| Author |
Message |
|
|
 Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 08:35 AM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
First of all if I'm in the wrong forum I'm sorry I don't see a general AVR section.
Hello, im looking into getting started with avr and have a few questions to make sure i buy the right stuff im a little confused as to whats compatible with what.
forst off i want to say im fairly new to electronics but not programming. ive spent the last few months working with the propeller. i designed my own prop dev board thats highly overclockable. the problem is the propeller os somewhat exspensive and a beast of a chip. i want to learn avr so i can have a second micro in my aresnal, some times you just need a chip to handel some simple stuff that doesnt require 8 cores and video. ive tried the msp line and im just not impressed with how confusing developing for it can be. im basically going with avr over pic becuase avr asm is easier, avr setups seem cheaper and there is a huge community between avr and the arduino stuff.
soo what i want is a setup letting me program any avr chip or most avrs and i also want to try audino. im hoping to eventually use attiny chips in my products. i also want to complete this project out the gate http://www.ikalogic.com/build-your-40-m ... ncy-meter/ these are the products i plan to buy
https://www.virtuabotix.com/feed/?p=407 i plan on using this as my development base and flashing arduino on and off the chip as needed
http://www.amazon.com/TOL132C1B-Seeedst ... =8-1-spell this is what i want to use to program avrs/arduino. im also wondering if i can use this as a dev board like it says or will i have to erase the programming software on it and then not have a programmer? i chose this due to budget constraints so plz dont recomend the dragon. i just need to make sure it will program most avrs including standard arduino ones and attinys. im not opposed to the adafruit 10 pin isp programmer for 20 this just looked like it could be a dev board too and im not sure if its on amazon, trying to cut shipping.
im just so confused as to wether these avrs chips are all compatible code wise and just the pins are different. i also have a prop plug which is a ftdi serial board but the only pins broken out are rx tx vcc and reset (not sure if thats cts or dtr) will that be any use other than serial communications to program arduino or do i need other pins?
edit link updated |
Last edited by rwgast_logicdesign on Jun 03, 2012 - 07:07 PM; edited 2 times in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 08:53 AM |
|
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16308
Location: Wormshill, England
|
|
The solder station looks incredibly cheap.
The Seedstudio programmer looks expensive. You can buy a Chinese usbasp from Ebay for $3.99 free postage.
I would start with a Seeeduino or other ready-made Arduino board. You don't even need a programmer with an Arduino.
One day you might want to do hardware debugging. A Dragon costs about $50. Yes, it will erase the Arduino bootloader but you can use it to restore the bootloader after you finish debugging.
David. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 09:09 AM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
| Kim sorry it wasn't a suppose to be a solder station it was suppose to be a bareduno kit. I'm really not in this for arduino just want a simple chip set up |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 09:15 AM |
|
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16308
Location: Wormshill, England
|
|
Edit your original post if you had the wrong link.
Seriously, there is a lot to be said for a standard ready-made Arduino. It is worth having something that works first time. You can always add other hardware via a breadboard or soldered proto-board.
David. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 01:54 PM |
|
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62299
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
|
|
|
Quote:
First of all if I'm in the wrong forum I'm sorry I don't see a genealogy Ave section.
By "geneaolgy Ave" I assume you mean "general AVR" (are you using something that auto spell-corrects? I've been using an iPad recently and it drives me bonkers!)
I will therefore move this to the general AVR forum. |
_________________
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 07:05 PM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
ok i edited then link, and fixed the misspelling due to my phone 
anyways as far as building hardware goes id rather i choose to do that instead og buying an arduino. i aslo am looking to program attinys and the like, im do not want a standard arduino. if anyone could help me figure out if that dev board/programmer will do what i want id be very greatefull. now one of the posts above has me worried i cant flash over arduino in the bareduino kit with it |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 07:11 PM |
|
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21258
Location: Orlando Florida
|
|
| I like the ereshop.com mega32 board. Look at the picture and schematic in their site, copy it or buy one. There are many ready to program avr boards. Look on Sparkfun. |
_________________
Imagecraft compiler user
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 07:27 PM |
|
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16308
Location: Wormshill, England
|
|
|
rwgast_logicdesign wrote:
ok i edited then link, and fixed the misspelling due to my phone
anyways as far as building hardware goes id rather i choose to do that instead og buying an arduino. i aslo am looking to program attinys and the like, im do not want a standard arduino. if anyone could help me figure out if that dev board/programmer will do what i want id be very greatefull. now one of the posts above has me worried i cant flash over arduino in the bareduino kit with it
Writing software requires perfect spelling and attention to detail.
Designing / soldering a dev board also requires meticulous attention to detail.
I guess that the bareduino kit will come with a pre-programmed chip. You can't lose the firmware unless you use an external ISP programmer/debugger.
And if you have an external programmer, you can restore the Arduino bootloader whenever you want.
David.
@Bob,
If you never use debugWire or JTAG, why do you buy several JTAGICE-mkII or JTAGICE-3 ? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 07:45 PM |
|
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21258
Location: Orlando Florida
|
|
| You asked if I ever "use JTAG". This could mean two things... a boundary scan to check all the IO pins like the Joint Test Action Group specified, or I could use it to program an AVR. I have been doing this every day since about 2000 when I got the first of several of the rs232 jtagice mkIs. |
_________________
Imagecraft compiler user
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 07:49 PM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
| Well I listed an ISP programmer on the the list the seeestidio thing is suppose to be a programmer I'm wondering its usefulness though will it program most any Ave? And it also states its broken out all the Ave pins to use as a Dec board but how would one do this when there's programming firmware on the chip? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 08:04 PM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
| also to clear some confusion im not saying i want to build an avy dev board what im saying is i built this board for the propeller http://db.tt/mgOBMazu i could load some software on it someone wrote to program avr chips but being new to avr i dont wanna fuss with that. i just want to get off the ground programming avrs for projects like the frequency counyer i linked too and periphrial boards for my prop projects |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 08:06 PM |
|
Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
|
|
I'd strongly suggest you get an real Arduino (by 'real' I mean one from the Arduino folks) to start off. It is solid as a rock and helps finance the Arduino core team that makes all this possible.
Another reason I suggest this is that you state you are strong in coding but weak in hardware which means your Arduino on a breadboard is going to be problematic for you. Yes it is 1/2 price, but if you have a problem you will also have to figure out if it is the code or the breadboard (which can get flaky) or what. Also it lacks a USB connection and with that you've lost a lot of ease of use from using the bootloader.
I have a lot of experience but now I typically do initial tests and prototypes with the Arduino because it is so quick and convenient, then I'll switch to my own custom designs for both the software and hardware feeling confident that when problems occur that I can always back track to the simpler known good system to help identify the bugs.
I'd suggest that if you get one of those ebay programmers rather than the known good Dragon, that you get at least two in case one burns out. Again the reason is that when you go for the cheapest option, you often pay for it in hours figuring out that some intransigent bug is due to the cheapness of the system you are using. But you price your own time so its your choice.
Smiley |
_________________
FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 09:56 PM |
|
Joined: Sep 15, 2011
Posts: 131
Location: Israel
|
|
Will that 74HC191 actually work all the way to 40MHz ?
It's only rated up to 24MHz @ 6v, at least the TI part. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 11:43 PM |
|
Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20367
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
|
|
|
Quote:
This could mean two things...
Try for MORE that 2 things? 
Like looking at and being able to modify variables?
Put one or more breakpoints in your code?
Single step or multistep code?
Looking at port values and being able to change bits?
ie ALL the things you were able to do with a 6800 monitor program.
edit almost forgot, as a fringe benefit you can ALSO program the chips. |
_________________
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 11:52 PM |
|
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21258
Location: Orlando Florida
|
|
I think the last time I tried to use a debugger, I wasn't very good at it, so I didn't mess with it. Lets say I have a little program running in a loop 30 times a sec, and printing out a debug value at 115200. Program doesnt slow down much at all... only takes 5 chars x 83ms/char. Can I get a high speed variable monitor/output/watch using the debugger while the program is looping?
Thanks. |
_________________
Imagecraft compiler user
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 03, 2012 - 11:56 PM |
|
Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20367
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
|
|
|
Quote:
I wasn't very good at it
Never give up Bob, you are still young. 
Quote:
Can I get a high speed variable monitor/output/watch using the debugger while the program is looping?
Of course not but you are in the SAME boat if you don't have a spare serial port. |
_________________
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 04, 2012 - 12:41 AM |
|
Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21258
Location: Orlando Florida
|
|
| So my years and years of using the serial port for hi speed real time variable monitoring was in fact beyond the capabilities of the source level debuggers. Good. I dont feel so stupid now. |
_________________
Imagecraft compiler user
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 04, 2012 - 01:13 AM |
|
Joined: Jun 03, 2012
Posts: 14
|
|
so is there any advantage to a jtag debugger over a logic analyzer?
im really not intrested in arduino i just wanted those kits to play around im not even that intrested in atmega chips except for projects. im just trying to get some perspective on how that programmer can dual as a dev board without erasing the programming software.
when i said i wasnt strong in electeonics i didnt mean i was dumb. im able to follow data sheets and schematics and im able to build simple digital boards with good hi speed design my prop board will oc from 80 to 120mhz stable. i just meant im no awesome guy building discrete solutions and designing rc circuts. im not intrested in an arduino board at all just goofing with the enviroment. most code ill need to write for attinys will be asm. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 04, 2012 - 01:27 AM |
|
Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20367
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
|
|
|
Quote:
is there any advantage to a jtag debugger over a logic analyzer?
Is there any advantage to a screwdriver over a soldering iron?
Can you see and manipulate EVERY BIT of your chip with a logic analyzer? (small screen shot of the inside of a M644p) |
_________________
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Jun 04, 2012 - 01:42 PM |
|
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62299
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
|
|
|
Quote:
so is there any advantage to a jtag debugger over a logic analyzer?
If available I'd always use both. (like John says asking for the advantage of one over the other is like asking the advantage over using saw or screwdriver - to build something you'd usually find a use for both). |
_________________
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Maximize
RSS
