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 Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 04:18 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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One could say all uCs are the same, flat and black.
Some of them are additionally dirty cheap (w.r.t. competitors):
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/product ... ND/2765682
ST8S003F3, 8kB FLASH, 1kB of SRAM, 16MHz, 10bit ADC, UART, 3 timers..
0,33$ (10k) in stock at Digikey.
What is wrong with this chip? Any experiences? |
Last edited by Brutte on Nov 17, 2011 - 07:17 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 05:23 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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| I've done ST8 about 10+ years ago - don't remember there being any particular problems. It is amazing that if you sort at Digikey on 8KB flash, 1K+ RAM then that thing sorts well out in the lead on price compared to anything else though it's interesting to see LPC1111 on the first page of results too. |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 06:14 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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clawson wrote:
It is amazing that if you sort at Digikey on 8KB flash, 1K+ RAM
Actually, no need to add memory requirements - it is the cheapest microcontroller at Digikey so it wins in any category 
clawson wrote:
it's interesting to see LPC1111 on the first page of results too.
LPC1111 is 0,84$ (5k) - it is over 2,5 times more expensive than mentioned ST8, (although faster and with more SRAM).
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/product ... ND/2507860 |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 06:26 PM |
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Joined: Sep 03, 2011
Posts: 170
Location: San Francisco
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I'm surprised you found anything cheap at DigiKey, but they do deliver quickly, and they have everything. Before I knew better I paid $34 for a 100 foot roll of 26ga PVC coated 7 strand hookup wire. Nothing special. Mouser is supposed to be cheaper, and delivers fast too. I like Futurlec, but they take a month.
I'm lucky that I have a component liquidator a mile or so from my work office. They have everything, and great prices. Of course, inventory changes so it is a good idea to buy several if you find something you like. They had gotten in some really sweet, new, 12V 72 step 6-wire stepper motors for $3.00US each. I couldn't help myself and ended up with 10 of them. The same motor was $28.00US at DigiKey. |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 06:37 PM |
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Joined: Feb 19, 2001
Posts: 25915
Location: Wisconsin USA
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Quote:
I'm surprised you found anything cheap at DigiKey, but they do deliver quickly, and they have everything
DigiKey prices are very competitive on AVRs, and also on many other components that we purchase regularly.
Re 10k pricing: Once you get up to real (reel?) volumes, then you establish relationships with various distis and reps. You are also buying other parts in similar quantities. A posted reel price may be bettered by individual quotes, or a blanket tier discount when purchasing other parts from the same disti.
The tricky part in designing-in a new (for you) family may be balancing tool cost, dev time since unfamiliar, perhaps all the subsystems aren't exactly what you expect, and how many years can you expect the same pricing. Those are factors pretty much regardless of what architecture(s) are being considered. |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 06:42 PM |
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Joined: Sep 03, 2011
Posts: 170
Location: San Francisco
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Hi Lee,
I see. My experience has been buying one or two components at a time. I guess they would have to be competitive at volume quantities, or they couldnt stay in business. Selling onesies twosies to people like me just wouldnt be viable.
Thanks for the insight.
mark |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 08:13 PM |
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Joined: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 5720
Location: The Netherlands
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At real large volumes you buy at the manufacturer directly. You certainly get better pricing if you buy 40+ million caps of a single type per year.
That why where I work components have a preference indicator and are suppliers ranked from highly preferred to most absolutely forbidden. |
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Posted: Nov 17, 2011 - 10:26 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 01:23 PM |
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Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 78
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I don't use stm8 but I attend a seminar two years ago.
I confirm, stm8 is young, it was presented 3/4 years ago.
Usefull information at
http://www.emcu.it/STM8.html
created by italian stm fae Enrico Marinoni.
This micro is hardened for use it in automotive field |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 02:35 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62314
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
I confirm, stm8 is young, it was presented 3/4 years ago.
I wondered about that - in which case it must have been the ST7 not the STM8 I used previously - not sure how closely related the two are? |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 03:02 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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Hi, thanks for the link!
Quote:
This micro is hardened for use it in automotive field
Seems like:
S series (and the mentioned 0,33$ ST8S003F3 chip) is a general purpose family (kit is STM8S-DISCOVERY),
L series is a low power version (kit is STM8L-DISCOVERY )
A series is automotive (these run up to 145*C)
T is a touch family
and they all share the same tools and same SWIM so the development should be pretty easy.
I have found a local distributor which can provide:
STM8S-DISCOVERY(32k flash+2kB SRAM)=16,5$
5 * STM8S103F2P6(4kB flash, 1kB SRAM)=5*1,2$=6$
STM8S208RBT6 (128kB flash,6kB SRAM, CAN 2.0)=3,57$
for 26,25$ + 4,9$ shipping (all with tax).
I like the idea this S version STM8S-DISCOVERY kit has a prototyping area which perfectly fits TSSOP20 package of STM8S103F2P6, but on the other hand L version STM8L-DISCOVERY also comes with SWIM and a 32kB+2kB SRAM chip, but has additional LCD..
Oh, and these both come with STM32 ARM-Cortex M3 chip which controls a debugging dongle..
And the AVRDragon costs over 90$ in here - no fun.
I could buy:
44 * STM8S105K6T6C(32kB flash, 2kB SRAM) or
5 * STM8x-DISCOVERY or
71 * STM8S103F2P6(4kB flash, 1kB SRAM)
for that.. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 03:25 PM |
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Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 3089
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
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clawson wrote:
Quote:
I confirm, stm8 is young, it was presented 3/4 years ago.
I wondered about that - in which case it must have been the ST7 not the STM8 I used previously - not sure how closely related the two are?
IIRC, ST used to have a whole range of 8-bitters, from ST5 to ST7. AFAIK, all of them were of the 6k8 style. They ditched them all recently, together with the "inherited" uPSD3xxx ('51+RAM+FLASH+PLD, acquired with WSI), in favour of the "new" ST8 - which are still 6k8-style anyway.
The 30 cent pricetag is an impressive one and I hope this will trigger a price war in the 8-bitter arena.
JW |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 04:35 PM |
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16314
Location: Wormshill, England
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I had a little play with the STM8 about 3 years ago. It works just fine. In fact it can do everything that an AVR can do --- but cheaper.
It is also straightforward to program.
David. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 05:06 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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I am just running through STM8 datasheets and STM8L152C6T6 chip which comes on STM8L-DISCOVERY has:
-32kB flash, 2kB SRAM, 1kB EEPROM with CRC,
-4-channel DMA,
-ADC(12 bits,1Msps, 25 channels),
-DAC(12 bit, 1 channel),
-LCD glass driver (4*28 segments) with step-up -converter,
-3x16-bit timers(some with complementary dead time PWM, incremental encoder..),
-1x8-bit timer,
-separate RTC(BCD, second/minute/.../weekday/leap years, etc)
-two watchdogs,
-touch sensing buttons interface(16 channels),
-two comparators
-beeper (a dedicated pin for beeping only )
-PVD(programmable voltage detector)
-Unique ID
-SPI 8Mbps,USART with IRDA, I2C, BOR ,POR
-and all the rest..
All the L chips work from 1,8V to 3,6V.
The STM8S105C6T6 which comes on STM8S-DISCOVERY is not that feature-rich, works from 2,95V to 5,5V. Cheap as dirt.
I am not sure about that but it looks like the STM8 family chips are pin2pin compatible with some of STM32 family. They also share many peripherals.
But the most astonishing thing is that STM8L can run the code from FLASH or SRAM!! Actually the SRAM execution is a must when one wants to enter the power-saving-running state called Ultralow Power(works down to 1,65V). The flash and EEPROM are completely disabled then the chip executes code from SRAM and consumes below 6uA running at 38kHz.. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 07:06 PM |
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Joined: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Victoria, BC, CANADA
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| Yes, at $1.53/1 at Future it looks remarkable. Smaller and cheaper is better for production work, but for experimenting and low-volume stuff, this is a savings in development time and lower stocking costs, etc. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 08:06 PM |
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Joined: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 5720
Location: The Netherlands
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| Where I work we use the STM8; also in a customized version with a special secret peripheral. I believe it has replaced the AT90PWM in this particular business group as the new platform MCU. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 08:31 PM |
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Joined: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Victoria, BC, CANADA
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| I like the NXP line-up, but its nice to have a choice of suppliers, and features. LPC11C24 is $3/1000 at DK and includes 32k flash, 8k RAM, the usual peripherals and CAN with driver built-in. When compared to a mpu plus mcp2515, say, plus driver chip it much less expensive, less board space etc. |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2011 - 10:15 PM |
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Joined: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 2245
Location: Poland
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dpharris wrote:
but for experimenting and low-volume stuff, this is a savings in development time and lower stocking costs, etc.
Sure thing! Even when I write something targeted for ATTiny2313, the development version is always made on a JTAGed AVR like ATMega162:
Code:
#if defined (__AVR_ATtiny2313__)
#define LCD_PORT D
...
#elif defined (__AVR_ATmega162__)
#define LCD_PORT B
...
#else
#error "Use ATMega162 when developing for ATTiny2313."
#endif
Anyway, it is impossible to push all those asserts into tiny2313 (well yes, there is 4313 available, but ATMega162 works like a charm).
I think a similar trick can be made with STM8 or even STM32 because these have common peripherals. But as I do not know any STM forum and have no experience, I am hoping someone in here gives a hint and answers some questions |
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Posted: Nov 19, 2011 - 05:13 AM |
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Joined: Mar 09, 2006
Posts: 585
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Jan 17, 2012 - 04:08 AM |
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Joined: Feb 09, 2011
Posts: 322
Location: Turnhout, Belgium
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What is the power consumption at low speeds. I've currently a project running for ATXMega at 1.8MHz. According to specs it consumes 1.8mA max. I don't know if those ARM processors consume less.
Anyway, I see that ARM-MDK costs about 5000$. That is a lot of money! |
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