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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 01:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

Hello,

a)
where are "C" ( and Assembler ) sample projects for AVR studio 4 ?
I did not find any sample project directory, with the standard installation,
I did not even find an extra "sample project" archive on the website:-! Is there any ?!

( I *love* to use W2k on my main computer, so as ATMEL beginner, I would like to get familiar both with AVR Studio 4 on THIS computer, and with AVR Studio 5 on my new notebook.

b)
For comparison, with AVR Studio 5, it's so simple:
"File-New-Example Project" Smile
If I open+save such an example project, it is stored at "users / <username> / Documents / AVRStudo / Project name".

I did not found such an option with AVR Studio 4, to access sample projects. Is there any ?!

c)
Extra question:
Where does AVR Studio 5 store these files, before I extract them to the local documents directory ?

How can I extract the sample project for use with AVR Studio 4, without the explicite extraction with the help of AVR Studio 5 ? Ok it's not a great pain to transfer the projects sample manually...

May I use either just the extracted "C" source files with AVR Studio 4 ( are there changes in the GNU-C toolchain between whats shipped with Studio5 and which must be installed as an extra, with AVR studio 4 ? ), or may I even use the extracted project files ect ?

I just will start with
- In-circuit debugger JTAGICE 3
- Atmel AVR XMEGA Xplained Kit, with ATxmega128A1 8-bit CPU
after a 1-day workshop next week, see
http://www.atmel.com/microsite/tech_tour/agenda.asp

Which of the sample project supplied with AVR Studio 5 will work with this equipment.
a) which just require a 8-bit CPU with its limited RAM space
(b) which address the hardware of my eval board )?

Sincerely
Rolf

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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 03:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
Posts: 201
Location: BW, Germany

a) None that I know of
b) Same like a)?

Do you only have acces to an JTAGICE3? Afaik Studio 4 will never support this. So you should either get a Dragon or stick with Studio 5 only. Another option is to use the Xplainbridge by Dean:
http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/XPLAIN.php
This won't allow debugging but you don't have to get an additional programmer(It is compatible with Studio 4)

There should be Exampleprojects specifically for your type of Xplainboard which will obviously meet both of your requirements.
 
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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 04:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

1)
I am surprised about the non-support of JTAGICE 3

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools ... ly_id=2138
, by AVR Studio 4.

Hmmm... is it so new ? From the website, I did not get the clue that this product has "minor" qualities in the means that it is not supported by the (legacay, but former flagship ) development application AVR Studio 4 ?!

2)
I am VERY sorry that I used (a,b) numeriation 2 times Sad. Please MannImMond tell me to which question do you refer with your answer ?

3)
So if I look at the homepage of my future board
Atmel AVR XMEGA Xplained Kit,
http://store.atmel.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:10500183
and the CPU

ATxmega128A1
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/produ ... rt_id=4298

, I donĀ“t see any "project sample" offers.

So I would be pleased if you point me to "C" and Assembler sample projects which *work* with the board and its CPU, especially with AVR Studio 4.

5)
And I would be very pleased if you already know
5.1) which sample projects, provided with AVR Studio 5 work with the board
5.2) which AVR Studio 5 sample projects might access the hardware available with my board, to have a quick win for starting, to see an LED blinking ect.

.. I just see that the first project I selected, is for AVR32 UC3 devices ( as described in the "C" file properly, at the start, so "not for me on my workshop" Sad.

Ok some of the questions will be answered by the workshop Smile, so good to know the questions.

6)
So AVR Studio 5 was really a milestone, by providing sample projects ?!! How did you developers survived without, for the last 10 years, as rookies, when you were rookie ?!

Sincerely
Rolf

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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 04:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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1) Well it is actually out since May this year(I couldn't use one yet...)
2)Sorry I read your questions too quickly... About the samples for Studio 4 I don't think there are any. Neither on the website nor in the studio. Normally there samples for specific chips(For automotive chips)
However there are these "training" manuals provided here which should be fine in Studio 4 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_docs.asp?category_id=163&family_id=607&subfamily_id=1965&tool_id=17168 Afaik Studio 5 was not published yet when these were created. They cover C and Assembler if I remember right.
3)Sometimes there are Appnotesunder the documents tab.
5)I have an old beta of Studio 5 only ( I hate it Smile)
try "New Example Project" on the Startpage. A list with projects should pop up. At the end of each line you see the Device which should be ATxmega128A1 and right before that the platform(STK600, XPlain....)
6)Well there are tons of Tutorials to be found here in the tutorials section for example but I still prefer learning a language by reading a book.
 
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ka7ehk
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 06:49 PM
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I have never seen any sample projects in Studio 4 Would have been a big help if there were, but that is water under the bridge.

As for support of JTAGICE3 in Studio 4 - as far as I can see, Studio 4 is essentially dead. No new work, no bug fixes, no nothing. That is not unusual. At some point, we will have to move on, just to get support of newer chips. Its not unlike photo management software - when many cameras started offering RAW image formats, you got whole new versions, not just a minor upgrade, and the previous version died. Not much different, here.

Jim

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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 09:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

1)
Thank for the hint to look at detail at the sample projects.

With the current AVR Studio 5, go to
"File / New / Example Project",

and then select
"Show Projects = 'AVR XMEGA, 8-bit".

The result is a list of sample projects for my future board, "Xplain" with ATxmega128A1, and some
other board ( STK600, XMEGA-A3BU Xplained ).
Especially if you select a project before opening, a photo of the target board is displayed on the right side of the project selector ( I see this first time with a windows application, like this ).

So there are MANY introductory examples, even named by its major function Smile. Again: How did you developers survived without, for the last 10 years, as rookies, when you were rookie ?!

3)
I am going to "select" all projects and transfer it to a safe place ( and maybe try to compile the codes with AVR Studio 4 Smile ). Is there any reason why this compiliation with AVR Studio 4 should not work ?

4)
If I understand right, AVR Studio 5 is free and unlimited to be used with Atmel eval boards, at least. Am I right ?!

With some other manufacturers like Freescale, the free IDEs are somehow limited to a certain codesize.

But for 8-bit devices usually this limit
is identical with the typical Flash/RAM size ( i.e. it is not a real limit ).

For 32-bit devices, the limit of the free IDEs of other manufacturers is really a limit, i.e. less than the Flash/RAM space ( but somehow "fair" for small projects ).

So what is the policy of Atmel ?!

I understand that the free Atmel toolchain is GNU-based and available at SourceForge Smile
http://winavr.sourceforge.net/

( but I remember another "free" GNU compiler chain for another target of another CPU manufacturer which was limited to ? 64k ?, on a 32-bit target....

5)
Was there any special reason why you still "have" / "use" an old beta version of AVR Studio 5?

6)
Btw, there is a AVR Studio 5 project "AT45DBX Unit Tests".

So is there any free tool to do Unit Tests with such 8-bit devices ? So the testing framework must be run on the device ( or its emulation ) Sad, which is of course a problem with the limited memory space.

7)
Btw, does the free Atmel toolchain include a free CPU and board simulator ? Or is there any other free third-party product ?

Sincerely
Rolf

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Last edited by hemmerling on Sep 07, 2011 - 09:28 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 09:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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1) Well I did learn programming in school/with a book/ and the most important one: Reading other peoples sourcecode

4)There are no limits using Studio. However alot of companies prefer a different compiler than GCC to produce better optimized code One example is IAR. But if you only want to learn how to use AVR you propably won't see a difference anytime soon.
5)Well, have is the correct term here. I was euphoric when they announced the beta and after my first projekt in studio 5 I never launched it again and went back to Studio 4. The first Versions didn't support the STK500.... and that's the platform I use. Maybe I will switch at some point but it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
 
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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 09:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

Again, as I modified the text too late Smile, I would be pleased about a creative answer, as you answered so greatly:

6)
Btw, there is a AVR Studio 5 project "AT45DBX Unit Tests".

So is there any free tool to do Unit Tests ( like with JUnit for Java, NUnit for .NET, or the commercial TESSY for embedded systems targets ) with such 8-bit devices ? So the testing framework must be run on the device ( or its emulation ) Sad, which is of course a problem with the limited memory space.

7)
Btw, does the free Atmel toolchain include a free CPU and board simulator ? Or is there any other free third-party product ?

Sincerely
Rolf

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Last edited by hemmerling on Sep 07, 2011 - 09:44 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 09:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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6) No Idea

7)In Studio 4 there is a simulator for all the registers and Ports(You can set and clear nearly everything) However I never really used it since in most cases debugging is easier because you can attach the periphals which can't be simulated/are hard to simulate. You should always use Simulator 2. I don't know if there is a simulator in Studio 5 but if there is you should find something about it in the Studio 5 forum.
 
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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 10:04 PM
Wannabe


Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

Hello again,
thanks for all the answers.

1)
Where is the simulator with Studio4 ? At
"Debug - Select Platform and Device" ?

2)
To all Studio5 users:
Where is the simulator, if at all ?
And if so, how can I select between debugging the target and running /debugging with the simulator ?!

3)
Btw, Studio4 copyright is 1996-2010, so it is really really legacy ( I expect former Win95 compatibility & probably MFC as GUI framework...).

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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 10:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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1) Yes you are correct here. If you chose Simulator 2, pressing the start debug button will start the simulation. Remember to switch the debug platform again when you really want to debug using the jtag, dragon... The options like the clockspeed and the fuses for the simulator can be accesed after you compiled your project and started the debugging. Use "Debug -> AVR Simulator 2 Options" for this.
3) You might want to install the latest(beta) version which can be found at http://www.atmel.no/beta_ware/
Windows 95 is no longer supported by AVR Studio. The most recent version that supported Windows 95 was AVR Studio 4.12 SP3.
Windows 98 is no longer supported by AVR Studio. The most recent version that supported Windows 98 was AVR Studio 4.16 SP1.
 
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js
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Studio 5 was really a milestone
Did you mean MILLSTONE? Confused

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MannImMond
PostPosted: Sep 07, 2011 - 10:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2010
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js wrote:
Quote:
Studio 5 was really a milestone
Did you mean MILLSTONE? Confused

It's not that bad... the icon is actually a great improvement Laughing
 
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clawson
PostPosted: Sep 09, 2011 - 10:17 AM
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Quote:

the icon is actually a great improvement

Not just the icon but the ladybirds on the splash screen - sadly it goes rather rapidly downhill from there on... Sad

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bowmo
PostPosted: Sep 10, 2011 - 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 02, 2009
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Just to let you know, the board handed out at the hands on event, is brand new. Not even on their website yet. And it's not included in the current download version of AS5.

It's an xmega-a3bu xplained board. Got an xmega 256a3bu, LCD (128x32 pixels), light sensor, and ntc sensor on it.

I know, because I have one on my lab bench Smile (was on the training they held in Denmark).
 
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hemmerling
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2011 - 12:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 96
Location: Hannover, Germany

a)
I now understand why there were no sample projects with Studio4: Because the sample projects with Studio5 depend on ASF, and shall empower and encourage the developers to use ASF Smile. I did not check, but I assume that there are NO project which work without ASF... maybe the demo projects were used both by the ASF developers and the Studio5 developers for internal real-life application tests Smile.

b)
Thanks for the infos about the event,
wow cool that we get a board with LCD ( but as you did not mention it, without Ethernet ?! ).

On the last Freescale annual event series, they granted a ARM Cortex based USB development stick, with LCD display but without Ethernet too... FOR FREE, which even can be integrated into their commercially sold little "develoment tower" ( which then has the else missing Ethernet interface ).

On the last Altera tour, for $49 or so, Altera granted an Altera Nios II USB development stick with Ethernet, but the master demo application, a webserver which displays the temperature of the built-in temperature sensor, just displayed garbage, as the firmware of the stick ( with NIOS II all is software which is burned in hardware with other CPUs Smile ) was so rotten and never updated, that it did not catch the temperature of the sensor, but "something else", so more or less a "noise" at the level of 30 degrees celsius, while it was about 20 degrees celsius in the room. The demonstration team agreed, says it was a pity, but no updates... so far.

c)
Might you tell me about the after-event homework ( the task,not your solution ), to get the $99 coupon Smile ?!

Sincerely
Rolf

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js
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2011 - 03:16 AM
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Quote:
now understand why there were no sample projects with Studio4:
??? C:\WinAVR-20100110\doc\avr-libc\examples

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2011 - 08:23 AM
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John! WinAVR-20100110 is not the same as AVR Studio 4.
 
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js
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2011 - 10:30 AM
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But AVR Studio 4. (or 2, 3 or maybe even 5) does NOT have a C compiler therefore it cannot have any C code examples. Wink

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2011 - 11:14 AM
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OK, John. Re-reading the whole thread I see your point now.
 
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