Jim

I also think so. I prefer using 8-bit uC where they perform their work completely well and theirs features are enough.
Of course I've been learning ARM (LPC2468) to know much more. But I don't want to use TQFP (more than 100 pins) or BGA package for a simple device like a climate control or something else.

But for main processing unit ARM is vacant. Why? Because of its ability to work with SD-cards (not only in SPI-mode), because ARMs have a lot of interfaces (Ethernet, CAN, USB and so on), because they can run desktop OS (Windows, Linux and so on...) I know much of them we can make using AVR. But I say about full-function ones...
 
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clawson
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:38 PM
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Not this same old thread for the five billionth time. Did you even bother to search to see if this had been asked before?

I'm tempted to lock this as yet another cross-post, but I suppose the situation varies every few months as more and more cheap Coretex M0 and M3 become available.

BTW I don't know why Leon saw the need to try and advertise MCHP devices for the bazillionth time either. If the argument is that 8bit manufacturers continue to make new 8bit devices that's as true for AVR as anything else. There's just been a whole raft of new USB enabled Xmegas released for example.

Moderator.

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haker_fox
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:38 PM
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jayjay1974 wrote:
And some 8 bit MCU cores are part of bigger ICs, like USB memory card readers, USB flash drives etc.

Yeah. Let's remember old RS-232 (USART). It is still used. Where? In USB CDMA modems, for example. Connect such modem to Windows or Linux-based PC and you'll see at least one or even two serial ports. One port can take AT-commands, another one can take binary data.
Let's look at Bluetooth dongles. The contains Bluetooth module inside equipped with serial port that exchanges with PC through USB/Serial bridge...
As far as I know serial port lives since 1960s...
 
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clawson
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 01:40 PM
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Quote:

Connect such modem to Windows or Linux-based PC and you'll see at least one or even two serial ports.

You do know they are not real don't you? The whole reason they are called V-COMs is because V=Virtual - they don't physically exists - only logically. The hardware is USB and it's all but taken over from RS232.

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danni
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 02:11 PM
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Yes, most beginners want using the ARM.
Because they are thinking, that bad program flow and bad programming style can
be compensated by bigger data width, faster clock and bigger memory.
But this was a mistake. Exclamation


Peter
 
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wek
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 02:20 PM
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CC58 wrote:
Seems every job around now use ARM for everything.
The key word here is "seems".

They simply scream louder, sorry, have better publicity.

JW
 
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Magister
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 02:20 PM
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You are wise Peter, some people will wrote a bad application on a 700MHz 32bits ARM with Embedded Linux that drive an LCD display, and some others will write the same application on a 16MHz 8bits CPU...
 
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haker_fox
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 02:35 PM
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clawson wrote:
only logically. The hardware is USB and it's all but taken over from RS232.

Of course I know Smile But RS232 logic is still inside. Why? Isn't there any progressive protocol? I thing it's been done for compatibility with old software, for example.
 
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haker_fox
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 02:45 PM
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Magister wrote:
You are wise Peter, some people will wrote a bad application on a 700MHz 32bits ARM with Embedded Linux that drive an LCD display, and some others will write the same application on a 16MHz 8bits CPU...

Yes, it's right! But there are a lot of task where ARM is really needed. Everyone choose his way to build a system. He can take ARM, he can take AVR, PIC, STM8 and so on...
But it should be wise choice.
I saw some tries to implement video processing on AVR(Cool, PIC(Cool. I think it must be study task not real product...
It should be taken into account that people use familiar instruments. And it is sometimes obvious if someone (who knows AVR very well) tries to make video compressing on AVR Smile
 
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kk6gm
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 03:52 PM
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Let's just say it's amazing that for less than the price of a mega48 one can get an ARM with 2x the flash, 4x the RAM, more than double the raw speed, better timer capabilites, more IO, 1% internal clock, etc.

But mega48 has 5V operation, much better output drive, EEPROM, among other advantages. Since I need some of those in my latest project, I'm using the AVR part. But now for every design I look first at ARM, and only if it doesn't cut the mustard do I look at 8 bit.
 
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Magister
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 04:06 PM
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And you can have this for $25...
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/106
 
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clawson
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 04:21 PM
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Quote:

And you can have this for $25...

No you can't. See:

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... highlight=

Then:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi- ... 500wt_1334

So the current price for that board (of which there only actually appears to be one so far) is £1,900 !

(you will see my cynical suggestion that this may be deliberate to sell a handful of boards at a stupidly high price to the first idiots that turn up - I still believe that - see also my comment about €35 buying this: http://www.watterott.com/de/FriendlyARM-Micro2440-64MB - I confirm that really exists as I've used one and it is phenomenal value for money)

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Magister
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 04:30 PM
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Cliff, the beta board was bought and gave to a museum (and they sold 10 beta boards, not one).
Also they started manufacturing the Pi in China, so wait a couple of days/weeks before seeing it.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/

If it's really $25, even $35, I will test it for sure Smile

A quick google search gave me a couple of link that should be trusted, I still highly doubt it's vaporware.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/201 ... turing.ars
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/01/13/r ... based_pcs/
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/rasp ... roduction/
 
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clawson
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 04:47 PM
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Oh I'll grant you they have a great marketing department. Either T3 or Stuff even mentioned the thing. But having worked for a company that used to have one of the most aggressive marketing departments you've ever met I know it doesn't actually take much to circulate a sexy looking press release and get it listed as news in various magazines, websites and so on. The proof of the pi will be in the eating I guess!

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MarioRivas
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 06:36 PM
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leon_heller wrote:
Microchip is the market leader in 8-bit devices. They recently announced several new 8-bit chips with some interesting new features, as well as 16-bit and 32-bit devices, so they must believe that there is a market for them.


I don't like Microchip's spaghetti approach: build it, throw it at the wall and hope for something to stick.

Instead of reducing the errata on their dspic stuff they're releasing more and more designs.


Last edited by MarioRivas on Jan 13, 2012 - 07:24 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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leon_heller
PostPosted: Jan 13, 2012 - 06:50 PM
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There are far more, and much more serious, errata for the Xmega devices.

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