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 Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 03:33 AM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Overview of Xmega Lineup Document?
I assume it exists, I just can seem to find it...
I looking on the Atmel site for a single document which describes the entire Xmega Lineup, and gives a brief description of the key features/differences in the various chips.
It should describe the difference between the A, B, C, and D series; which ones have USB, which ones do/don't have a DAC, etc.
I found the AVR Xmega page, and if one selects "Datasheets" there are 20+ Manuals listed. But not an overview.
In the "Other Documents" listing there is an AVR Xmega document which looks promising... but it was a 2008 release...
Using the Parametric Table is a start, but it is still not a short description of the Xmega series overview.
I'm sure it exists, if someone could point me in the correct direction it would be appreciated.
JC |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 10:23 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62371
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
I'm sure it exists
You have more faith than I then!
For example have you ever seen anything more than the parametric table for helping you select between tinys or megas?
(actually I once got a really useful .ppt from an Atmel FAE but AFAIK this was not for general distribution). |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 02:20 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Hello Atmel...
Very Frustrating, NOT a good customer experience!
There are now 40 Xmegas in the lineup, and a clear, concise, summary document would be useful.
Even the parametric table is only moderately helpful. I couldn't remove unwanted columns to try to make it more readable on the screen. For example, all Xmegas run at 32 MHz Max clock speed, remove that column... No way to do that. Lets see, none of them have Can or Lin bus modules, lets remove those columns... Not doable.
Lets select those that have the DAC module. OK, there is even a slider bar for 0-4 DACs. Set the slider whereever you want, I couldn't make the table remove those that don't contain the DAC.
Come on, Atmel. Your running a multi-million dollar business. This isn't Marketing 101. You spent the time and resources to roll out the "New & Improved" Xmegas, with the USB module and many of the errata fixed, how about spending the time and effort to help your customer understand the line up, (A's, B's, C's, D's, 1's, 3's, 4's, U's, No 2's, and an occassional extra "B", (A3BU).
If the document does exist then I apologize for the rant, but please point me to it. I'm relatively familar with the uC part of the Atmel web site and I couldn't find it with > 1 hour of looking.
If it does exist then at least Cliff and I couldn't easily find it, how many other (potential) customers also couldn't find it?
How many potential customers are really going to keep looking for an hour when the competitor's web site is only a click away?
JC |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 02:28 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62371
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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It's so tempting to "do a Leon". I know the perfect parametric selector but I'm afraid it doesn't belong to Atmel 
Actually digikey or, better, Farnell have filtering parametric selectors that are 10 times better than the rubbish on atmel.com |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 06:43 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Hello Atmel...
OK, let's beat this issue to death.
Here is another new Xmega Thread, posted today, from a newbie to AVR's looking for a summary of the Xmega lineup! He wants to know what the A, B, C, D, 1, 2, 3, 4 etc refer to. He's looking for an Xmega to meet his needs and can't find what he is looking for.
Eric has stated a few thimes that there are some Atmel "lurkers" on the forum, and Dean usually keeps tabs on the Xmega Forum. How about someone at least acknowledging the request and forwarding a copy of the above to someone in a position to act on it.
Maybe I'll have to bring it up "from the floor" of the next shareholder's meeting when they ask for any new business to come before the Board.
JC |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 07:17 PM |
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 7429
Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea (UK)
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| People can contact Atmel support, or their local sales office, of course, for part selection advice. |
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Leon Heller
G1HSM
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 07:39 PM |
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 9832
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
Eric has stated a few thimes that there are some Atmel "lurkers" on the forum, and Dean usually keeps tabs on the Xmega Forum. How about someone at least acknowledging the request and forwarding a copy of the above to someone in a position to act on it.
We have some training documents on them, but they're just basic overviews of the target market segments. Unfortunately the guys in said training team are out this week, so I can't ask for a copy yet, but I agree this is important. IIRC there is a current discussion on what information to put on on the website regarding the XMEGAs, so I'll forward your request to that team.
- Dean  |
_________________
Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 07:43 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62371
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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I think I once understood that the A to D switch meant loss of things like EBI and the 1 to 4 switch had an impact on package size (and hence how many IO and peripherals) or something like that? Did I get that wrong or misunderstand?
(I do know that at the time (pre D4) it was suggested we develop on A1 for something ultimately living in a smaller, cheaper D4 as long as we understood that pins and peripherals would be curtailed to achieve the price). |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 08:12 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Hi Dean,
Thank you for responding.
One shouldn't have to figure out for themself that B's have glass drivers, so don't bother looking at them if that isn't a needed capability, etc.
While trying to match a project's requirements list to what is listed as existing, and then further trying to determine which ones actually are available in small quantities from distributors such as Mouser, (vs what is available to the mega-thousands quantities customers), I identified a few Missing Xmegas.
I was cross-correlating my Xmega notes with what I could currently find on the Atmel site and the following are no longer listed on the Xmega page:
192A1
256A1
384A1
64A4
128A4
They also do NOT show up under the Mature Devices page.
I'll just consider them "Missing In Action" until they find their way back to the existing or foreever gone lists.
I fully understand that the "New & Improved" Xmega's may/could/should replace a number of the earlier versions.
But shouldn't the earlier versions that Atmel no longer wishes to promote make it to the Mature Devices Page?
Perhaps someone in Senior Management just doesn't want to list a "new" Xmega chip as already dead and gone? (As opposed to another uC manufacturer who is known for keeping its chips around forever...)
Such an approach leaves me in limbo.
Last Rant, related to the above:
The Parametric Page is a good start, but not really functional for the end user. See the above comments about other Parametric Engines/Tables out there.
[/Rant]
Thanks Dean,
JC |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 08:20 PM |
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Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Germany
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Furthermore there is the site with the topic "Atmel AVR 8- and 32-bit Microcontrollers"
Right hand there is a menu containing "ยป What's Changed". Nothing happens here since months.
rh |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 08:29 PM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2007
Posts: 356
Location: Oxford (England)
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Even if you know the chip you want, it's not easy getting to it. As an example... I would have thought that searching the Atmel site for an xmega32a4 would give me a list of documents for that chip, however...
Atmel's rubbish search that requires you to hit enter twice wrote:
Your search - xmega32a4 - did not match any documents.
I'd also like to know what the 'C' range is. I kind of know that the 'D' range is a castrated 'A' (less USARTS, no DMA), so I'd guess that the 'C' range is in between somehow. I thought I'd try and find out... so I clicked on the 'ATxmega384C' in the parameteric table.
Atmel's squished up and really very, very small parametric table linked to a page that wrote:
The requested page cannot be found.
<sigh>
There are actually more variants than I'd imagined: e.g.
A3
A3U
A3B
A3BU
B3
C3
D3
I had thought that the U suffix denoted USB functionality, yet the C devices seem to have USB too - is there something different about the USB on the 'C' devices?
So 'B' is for LCD drivers? That's as a prefix right, because as a suffix, it's for 'B'attery backed RTC?
And will there ever be an A4 with 32kb SRAM?
What about an A5? I'd love a Mega8 replacement.
Oh, and a flying car please. |
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Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 08:34 PM |
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 9832
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
But shouldn't the earlier versions that Atmel no longer wishes to promote make it to the Mature Devices Page?
Quote:
They also do NOT show up under the Mature Devices page.
I don't think those particular models were ever made (except perhaps for ES devices) - no point marking an unreleased product as "mature". I'm sure released devices that are deprecated will carry a normal maturity announcement.
Quote:
One shouldn't have to figure out for themself that B's have glass drivers, so don't bother looking at them if that isn't a needed capability, etc.
Absolutely, I think describing each family on the site individually would be best.
Quote:
I think I once understood that the A to D switch meant loss of things like EBI and the 1 to 4 switch had an impact on package size (and hence how many IO and peripherals) or something like that? Did I get that wrong or misunderstand?
This isn't Atmel canon - it's off the top of my head. In any case:
A Series: ALL THE THINGS! General purpose. New devices have USB.
B Series: LCD and USB.
C Series: USB, large memory, slower ADC with more channels.
D Series: Reduced feature set, no USB, cheap.
Within each series you have a number; a lower number is "better" (bigger and has more features) while a higher number is a reduced version of the series with smaller pin counts and less peripherals. That means an A1 has lots of things, and an A4 has the same things (except EBI), but in a lower quantity.
You should be evaluating the series manuals first; find one with the features you want, then look for the smallest version (highest model number) in the series that still has a capabilities that you want.
- Dean |
_________________
Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Mar 29, 2012 - 09:23 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62371
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
A Series: ALL THE THINGS! General purpose. New devices have USB.
B Series: LCD and USB.
C Series: USB, large memory, slower ADC with more channels.
D Series: Reduced feature set, no USB, cheap.
I thought "U" suffix was the indicator of USB ?
Quote:
Atmel's rubbish search that requires you to hit enter twice wrote:
Your search - xmega32a4 - did not match any documents.
A search for "atxmega32a4" on the other hand hits lots of results. |
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Posted: Mar 29, 2012 - 02:01 PM |
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 9832
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
I thought "U" suffix was the indicator of USB ?
Only for the A series parts, to differentiate them from the originally released devices that lack USB (and working ADC, am I right?  ). All B and C series devices ship with USB, no D series have USB.
- Dean |
_________________
Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Mar 29, 2012 - 02:04 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62371
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Oh now that is confusing. Does someone in Norway sit in a shed with a random number generator and every time the boffins design new silicon they pop down the garden to get the next number shoved under the door scrawled on the back of an old fag packet?
I'm guessing the numbering comes from "marketing" and we all know what that means! |
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 08:14 AM |
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Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 21
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 08:28 AM |
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Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 2512
Location: Redmond, WA USA
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| Edit: deleted by self |
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Larry
Those afraid to embrace the future will quickly fade into the past. - larryvc
Last edited by larryvc on Jun 23, 2012 - 05:07 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 04:46 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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SG,
Thanks for the link.
Perhaps one day we will see a similar App Note describing the overview of the entire Xmega Lineup.
JC |
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 07:02 PM |
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3809
Location: Denmark
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 09:18 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Wie gehts, Bingo. Ich sprecha nur ein bischen Deutsch.
Or something like that...
It is always good to hear from you.
I'll take a look at the link.
JC |
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Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 10:19 AM |
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Joined: Feb 09, 2011
Posts: 323
Location: Turnhout, Belgium
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Are all the 'new' A,B,C and D versions pin compatible and interchangeable (except for the differences of course)?
I've checked the AU, B, C and D datasheets I found and it seemed to me that they are interchangeable. The 'old' A version has a different pin-out than the D while the AU has the same pin-out.
Can someone confirm this? At the moment I'm working on 2 boards with an XMEGA and it would really be nice if we could build some versions with a D XMEGA and other with an A XMEGA (or B or C depending on the needs). |
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Posted: Oct 02, 2012 - 08:16 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6856
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Quote:
Overview of Xmega Lineup Document?
I assume it exists, I just can seem to find it...
Well, there was no Xmega Lineup Summary Document available 6+ Months ago, and one still doesn't exist...
And now Jim has started his own Tiny Lineup Summary Document in This Thread .
Come on, Atmel! Why do you make your users jump through such hoops?
JC
Edit: Please Stand By, my comment will be available as soon as I enter a Captcha code. With 6000 Thread replies I could easily be confused with a Spambot... |
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