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 Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 11:42 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Following on from Joe Pardue's suggestion here:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;t=121642
I have created this as another sticky so that any threads found to contain either insulting or seriously off-topic behaviour can be reported.
No one minds a brief trip off the trail but when someone and epsecially a new-comer who is not familiar with "standard practice" here asks an innocent question but stands no hope of ever getting a sensible answer as the thread has headed off into three pages of irrelevant rubbish it should be reported here and threads can then be split or the junk simply removed.
Experience shows it's clear why this happens - usually when a newcomer maybe hasn't totally thought through what they are asking. If this happens encourage them to post more details or direct them to the "Newbie? .. start here" thread or the "my XXXX doesn't work thread" where they will hopefully find the information they seek or understand how to better pose the question.
Just dragging it off-topic with diatribes about the state of education today (or whatever) does not help the new-comer.
(I'll put my hand up and admit that I've been as guilty of this in the past as others - but I like to think I've changed and now try to stick to the maxim "just walk away if I cannot say anything helpful" - try it!) |
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 04:52 PM |
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Joined: Nov 02, 2009
Posts: 3239
Location: Zelenograd, Russia
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May I report myself as always rude once and forever to save the future reporters' time and typing efforts?  |
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Warning: Grumpy Old Chuff. Reading this post may severely damage your mental health.
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Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 05:00 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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And while I personally like most of MBedder's posts, I know for a fact that novices can be wounded by chuff and walk away never to come back. We may think they should grow a pair, but it is not our place to judge the less bloody-minded folks who think the place is too toxic. I think we should simply stop making fun of the clueless in the spirit that we would like to have a more nurturing environment here.
As far as the warning: we have snakes here who always rattle their tails before they bite. Doesn't make their bites less deadly though.
Smiley |
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Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 01:35 AM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 5946
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Jul 13, 2012 - 10:00 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 166
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I consider this behavior, especially aimed at a newcomer, completely uncalled for -- basically an attack without any guidance and another of the many examples of MBedder's posts which should have never been made. 
When is someone in charge going to deal with this Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde personality of his?
[all ypu have to do is report here - I deleted that post and the OPs response] |
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Posted: Jul 14, 2012 - 03:20 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 166
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| Thank you for taking care of this, mysterious unnamed moderator. Having said that, isn't the action of deleting MBedder's offensive posts a bit like locking the barn door after the horses have gone?
some unknown moderator, presumably Cliff wrote:
all [you] have to do is report here
Yes, I know, but what I meant was this: When is someone going to properly and/or permanently deal with his continued misbehavior? Leon Heller was (rightly, IMHO) banned for what I consider far less egregious behavior than MBedder continues to exhibit. All I'm suggesting is that maybe it's time to take some effective action instead of continually wiping up after MBedder's messes.
I cannot imagine that the moderators enjoy dealing with this. And, as I said in Nard's thread about stepping back as a moderator, I very much appreciate the (essentially thankless) work that all the moderators are doing. But can we please deal with these obnoxious individuals in some more effective manner? Please? Pretty please? |
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Posted: Jul 24, 2012 - 01:33 AM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 166
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 - 02:40 PM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 5946
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Jul 27, 2012 - 05:49 AM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 166
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More (disguised) vulgarity from MBedder. In lieu of a well-deserved banning, maybe the upcoming website changes could allow a "time out" feature (say, a 1-month suspension from posting?). Please...
Seriously, guys, this nonsense is getting old. |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2012 - 07:18 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
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Location: Long Island New York
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THis thread you might want to watch for the off the track notice....it's getting there:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;t=123894 |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first 
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 01:47 PM |
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Joined: Aug 05, 2012
Posts: 62
Location: India
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I am new joinee to the forum; but neither new to microcontrollers or engineering nor to forum posts in the past.
Nonetheless, in my initial posts, I also saw a few rude replies. These replies did not answer the question or direct the discussion in some direction but just were kind of show-off attempts by some people as to how great they are and how little (really) I am or my knowledge is !
The point here is, while the forum is professional, old and mature enough, how to deal with this issue ? |
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Anand
http://www.knewron.co.in
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 03:48 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
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Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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anandtamboli wrote:
I am new joinee to the forum; but neither new to microcontrollers or engineering nor to forum posts in the past.
Nonetheless, in my initial posts, I also saw a few rude replies. These replies did not answer the question or direct the discussion in some direction but just were kind of show-off attempts by some people as to how great they are and how little (really) I am or my knowledge is !
The point here is, while the forum is professional, old and mature enough, how to deal with this issue ?
This complaint involves some of our best and most prolific participants. On the one hand after reading the posts I can see the complaint as valid, but on the other hand, the 'rudeness' was very mild compared to what we've seen in the past. Cliff got off to a bad start with the telepathy comment. He could have just ignored the post or instead of joking about the lack of information in the question, he could have asked for clarification. I've been trying to do better but on occasion I'm in a mood or hurried and do the same sort of thing.
The original question was very low quality, which may have been due to the native language of the query or the simple inability to phrase the question in a way that would make sense to others. I'd suggest that you learn to see when folks aren't understanding your question and then try to rephrase you question based on their comments. Even though your answers were a bit rude, they also had enough content for you to extract that these guys weren't understanding what you were saying. You will continue to be either teased or ignored as long as you ask poor quality questions so I suggest you thoroughly read:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
and
Newbie? Start Here!
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... mp;t=70673
And in future put the onus on yourself to see that when folks are being rude to you that it might just be that you aren't stating your questions reasonably. You can then ask for help in phrasing the question.
Yeah, preachy, I know...
Smiley |
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FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 05:41 PM |
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Joined: Aug 05, 2012
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Location: India
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Smiley - clarity in question is a bit subjective to each individual; yet - I take your comment as a constructive one.
However, I don't think 'more details' or 'clarification' could be ever achieved, no matter how experienced I would be due to subjectivity.
As there is no standard for asking questions, questioning quality of question is questionable  .
Anyway, lets see how my experience in forum goes... |
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Anand
http://www.knewron.co.in
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 06:55 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
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Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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| Well I apologise for the comment about telepathy but seriously what were you expecting with the non-sensical question? |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 07:03 PM |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 07:07 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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| Not sure what you mean but you must admit that the original question was so stupid it looked strongly as if you were a troll? Surely you see that? You do understand that interface between two micros involves the flow of electrons somehow? |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 07:28 PM |
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Joined: Aug 05, 2012
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Location: India
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I meant - little empathy towards my question (rather towards any newbie here). Methods and verbatims of communication amongst various forums and teams are bound to be different and hence communication gap is very much possible. It seems that you find it difficult to accept your mistake, never mind. But question is definitely not stupid in any way and the proof is many members who have participated in discussion in a constructive way.
Here, asking for clarification helps alongwith suggestions if something is not right. I am aged enough to keep my cool and still communicate, but in general not every newbie would be like that and it would discourage from asking questions or participating in this forum.
It is possible that many people here would ask lazy and perhaps questions that may not make sense; but not all of them. So starting on wrong-foot with negative hypothesis also is not useful.
Another important point - you see that only couple of rude lines have resulted into many responses in that context and so the waste of many valuable minutes. If one would have chosen not to comment that way, how many minutes one could have saved ?
Two micros can communicate without direct wiring i.e. using IrDA though but that's not the point here or in OP.
You may want to refer the post again and see how many sensible answers are there barring the waste matter. |
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Anand
http://www.knewron.co.in
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 07:35 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
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Location: Lund, Sweden
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Re the requirement to "just answer the question, and if you have no direct answer to the specific question then don't answer at all":
We often see questions here where there well could be a basic misunderstanding having led the questioner into a certain path. Should we, when we see that not try to reveal if such a misunderstanding might be there, and that the problem is solved by making the questioner think out of the box he is currently in?
(The snide side remark is that the person whose face you've chosen as your avatar was at times quite good at thinking outside of the box he was currently in.)
At times a question will lead to counter-questions from members with experience. If we should ban such counter-questions a whole lot of problems take to AVRfreaks would not be solved, potentially adding to the amount of smoke let out globally.
Yes, we always need to look at how we answer posts. Yes there has been some pretty rude answers given (much worse than just a somewhat snide, or even smart-ass remark, mind you. People have plainly had "Idiot!" shouted at them).
But it is also my opinion that a questioner should be prepared to have the basis of his question, and the question as such, scrutinized. If I would not be prepared to take that when I ask a question it is likely that I have not researched enough, and prepared my question adequately.
Now: Could you tell me how I start my car with the help of a duck? |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
(The snide side remark is that the person whose face you've chosen as your avatar was at times quite good at thinking outside of the box he was currently in.)
Well, just this question doesn't make me not-eligible for using this avatar. Many a times I have demonstrated my expertise in out-of-box fashion (I am not pompous but providing info.); yet everyone of us have had such instances once a while where communication gap occurs and people misunderstand.
I am not against counter-questioning; it is the crux of forum discussion, I get it.
When one accepts that the language have been rude, it doesn't end there; that acceptance should be demonstrated with future improvements, else it becomes just another political statement.
I will demonstrate how to turn a bad question into a good one in future; perhaps that would change the outlook of some people. Remember, everyone here was a newbie once - compassion is the key.
For answering your question; please help with more details / specifics. |
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Anand
http://www.knewron.co.in
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 09:08 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
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Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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clawson wrote:
Not sure what you mean but you must admit that the original question was so stupid it looked strongly as if you were a troll? Surely you see that? You do understand that interface between two micros involves the flow of electrons somehow?
Cliff! Having a bad weekend? I know that I often have a day where I chew on everything, but we both know the aphorism: "If you respond to a troll, you are a troll." We also know that if you don't have anything constructive to say, then keep quiet.
If this guys OP was stupid or he is a troll trying to get the exact results he is getting - he would have gotten nothing if folks had thought either, "This is a stupid question so no need to respond." or "This guy is a troll so no need to respond."
The jury is out on this guys intentions. I certainly have no desire to jolly him into asking his questions in a way I can understand. But I think we have long since learned (or rather should have learned) to just ignore these sorts of things if we don't have anything constructive to add.
Yes I am a sinner preaching on the street corner, but I don't want to go back to the days when it was okay to jump peoples cases for being either stupid or trollish. If you, the best of us, won't walk away from these kinds of posts, then what hope do the rest of us have?
</sermon>
Smiley |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 09:32 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18574
Location: Lund, Sweden
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It seems to me that most of the questions of the type we are talking here (not wanting to use any word to classify them) actually are not trollings but real questions - albeit being asked naively, or in laziness, or being of low quality due to inexperience. Not leading such questioners onto the right track seems to me to counter exactly what you are burning for, Joe.
I am not talking about the specific question by anandtamboli but in general about the clueless questions. (Oh dear, now I did use a specific word for classifying them anyway..)
I repeat my opinion. Many bad questions should be friendly challenged. We have a lot of starters here that have really close to no programming knowledge, and a perception of electronics that is even worse. Still they try to start doing things. And in that process they ask questions (apart from the Indians, that instead "have doubts" ) that really show they need extended guidance on several levels, since a good direct answer is impossible (or would be irresponsible) to give.
If I stretch it, the principle to only answer questions that can actually be given a "straight answer" would lead to elitism IMO. I know for sure that this is not what you want.
So, just like we need to reflect not on if we answer but how, the questioners must accept that they might very well be told something they do not want to hear. If all this happens with respect from all parties involved then all is good.
The obvious troll should be ignored, but the simple "if it's stupid - don't answer" principle is bad. |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 09:43 PM |
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Location: India
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Quote:
(apart from the Indians, that instead "have doubts" )
Please don't do this; does not reflect any good... |
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Anand
http://www.knewron.co.in
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 10:21 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18574
Location: Lund, Sweden
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| My apologies if this was taken as a sinister remark. But it was not - It was in no way a sinister remark, but a nod to the earlier discussions here about different dialects of the English language. |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2012 - 11:23 PM |
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Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20387
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
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Italians have "doubts" too, it makes sense in Italian and obviously in some languages in India but it doesn't in English.
One of those lost in translation things. |
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John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Posted: Oct 08, 2012 - 12:41 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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Johan, I hear you and agree. I think Cliff's remark about telepathy was not what you are talking about. Something like: "I don't understand what you are asking." will put the ball back in the OP court and if he is a troll he'll tire quickly of doing all the work and if he is weak in asking questions, he might have opportunity to improve.
As far as elitism, I would have ignored the question mainly because I don't think I'd have known the answer even if it did make sense. When someone asks a question in an are I feel comfortable with and I don't understand the query, I do ask for details.
I'm feeling a bit chagrined over this whole thing because my preaching at Cliff is really stupid on my part since he pretty much carries the load here and him getting off his feed on occasion is understandable. And frankly, I'm not liking what I'm seeing with this guy so I hate to upbraid Cliff defending him.
Maybe this should be sliced off this thread and put on a new thread titled something like "What is rude in a forum answer?" since IMHO this thread is for reporting rudeness, not determining what rudeness is. Any troll worth his bridge is going to try to make a splash on this thread, so let's not give the opportunity.
Smiley |
_________________
FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
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Posted: Oct 08, 2012 - 03:31 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6071
Location: Long Island New York
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anandtamboli,
While I agree that your requests have left at times quite a bit to be desired as far as information goes to best get you some ideas to help your situation, some of the replies to say the least said just that...The least.
One of the big boys here on the forums has a signature that basically sums up how you should regard any posts to your thread(s):
Quote:
"If you want good ideas, you have to have lots of ideas, and throw away the bad ones." Linus Pauling
It's no excuse for everything, but the quote speaks volumes. |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Oct 10, 2012 - 02:34 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18574
Location: Lund, Sweden
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To help me drive my point home, we got this excellent specimen of a first post today: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... 72#1000772
Now, how many of you think that this is a troll?
How many of you think that this is actually someone who is either naive or very lazy, or possibly both?
I would be very surprised if any of you would set the troll stamp on this.
Next, considering an answer it is quite problematic since any answer that I can think that makes sense to me can also be classified as "rude" or "does not answer the actual question" etc.
Basically my answer would be "You are either lazy or naive or both. You need to search this site and Google. Many has done this before you ,and many discussions has been held here at AVRfreaks on the subject. Search them out. Read. Then ask..".
Can answer that, and still be within limits?
[OK, I'll take the CAPTCHA this time for the link above - consider it just a temporary pause in my protest against the ridiculously bad CAPTCHA functionality. I will continue to not report spam, I continue not to link to other threads here at AVRfreaks or to other quite legitimate sites.] |
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Posted: Oct 10, 2012 - 03:09 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Just point him to the "how to ask questions" sticky. As always (and I should learn to follow my own advice!  ) only post if it might help the OP to what they are trying to achieve. If not just walk away. If the OP gets no responses for several days they may be moved to formulate a better structured post anyway. |
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Posted: Oct 10, 2012 - 05:53 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
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Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
To help me drive my point home, we got this excellent specimen of a first post today: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... 72#1000772
Quote:
That was probably a waste of time, but if the post was legit then it gives the guy a chance to learn how to use forums.
And I just noticed this in my list:[/quote]http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool[/quote]
Quote:
Dealing with rudeness
Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.
When you perceive rudeness, try to react calmly. If someone is really acting out, it is very likely a senior person on the list or newsgroup or forum will call him or her on it. If that doesn't happen and you lose your temper, it is likely that the person you lose it at was behaving within the hacker community's norms and you will be considered at fault. This will hurt your chances of getting the information or help you want.
On the other hand, you will occasionally run across rudeness and posturing that is quite gratuitous. The flip-side of the above is that it is acceptable form to slam real offenders quite hard, dissecting their misbehavior with a sharp verbal scalpel. Be very, very sure of your ground before you try this, however. The line between correcting an incivility and starting a pointless flamewar is thin enough that hackers themselves not infrequently blunder across it; if you are a newbie or an outsider, your chances of avoiding such a blunder are low. If you're after information rather than entertainment, it's better to keep your fingers off the keyboard than to risk this.
(Some people assert that many hackers have a mild form of autism or Asperger's Syndrome, and are actually missing some of the brain circuitry that lubricates “normal” human social interaction. This may or may not be true. If you are not a hacker yourself, it may help you cope with our eccentricities if you think of us as being brain-damaged. Go right ahead. We won't care; we like being whatever it is we are, and generally have a healthy skepticism about clinical labels.)
In the next section, we'll talk about a different issue; the kind of “rudeness” you'll see when you misbehave.
EXCELLENT:)
Smiley |
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Posted: Oct 10, 2012 - 06:12 PM |
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Posted: Oct 11, 2012 - 06:06 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6071
Location: Long Island New York
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This one has gone so far off course in part by my own doing
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... 68#1001168 |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Oct 11, 2012 - 06:11 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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| Can a thread in off topic go off topic then? |
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Posted: Oct 11, 2012 - 06:37 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6071
Location: Long Island New York
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| That is a good question!! I think in that case it is up to the OP, would you agree? |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Oct 11, 2012 - 06:40 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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OP always has the right to ask for any of their threads to be locked/split/deleted/merged/renamed if they want.
(actually deletion may only involve movement to a "hidden place"). |
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Posted: Oct 11, 2012 - 06:46 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
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Location: Long Island New York
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| That solves that then. Pleasse disregard my post and/or delete it |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 16, 2013 - 04:50 PM |
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Joined: Jan 30, 2005
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Location: Junction City, OR USA
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Posted: Jan 18, 2013 - 03:59 AM |
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Joined: Jan 30, 2005
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Location: Junction City, OR USA
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Quote:
[gone - I do sometimes wonder about exactly what pills Bob is on!]
Or should be on.  |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 02:15 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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I here by report myself for being rude to the idiots who still think guns are a good topic for AVRFreaks.
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... 50#1030450
Please lock the thread and ban me if you guys want to continue allowing the pro and anti gun idiots to use this forum for their idiotic idiocy. |
_________________
FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 06:40 AM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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The first post in this thread.
clawson wrote:
Following on from Joe Pardue's suggestion here:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name ... p;t=121642
I have created this as another sticky so that any threads found to contain either insulting or seriously off-topic behaviour can be reported.
And Joe in a subsequent post wrote
Quote:
since IMHO this thread is for reporting rudeness, not determining what rudeness is.
Joe is being quite hippo-critical! Don't do as I do, but do as I say! You should read some of your own threads!
My post was neither rude, hijacked, insulting or seriously off topic in the off topic forum. I never mentioned the g word, nor implied the f word. I called no-one an idiot or accused the of idiotic idiocy(). There was no reference to any particular race, ethnic group, gender or religion. It was just a little fun and does not required to be locked, at the whim of one person who is easily upset! I am sorry for Joe that he is easily offended, but that is not my problem! I gather it was not locked, because Joe was rude & used offensive language in the last post! 
Joe posted these links earlier
Dealing with rudeness
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-que ... l#keepcool
On Not Reacting Like A Loser
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.
I suggest you read them & practice what you preach Joe!
The off-topic threads present the human side of AVRfreaks.
We can talk about cats or flying pursuits. We send good wishes if someone undergoes an operation. We see threads of condolences in cases of flood, fire, earthquakes, terrorist attacks etc. etc. , but if one sends or comments on a school shooting like 15th Dec. or the 1200 shootings since then or the two school shootings in the last two weeks it is a mortal sin. Does the NRA run this Forum? Come on, get real!
To suggest that I belong to the US anti-gun lobby is quite preposterous.
I note that one of Uncle Bob's threads was locked the other day ( regarding magazines). Why? It was a clever little pun(which incidentally went over my head), but obviously Joe got his knickers in a knot. Perhaps, Joe should just be made a moderator.
Since it seems that if threads get locked because of one person being offended over a part or all of an off-topic post, that the off-topic forum be completely removed from AVR freaks in lieu of the current ad-hoc censorship!
I am actually quite offended that a valid post that I started should be locked! If it cannot be stated in the thread, why the thread is locked, I respectfully ask for a courtesy PM to me indicating why the thread was locked & what process it underwent! I prefer to see it unlocked!
I am not really interested any any further discussion on this matter! |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 09:56 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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The pictures in most avatars appear to reveal adults the behaviour, however, appears to be children in the playground.
This board is not going to support the discussion of religion or politics, including gun control, however one dresses it up.
Most human beings have a personal opinion about either religion or politics. How about we all keep those personal?
If there's a real burning desire to evangelise I'm sure I could find 50 better fora on the internet in which to do it. |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 11:15 AM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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Quote:
The pictures in most avatars appear to reveal adults the behaviour, however, appears to be children in the playground.
That does not make any sense Cliff! Are you saying the faces of the kids are the issue?
Quote:
This board is not going to support the discussion of religion or politics, including gun control, however one dresses it up.
There was no mention of gun control! It was not dressed up in any way! Why single out gun control? Or is a special sin because Joe has very paranoi about this and he happens to be an advertiser on this board?
Quote:
Most human beings have a personal opinion about either religion or politics. How about we all keep those personal?
If there's a real burning desire to evangelise I'm sure I could find 50 better fora on the internet in which to do it.
No argument from me!
I shall remove the picture that offends Joe if you unlock the thread. Alternatively, if you can remove it and then unlock the thread I would appreciate it!
Your first paragraph still does not seem to fit in the context what this is all about!
I suggest that you have a more appropriate sticky where "unsuitable topics" can be placed. Certainly Joe's whinge was not about a rude or hijacked topic. |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 11:46 AM |
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Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Greece
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LDEVRIES wrote:
That does not make any sense Cliff! Are you saying the faces of the kids are the issue?
That doesn't relate to images in the discussed thread, it refers to the avatar images shown under the username (left side of the post).
It means that there are some adult members behaving like kids.
Alex |
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"For every effect there is a root cause. Find and address the root cause rather than try to fix the effect, as there is no end to the latter."
Author Unknown
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 11:53 AM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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Thanks Alex,
In the heat of the moment, it went over my head. |
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Lee -.-
(If you haven't already done so, edit your PostNuke profile and let let us know where you are, what you do & what your interests are.)
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 12:59 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
There was no mention of gun control! It was not dressed up in any way! Why single out gun control?
Try to stop being an idiot. You know the point I was making. Clearly your third picture in the original thread was being deliberately contentious on the subject of gun control and whether it's right to teach gun use to a 3 year old. Your avatar reveals someone I'd guess is 60-65. Your behaviour reveals an intellect of a 5 year old.
Why do you insist on flogging this dead horse. You have your opinion. Others have theirs. No one is going to change the others opinion. What is the point? Why can't this be a message board purely for discussing interesting technology and leave the politics for the right and left wing nutters elsewhere.
Quote:
It was just a little fun and does not required to be locked, at the whim of one person who is easily upset!
It was John who locked the thread. I support his decision 100% and when the other moderators wake up and see the thread where this is being discussed in the Moderator's forum I cannot think that there'll be any of them that do no not agree. The ultimate choice of what's appropriate is down to Atmel and that's usually in the guise of Eric (EW). We could PM and ask him for a ruling if you like? |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 06:07 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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LDEVRIES wrote:
I am actually quite offended that a valid post that I started should be locked! If it cannot be stated in the thread, why the thread is locked, I respectfully ask for a courtesy PM to me indicating why the thread was locked & what process it underwent! I prefer to see it unlocked!
I am not really interested any any further discussion on this matter!
And yet I think you still don't get it. Every time guns are mentioned in a thread, that thread breaks down into an idiotic pro and anti gun flame out. Every freaking time. And you are often one of the folks pouring on the most gasoline (petrol?). I get insulted by the non Americans who don't understand our situation and by the Americans who make us look like idiots by trying to defend us from the likes of you. Since you have been in virtually every one of these arguments, I'd think you'd know that they always break down and lots of folks get their knickers in a wad as you put it. The same old same old same old gets recycled and nothing happens save a lot of folks getting pissed off.
AVRFreaks has become much more civil over the past year partly due to banning those who refuse to settle down and partly due to the common sense of those who are seeing that this is not a place for baiting people with different beliefs. When you post a picture of a man showing his daughter how to shoot you are intentionally holding something up to ridicule without the least regard for the simple fact that some of the members of AVRFreaks learned to shoot as a child and consider it a perfectly normal activity.
AVRFreaks should be entirely about Atmel microcontrollers. If they allow some good-natured off-topic communications - fine - that only strengthens the place. But when folks who should know better persist in bringing up topics that always cause problems - like guns - then the moderators not only have the right, but the obligation to shut it down before it spins out of control.
I hope your recommendation that AVRFreaks shut down off-topic discussion isn't followed. It seems to me that simply locking certain topics such as guns and eventually banning folks who won't stop talking about them is all we really need to fix this particular problem.
Smiley |
_________________
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 08:01 PM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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Quote:
Try to stop being an idiot. You know the point I was making. Clearly your third picture in the original thread was being deliberately contentious on the subject of gun control and whether it's right to teach gun use to a 3 year old.
Yes, clearly the overall thread was about bad role models! It would be the same if that picture had been taken in Oz, UK, US or Afghanistan. Teach kids violence and you will get violent society.
Quote:
Your behavior reveals an intellect of a 5 year old
.
That is a throw away line I would not have expected from you Cliff!
Quote:
We could PM and ask him for a ruling if you like?
I think that would be appropriate!
Quote:
It seems to me that simply locking certain topics such as guns and eventually banning folks who won't stop talking about them is all we really need to fix this particular problem.
Yes, of course. That sounds like a really simple, positive, foolproof, bullet proof & watertight solution.
OK, give us a definitive list of the other sensitive "certain topics" other than the standard sex, politics, religion & guns which fit into your "simple "formula.
If you want a simple solution and want AVTFreaks it to be purely a technical Forum, which I don't mind, just get rid of off topic forums!
Alternatively, another really simple solution if you are easily offended, is not to go read the off-topic part of the Forum.
Edit.
Quote:
Why do you insist on flogging this dead horse. You have your opinion. Others have theirs. No one is going to change the others opinion. What is the point?
I had a think about that!
Gun control is hardly a dead horse! If anyone thinks that there is no problem, they have their hand in the sand.
In this Forum, I would expect that we have an intelligent group of people, who can string words together, who can exchange ideas on all manner of things and make a difference to humanity. I am obviously mistaken! |
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Last edited by LDEVRIES on Jan 23, 2013 - 08:23 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 08:22 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18574
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
Why single out gun control?
IMO: Because it is one of the very few subjects that might totally destroy the AVRfreaks community. |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 08:29 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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There is no need to do away with the off topics forum if a very few folks would simply learn that they are creating problems. You may think teaching children to use guns is a horrible thing - but why must you talk about that here? This is a microcontroller forum and experience has shown that every time you start arguing guns it starts a war. Every time.
A microcontroller forum is not the place for that and I cannot believe that you don't see that. We don't need a list of forbidden subjects since common sense should prevail. Common sense would tell you that after the 2nd or 3rd flame war that develops over a given topic that it isn't appropriate. But if you need a list then it could be pretty short. Politics (guns are political), religion, and sex. The same stuff you aren't supposed to discuss at your aunts dinner table.
Some folks only come here to cause problems. You are >NOT< one of those folks. You are frequently very helpful and your career makes you an ideal contributor here. This makes it even more puzzling to me that you don't seem to understand that explosive issues should be avoided. Maybe if you'd just continue with your excellent technical contributions and leave off the gun stuff then this whole issue would go away.
Smiley |
_________________
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 08:34 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
We don't need a list of forbidden subjects since common sense should prevail.
+1
Quote:
Maybe if you'd just continue with your excellent technical contributions and leave off the gun stuff then this whole issue would go away.
+1 |
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Posted: Jan 23, 2013 - 09:35 PM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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As I asked before, we can delete the picture that caused Joe to be offended and re-open the thread!
The problem with common sense, it is not very common!
I see no problem with bringing to everyones notice every time the use of a gun saves lives. I also see no problem with bringing to everyones notice every time someone dies because of senseless gum use.
It is called balanced presentation of information from which can flow meaningful democratic discussion & debate, it should bring out the best in people.
Obviously truth hurts and is best best swept under the carpet.
If you can't talk about politics & religion at your aunts dinner table, where can you talk about it. In the bedroom along with the other naughty word. Bad argument that goes nowhere!
I take Johan's point and would add that, no other Topic like "off topic's " has the ability to bring AVRfreaks down, other than bullying behaviour. |
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 02:11 AM |
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Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20387
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
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Quote:
we can delete the picture that caused Joe to be offended
And what about the smokers, drinkers, people with medical conditions or who just enjot their food etc., will they be next to complain?
What if someone posted a photo of a beautyfull vegetable garden being ravaged by wild rabbits?  |
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John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 02:28 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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John you aren't making sense.
When have we had a flame war over smokers, drinkers, or any of the rest? Never.
How many flame wars have we had over guns? Lots.
But I must agree that common sense isn't so common. However people who think their opinions constitute the truth seem to be very common. |
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 02:45 AM |
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Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20387
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
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I was only mentioning that all of the pictures posted could be considered offensive by someone who may be one of the people depicted.
I can't stand cigarette smoke, apart from the fact that they ruined my fathers' health and made life miserable for more than 20 years now, but they are a legal product here and people want to smoke.
I don't like fishing or hunting (bow and arrow of course) but people enjoy or even have a NEED for fishing or hunting.
They may also want to drink in excess, or eat in excess or whatever. These things do kill more people than guns however I don't believe that this place is the place to discuss these thing or to make fun of people who ENJOY those products or are addicted to those those products.
Are we going to start AA threads or dieting threads etc.? Now computer crashes are a good topic to post here....
That was my reason to lock the thread when you compalined, I was pretty much expecting someone to complain when I first saw the post but didn't do anything then. |
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John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 03:31 AM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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js wrote:
Quote:
we can delete the picture that caused Joe to be offended
And what about the smokers, drinkers, people with medical conditions or who just enjot their food etc., will they be next to complain?
What if someone posted a photo of a beautyfull vegetable garden being ravaged by wild rabbits?
I think they are silly examples John and you know it! I have had a look back at some of the other flame wars and it seems to get out of control when Joe weighs in.
Anyway, it is a valid compromise suggestion on how to proceed and should there be any objections, which I doubt will, they can be addressed and I will pull my head in. At that time of course the whole issue of "off topic" needs to be discussed.
As EW (or was it Clawson) has posted in the past, just let topics proceed and see if they can be contained in a respectful manner. Joe obviously cannot!
At this time I am afraid AVRfreaks has become Controlfreaks. |
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Charles Darwin, Lord Kelvin & Murphy are always lurking about!
Lee -.-
(If you haven't already done so, edit your PostNuke profile and let let us know where you are, what you do & what your interests are.)
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 03:46 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6071
Location: Long Island New York
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Wow, this has gotten uglier than the post that started it all.
I just deleted my thoughts on this, as there is enough fuel in this flame already.
John is correct. Just about ANYTHING is offensive to anyone. But NOTHING around here fuels a war like the G-word. Not even the classic Evil Empire vs AVR war(s).
The answer(s) are rather simple.
Get rid of Off-Topic. Of the other 'communities' I belong to only one has an off topic and it is heavily regulated to the point of why bother.
So, why bother here.
The second answer is a little more chewable. SHould a Mod become aware of a topic that has the potential of erupting as this one has either by reading it himself or someone bringing it to their attention then either issue a warning as has been done occasionally, or lock the thread immediately with an explanation in the thread as to why.
Also the descriptor for Off Topic should have BBQ sauce recipes removed and in its place a red lettered warning that any mention of the following will be grounds for thread removal...and a list of those topics. |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 04:01 AM |
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Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 3529
Location: Geelong Australia, Home of the "Cats"
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| I agree with most of what you say Jim. However, I do not agree with
Quote:
But NOTHING around here fuels a war like the G-word.
1. There have been flame wars over other things.
2. Responsible use of guns & gun control is not an issue in Australia, UK and many other advanced countries. I have not seen a flame from anyone else!
In any case I have offered a reasonable suggestion! |
_________________
Charles Darwin, Lord Kelvin & Murphy are always lurking about!
Lee -.-
(If you haven't already done so, edit your PostNuke profile and let let us know where you are, what you do & what your interests are.)
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 04:06 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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LDEVRIES wrote:
I think they are silly examples John and you know it! I have had a look back at some of the other flame wars and it seems to get out of control when Joe weighs in.
...
As EW (or was it Clawson) has posted in the past, just let topics proceed and see if they can be contained in a respectful manner. Joe obviously cannot!
...
You are correct, I do not respect you for your persistent anti-American gun rants. Just like I do not respect bobgardner for his persistent pro-American gun-rants. Frankly, I don't respect anybody who brings up a hot-button issue like this when they either know or should know that it is going to offend folks and start a flame war. And yes I jump in when things get - IMHO - idiotic and express my two cents.
If the owners and or moderators want to allow these pro and anti gun rants to continue unimpeded by me, then they only have to speak up and I'll let you guys go at each other without my input.
And for my own sanity, I'm going to take a 24hour break from AVRFreaks. I think it was Seneca that said the greatest remedy for anger is delay.
Smiley |
_________________
FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
Last edited by smileymicros on Jan 24, 2013 - 04:10 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 04:06 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6071
Location: Long Island New York
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Quote:
1. There have been flame wars over other things.
I agree but the two that come up the #1 and #2 are the G-word and the other one I mentioned.
Quote:
2. Responsible use of guns & gun control is not an issue in Australia, UK and many other advanced countries. I have not seen a flame from anyone else!
I beg to differ, and I am not going to get sucked into this. BUT I will say that something you put in what I quoted I could take offensively, but it would serve no purpose so no worries |
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Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 24, 2013 - 10:27 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62325
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Get rid of Off-Topic.
Personally I'd just vote to call it "Technical (non Atmel)" or perhaps even just the "Fun" Forum.
I'm as interested to read about flying cars as the next person and while I guess there are other sites you can go to for that it's nice to have a one-stop-shop. On the other hand I could not give a flying wotsit through a rolling doughnut about anything to do with politics, religion or gun control. Those things just aren't "fun". |
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