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 Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 05:05 PM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3448
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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| http://shakespeare-online.com/ is a nice place with commentary, analysis and sometimes very helpful (sometimes more confusing than helpful) paraphrases. But I don't think that this is really related to studying normal English as such, this is studying Shakespeare. |
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The Dark Boxes are coming.
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 05:38 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62922
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
I love Shakespearean insults!
Thou goatish half-faced minnow!
Then I imagine you'll love this:
The Shakespeare Programming Language
An example wrote:
[Enter Hamlet and Romeo]
Hamlet:
You lying stupid fatherless big smelly half-witted coward!
You are as stupid as the difference between a handsome rich brave
hero and thyself! Speak your mind!
As it explains:
Explanation wrote:
Assignment of Values
Now, how do we use those numbers? Well, just have a look at the two statements ``You lying stupid fatherless big smelly half-witted coward!'' and ``You are as stupid as the difference between a handsome rich brave hero and thyself!''
The first one is simple: A second person pronoun, followed by a number. The effect of this statement is to assign the value of that number (in this case, $-64$) to the character being spoken to. Think ``$X=-64$''.
The second one is slightly more complicated. For starters, what is the value of ``thyself''? That's not a noun, that's a reflexive pronoun. It's value is the current value of the character being spoken to. So the number in the second statement is $8 - X$, where $X$ is the value of the character being spoken to. And just as you might expect from your experience with English, the second statement is just another assignment. Think ``$X$ = 8 - $X$''. Being ``as bas as'', ``as good as'', or as [any adjective] as something else, means being equal to that something.
Output
The other kind of sentence used in the Hello World program is output. There are two different output sentences, ``Open your heart'' and ``Speak your mind''. The first causes the character being spoken to to output her or his value in numerical form, and the other, being more literal, outputs the corresponding letter, digit, or other character, according to the character set being used by your computer.
So the quoted speech by Hamlet outputs the letter "H" (in fact this is the 'H' or "Hello world" in the classic "Hello World" program).
(8 - (-64) = 72 = ASCII character 'H') |
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 07:01 PM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6756
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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| Reminds me of COBOL. |
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Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 08:54 AM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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| I'm afraid I'm gonna take a rest in a madhouse after such insults))) |
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 03:18 PM |
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Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 4040
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
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| Hence, horrible villain, or I'll spurn thine eyes like balls before me; I'll unhair thy head, Thou shalt be whipp'd with wire, and stew'd'in brine, smarting in lingering pickle. |
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Discursive design,
Torby
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 03:45 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 13956
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Though Shakespeare would be advanced English
I would not call Shakespeare "advanced" English, it is archaic English. |
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Regards,
Steve A.
The Board helps those that help themselves.
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 04:22 PM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6756
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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Quote:
Hence, horrible villain, or I'll spurn thine eyes like balls before me; I'll unhair thy head, Thou shalt be whipp'd with wire, and stew'd'in brine, smarting in lingering pickle.
How do you expect us to debug such a small snippet of code? |
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Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 05:13 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6144
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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Koshchi wrote:
Quote:
Though Shakespeare would be advanced English
I would not call Shakespeare "advanced" English, it is archaic English.
Wikipedia:
Quote:
By the time of William Shakespeare (mid 16th - early 17th century),[13] the language had become clearly recognisable as Modern English.
Some even go so far as to say Shakespeare defined modern English.
Smiley |
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 05:13 PM |
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Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 4040
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
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Wishing to know Visual C# better (Shudder), I built myself a program with the shakespearean insulter kit, so every 60 seconds at the bottom of my screen, it calls me something rediculous. I think the Bard himself did a better job, Thou wayward fen-sucked flap-dragon.
I'd put it in a tiny 2313 if I had a good output device handy. |
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Discursive design,
Torby
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 05:20 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 13956
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
By the time of William Shakespeare (mid 16th - early 17th century),[13] the language had become clearly recognisable as Modern English.
When was the last time you used an expression like "wherefore art thou"? Do you even know, without looking it up, what it means? |
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Regards,
Steve A.
The Board helps those that help themselves.
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 05:45 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62922
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Do you even know, without looking it up, what it means?
Sadly yes.
(Didn't most people here do a play like Romeo & Juliet for O-level English or whatever the exam is called in your country? The upside was the coach outing to all go and see the Zeffirelli 1968 film version and large amounts of humorous tittering from the back rows when they get it on the night before they die.  Sadly the study/exam involved analysing pretty much every sentence line by line to understand the true meaning. But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east and Juliet is the sun...) |
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 08:35 PM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 6036
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Torby wrote:
I'll unhair thy head
... you're too late ... nature got there before you. |
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Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 08:46 PM |
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Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 4443
Location: Hemel Hemsptead, UK
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Also yes - but my local accent used thee and thou forms well into the seventies and later: "Don't thee thou me; I'll tell thee when thee can thou me."
Studying Shakespeare as writing takes all the joy from it. If you want to know Shakespeare, get thee hence to the Globe and watch it.
Critics and literary analysts should be drowned at birth. I have a firm belief that picking words apart tells you as much about a play or a book as a kick in the balls tells you about a cobbler. |
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Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 10:23 PM |
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Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 4040
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
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| One Dr. Who companion, Ace, was supposed to be an American. She blew it once when she said to Sylvester McCoy (sp?) "Don't let's be cross." |
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Discursive design,
Torby
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 12:01 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6144
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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Koshchi wrote:
Quote:
By the time of William Shakespeare (mid 16th - early 17th century),[13] the language had become clearly recognisable as Modern English.
When was the last time you used an expression like "wherefore art thou"? Do you even know, without looking it up, what it means?
Of course I know what it means. I had the Bible crammed down my throat when I was kid so I'm quite familiar with thees and thous and wherefores and etc. Did you have to look it up?
I see far more difference in the English of the Cantebury Tales from 200 years before Shakespeare than I do in his work and what we see 400 years later.
I think my argument was with 'archaic'. I don't see much more difference in most of Shakespeare versus what is spoken today than I see the difference in what I learned growing up (in a very rural Southern area) and what is spoken today. I'd almost be willing to say that there is less difference between Shakespeare and modern English than what is spoken in British pubs versus what is spoken in our honky-tonks.
But I do agree that reading Shakespeare doesn't help a non-English speaker learn modern English as well as say watching every episode of South Park would.
Smiely |
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 12:24 AM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21390
Location: Orlando Florida
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| How about George Clooney, "O Brother Where Art Thou", an odd take on the Iliad and the Odessy, and its hit song, "I Am A Man Of Constant Sorrow" |
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Imagecraft compiler user
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 12:30 AM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6756
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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| But where are thou != wherefore art thou, which is (I think) Steve's point. |
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Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 01:01 AM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3448
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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smileymicros wrote:
But I do agree that reading Shakespeare doesn't help a non-English speaker learn modern English as well as say watching every episode of South Park would.
That's my method. |
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The Dark Boxes are coming.
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 01:25 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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| I've known university grads with degrees in English that were surprised to know that "wherefore" does not mean "where" but "why". Public education sucks. |
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Posted: May 02, 2012 - 03:28 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6144
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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O Romeo, Romeo!wherefore art thou Romeo?
Down in the bush you damn fool, the ladder broke. |
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FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
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