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 Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 03:18 PM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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Well! I want to say 'Thank you so much!' for the help.
All have been told me I've digested carefully.
The first candidates to read are:
1. Winnie The Pooh. I also, as JohanEkdahl, was fostered on it. Very beautiful story and animation based on it. In Russia we saw two versions: our native and Walt Disney Company's.
2. Harry Potter. I saw several films in Russian and English. Now I'm gonna try to read some of them.
3. "DiscWorld" novels by Terry Pratchett. As smileymicros warned me there are puns. I think it's useful to me to have met with them.
Other recommendations I also accept. I will continue reading the news (usual on BBC) and watching the films.
As for Russian translations into English I don't know what to say  But it's surely very interesting. Need to see)
smileymicros, did you have a fun with those both authors? |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 03:35 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18531
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
In Russia we saw two versions: our native and Walt Disney Company's.
For the recent'ish Disney versions I consider them a pure rape. IMO nothing of the original thoughtfulness and "finesse" remains. They totally "miss the point" E.g. Tigger is completely and utterly destroyed. In retrospect, it was one of the sad days in English literature when the rights where sold off to Disney. |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:09 PM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
They totally "miss the point"
That's why my mother (long ago) and my wife (now) don't like it)
But when I was a child I love both versions. Now I'm gonna download original book and have a fun))) |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:15 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21251
Location: Orlando Florida
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| I bought a book called "The Dictionary Of Cultural Literacy" by Hersch, Kett and Trefil, Houghton-Milllin, and I have loaned it to many of my buddies from other countries to help them catch up on US idioms and literary references. It might be on Amazon. I'd be surprised if it wasn't. |
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Imagecraft compiler user
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:15 PM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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| Frankly speaking, there is a very very bad Disney's animation which I don't like. It's Tom and Jerry. I think there are plenty of violence. Poor cat! |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:18 PM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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bobgardner wrote:
and I have loaned it to many of my buddies from other countries to help them catch up on US idioms and literary references.
Oh, it's very tempting offer! |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:45 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62230
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
there is a very very bad Disney's animation which I don't like. It's Tom and Jerry.
Not Disney - they were MGM. They lost their way after 1967 when it appeared they were trying to do cell shade animation on the cheap. |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 04:52 PM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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clawson wrote:
Quote:
there is a very very bad Disney's animation which I don't like. It's Tom and Jerry.
Not Disney - they were MGM. They lost their way after 1967 when it appeared they were trying to do cell shade animation on the cheap.
Oh, I made a blunder. My apologizes to Desney! |
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 05:08 PM |
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Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 3865
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
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| No need to apologize to Disney! In one of their winnie-the-pooh animations, Christopher Robin isn't even an English boy! Shocking. |
_________________
Discursive design,
Torby
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 - 05:22 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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haker_fox wrote:
smileymicros, did you have a fun with those both authors?
Oddly, I found that the late 19th century Russian authors spoke for 'my people' much more accurately than my contemporary English (language) authors. It seems that these characters were allowed to think more deeply and struggle with their souls more than what I was seeing in my native tongue. And by soul, I don't mean the spooky thing that religions talk about, I mean the inner person - the 'me' that argues constantly with the rest of 'me. Both American and British writing from that period seems naive in comparison. Okay: IMHO.
As far as Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, my step-son recommended it and is (was?) trying to get it made into a movie. It presents the Devil in a way I've not seen before, more of a clown than an evil and yet more evil for it, and it has some very visual scenes which I think would translate well to the screen.
Smiley |
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 02:24 AM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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Torby wrote:
No need to apologize to Disney!
OK, I wont.
Torby wrote:
In one of their winnie-the-pooh animations, Christopher Robin isn't even an English boy! Shocking.
How could they make such mistake?  |
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 02:44 AM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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smileymicros wrote:
haker_fox wrote:
smileymicros, did you have a fun with those both authors?
Oddly, I found that the late 19th century Russian authors spoke for 'my people' much more accurately than my contemporary English (language) authors. It seems that these characters were allowed to think more deeply and struggle with their souls more than what I was seeing in my native tongue. And by soul, I don't mean the spooky thing that religions talk about, I mean the inner person - the 'me' that argues constantly with the rest of 'me. Both American and British writing from that period seems naive in comparison. Okay: IMHO.
As far as Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, my step-son recommended it and is (was?) trying to get it made into a movie. It presents the Devil in a way I've not seen before, more of a clown than an evil and yet more evil for it, and it has some very visual scenes which I think would translate well to the screen.
Smiley
Thank you for such response about the authors! They really were the great authors! Some of their works were studied by me in a school. Unfortunately, after the October Revolution and establishment the Soviet Government we had lost them (not only Dostoevsky and Bulgakov). There was a tabu for such freedom ideas.  Fortunately, the tabu has been destroyed over past years.
As far the movie - it's a great idea! I would watch it with great pleasure! |
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 04:00 AM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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Actually there there was a mini series for TV done in Russia in 2005, so you might be able to find that. I think my step-son was looking for a version with English sub-titles but I don't know if he found it. I'll ask next time we talk.
Smiley |
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 05:20 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2654
Location: Minneapolis
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westfw wrote:
sixty pages of John Galt speech in a foreign language? OMG!
Well worth the time no doubt, but "We the Living" might be more interesting to a Russian: a wonderful semi-biographical novel set in the Bolshevic revolution. She was too young to understand the western preference for happy endings, but she learned. |
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 12:06 PM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3411
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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| Original Tom & Jerry cartoons are early Hanna-Barbera work. Then they scaled up and it's easy to see how quality of stories and animation went downhill. Not everyone pays enough attention to cartoons to notice such things, but it had to be said. |
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The Dark Boxes are coming.
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 12:51 PM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3411
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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It's an interesting thread.
@smiley: I didn't realize that Master and Margarita was known to the English world at all. Although you might be not a typical representative. The 2005 mini TV series is actually alright. Many fans of the book criticise it, and it has really poor camera work and incredibly monotonous pace, but the actors are great and it revitalised the interest to the novel. It even made me think for a while that not all is lost for the Russian TV, but unfortunately that feeling quickly passed away.
As for English translations of Russian authors... I think reading them can be interesting, but on a different level. Colleagues often ask me how to say this in English or how to translate that. I tend to get completely dumbfounded by such questions because translation is not a matter of knowing a foreign language. Even in daily routine business correspondence you have to rethink the idea completely and synthesize it over again to produce a readable sentence or a paragraph. Seeing how professionals cope with this problem can be very educational. But just reading your favourite Russian novel in English for the first time can cause a lot of discomfort, even protest. Actually, Russian translations of foreign texts are often less than stellar either. This is less so for the classics, but the modern translations are often just awful. The situation is even worse with the Spanish, as I have discovered recently, even though Russian and Spanish appear to be more emotionally close to eachother. I enjoy finding translators' errors, they make me feel that the time invested in learning was well spent.
It may be very intersting to read Nabokov's English language originals. Reading Pnin changed my opinion on foreign languages: I discovered that you can write in English with Russian stylistics and be a great English language writer. BTW, most translations of Pnin into Russian are awful too.
JohanEkdahl wrote:
Personally I swear by "Winnie The Pooh" (A.A. Milne) to but that is because I was fostered on them. (If you ever decide to learn Swedish the translations are excellent!)
+1. When I was like 5 I knew most of the book by heart. In Russian of course, but it doesn't change anything.
Nobody has mentioned Alice in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass? How so? They are a rather hard read by the way. |
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The Dark Boxes are coming.
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 - 06:45 PM |
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Joined: Jan 09, 2007
Posts: 1860
Location: Arlington, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 04:59 AM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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svofski wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Alice in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass? How so? They are a rather hard read by the way.
Oh, I tried to read this one some years ago. It did seem to me it was a hard work. There were a lot of complex sentences and thoughts. I wonder whether I can read it now? It needs to try over again  |
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 05:02 AM |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Russia, Far East Siberia, Irkutsk
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 - 04:37 PM |
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Joined: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 3865
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
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I love Shakespearean insults!
Thou goatish half-faced minnow! |
_________________
Discursive design,
Torby
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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