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 Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:01 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Saw these on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-1662 ... 2887344781
And:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130614568084?ss ... 1423.l2649
Are they OLD Hell Yes!! 
But for the price to channels I would be willing to take the plunge.
So which one?
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first 
Last edited by jgmdesign on Jan 04, 2012 - 06:45 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:11 PM |
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16269
Location: Wormshill, England
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I would buy neither. How often would you need that many channels?
If you want to choose one, go for the one that has leads.
In practice, a Saleae Logic 8-channel will suit most people most of the time.
David. |
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:38 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Both have the leads. And yes I will not need all the channels, but the idea was to get a machine that can sit in the lab for extended testing. I just bougt a Salea 8 channel usb unit that I am curious to its abilities. Will be good for field work.
Thanks david!!
JIm |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:44 PM |
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Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 1578
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:49 PM |
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3808
Location: Denmark
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:56 PM |
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16269
Location: Wormshill, England
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Alan,
I would be interested in how you get on with the Open Workbench. Especially if you end up never sampling faster than 5MHz.
The clone should work too. It is worth it just for the leads !! Note that Saleae and USbee will not appreciate punters seeing just how 'cheap and simple' their hardware is. However the software is the important ingredient.
David. |
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 05:58 PM |
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3808
Location: Denmark
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 06:02 PM |
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Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 1578
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Hi,
david.prentice wrote:
I would be interested in how you get on with the Open Workbench. Especially if you end up never sampling faster than 5MHz.
I plan to post a review of it when I've given it the run through!
Thanks,
Alan |
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 06:04 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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I might pick up that knock off brick for the price.
Especially if it works with the software that comes with the Saleae I just bought this morning
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 06:32 PM |
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Joined: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 3849
Location: South West Utah, USA
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On these older analyzers it is not just "the leads". Often it is a system of cabling to the mainframe, pods, connectors and/or flying leads. This entire combination is specific to a particular logic analyzer model and it can be really, really hard to almost expensive/impossible to find the correct combination of these parts for any given logic analyzer model. Some pods are setup only for differential measurements that usually also cut the channel capacity in half. You should have the part numbers for these parts from the seller and research what they are actually for. Old HP sales books are a good resource for this.
One advantage is often these have programmable logic thresholds for different logic families. This allows you to setup correctly for different Vcc levels even when the logic family type is the same. Also typically the sampling and glitch signal catchers are lots quicker than inexpensive modern analyzers. All of this totally depends on each logic analyzer model.
Some disadvantages are these often have very loud fan noise and take lots of bench space.
david.prentice wrote:
How often would you need that many channels?
I have a DSO with 80 logic channels and one with just 160 logic channels. Both are great for large parallel memory buses. I do not have a more convenient modern low cost USB analyzer simply because it is allot less capable then what I already have. I would still like to get a USB one though when I have spare cash laying around. |
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 07:01 PM |
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3808
Location: Denmark
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Posted: Dec 27, 2011 - 09:15 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62228
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Ah the HP1650. I used one for years. It was one of the most powerful software development tools I ever used but maybe a bit of over-kill for an 8bit micro! (we used them a lot in the early stages of designing our first 8086 IBM PC XT clone)
(what annoys me is that at one stage our company cleared out a load of "old" equipment and the 4 or 5 of these we had just went to one of those ebay resellers. I wish I'd offered our company £50 for one at the time!) |
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Posted: Dec 28, 2011 - 12:02 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Cliff,
Is your vote for the HP then?
Jim
EDIT: Left the C out of Cliff |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Dec 28, 2011 - 05:52 AM |
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Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 1109
Location: Pool of Goo
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I own several of the HP1662..well actually I did before I threw two of them out..still have one. Also owned one of the HP1650 but I threw that out too..could not give them away on ebay..disliked throwing them away but people to cheap to even pay the shipping...
shouold point out that the probes and the clips shown in the 1650 picture are worth quite a lot. I bought tons of them on ebay for about $15 to $40 for each set in the zipper bag. I use them on the end of those inexpensive test leads you buy from several ebay vendors with a female pin on each end. The hp clip works perfect with them. ...like the other posts say the cheap usb analysers are usefull for somethings, but the advanced triggering on the HP are way better.. but you may never need that. in the old days looking at wide busses these were without equal for tracking glitches and memory access violations...etc. |
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Posted: Dec 28, 2011 - 04:11 PM |
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Joined: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 852
Location: Junction City, OR USA
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jgmdesign:
Before you make your decision, you should read all of this thread about the OLS.
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1711
(part of the first post from Jan 25, 2011)
Quote:
I've been busy... A few weeks ago I ported the OLS FPGA into Verilog
(with which I'm more familiar), and started fixing things.
I design fpga's (big one's) for a living, so I quickly saw several areas
where the old design wasn't great.
My version meets timing trivially now. For fun I threw in a meta ROM &
fixed RLE for all combination's of channels. Even added that 0x05 command
to disable RLE mode.
I then decided to show you lot exactly what you can do with an fpga.
Too many remarks about difficulty in meeting timing, etc... 
My goal:
How much of a big HP 16550a timing logic analyzer can it handle?
Answer:
MOST of it. Really!
If you must have the HP, I would go for the 1662A if it has the full set of probes.
Rick |
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Posted: Dec 28, 2011 - 08:48 PM |
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Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 1109
Location: Pool of Goo
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Quote:
If you must have the HP, I would go for the 1662A if it has the full set of probes.
Rick
thats a good point the actual probe ends are not shown in the 1662a pictures...they just sort of dissapear into the probe pouch. You should ask the seller to show the cable ends (probes and clips) and see if they are complete before purchasing. |
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Posted: Dec 28, 2011 - 09:43 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62228
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Is your vote for the HP then?
Not sure I follow that question - both devices in your first post are HP. The 1662 is higher spec than the 1650 if that helps?
HP spent a lot of time and money changing their brand for test tools from "HP" to "Agilent". I don't think anyone really cared. I remember getting tons of surveys from them at the time asking things like "Does the name Agilent suggest a fast response to support requests?" and that kind fo thing - total marketing bullshit. If I had my way CIF would still be called JIF, Straburst would still be Opal Fruits and, the big one, Snickers (in the UK) would still be called Marathon. |
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 - 02:23 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Nice Clff.
UPS just delivered my Saleae 8 channel logic analyzer. Very impressive. Nice milled aluminum case. I would open it to see what is inside but at $200.00usd I am not going to even think about it. I cannot wait to play with it this evening.
Still have not picked which one of the HP's I am considering though. Some questions have been sent to the sellers though.
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 - 08:10 AM |
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Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 5994
Location: Tampere, Finland
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jgmdesign wrote:
UPS just delivered my Saleae 8 channel logic analyzer. Very impressive. Nice milled aluminum case. I would open it to see what is inside but at $200.00usd I am not going to even think about it. I cannot wait to play with it this evening.
You don't have to open it yourself, the manufacturer's blog has had pictures of it wide open, as well as sigrok project here: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Saleae_Logic |
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 - 08:49 AM |
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 16269
Location: Wormshill, England
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The case is sexy.
The pcb probably costs $10-$15 to manufacture in quantity.
The 'value' is in the software+hardware combination.
And the quality of the probe / grabbers.
I do not begrudge the selling price.
David. |
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 - 12:40 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Japel wrote:
Quote:
You don't have to open it yourself, the manufacturer's blog has had pictures of it wide open, as well as sigrok project here: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Saleae_Logic
Saved me from doing the unthinkable! THanks!
@ DAvid,
Untill I try it out, I will save my thoughts. The software is ok, but I will have to RTFM to fully understand the "Logic" behind the Logic
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Dec 31, 2011 - 04:14 PM |
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Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 159
Location: Lancaster PA
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Hey Jim!
I'd pick the 1650 just because I can see the cable, jumpers and clips in the picture.
If you get confirmation that those parts are included with 1662 then I would pick it, newer, higher specs and lower cost/
Have a happy New Year!
Jeff |
_________________
Jeff Dombach, JLD Systems
"We do the stuff behind the buttons!"
Your source for embedded solutions with a 100% Guarantee.
http://www.jldsystems.com
Phone 717.892.1100
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Posted: Jan 04, 2012 - 06:45 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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WEll I got the Logic8 up and running and for what it is and does not a bad piece of kit!! The software is very straightforward and the hardware is a no brainer too. Worth the price.
Now, on to the big boy. I bailed on both analyzers. One was because the seller was a dick and in spite of the ad saying 100% functionalality he does not understand the unit and got pissed. Too bad jackwagon
The second one that had the clips in it at least says that the unit is sold AS IS so even though the screen says good who knows, and since I have to pay the shipping both ways not really worth the hassle
Then I found this one on the back pages. Cost less than the others and free shipping.
80 channels
color Touchscreen
PC Controlable(I have to get the software)
Newer
There are other function boards that fit inside it for expandability.
Good find |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 04, 2012 - 07:56 PM |
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Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 159
Location: Lancaster PA
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jgmdesign wrote:
Cost less than the others and free shipping.
80 channels
color Touchscreen
PC Controlable(I have to get the software)
Newer
There are other function boards that fit inside it for expandability.
Good find
This one sound much sweeter then the other two. Is it Agilent?
edit: Nevermind I see the logo now that I logged in. Kind of an odd looking thing with the big right panel only containing a single knob. |
_________________
Jeff Dombach, JLD Systems
"We do the stuff behind the buttons!"
Your source for embedded solutions with a 100% Guarantee.
http://www.jldsystems.com
Phone 717.892.1100
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Posted: Jan 04, 2012 - 08:36 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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yes it is odd, but there is a reason, there is a hard drive behind the panel and there is a load of space for the extra cards as this is a frame so I can go bigger than 80 channels or add other function cards. it is a touchscreen so you use the screen and the knob, push knob or touch screen to select. I liked the other two analyzers better fro the front panel, but I will look past that for this one and the price. $150.00
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 05, 2012 - 12:31 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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When I get the color analyzer I will do a matchup between it and the Logic8 on the same circuit and see what the results are and let everyone know
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 08, 2012 - 03:03 AM |
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Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 1578
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Hi Everyone,
I received both the OLS and the Itead "Mini Logic" so I thought I'd post my initial impressions of them:
OLS: $50 (board only)
+ Higher capture speed (200 Mhz) (although I could only get it to work at 100 Mhz, haven't sought support yet)
+ Firmware was easy to update and is constantly being updated.
+ Board is nice and clean, red silkscreen.
- Limited capture memory (24K, but RLE feature can expand it many times)
- Software (java based) is nice, but still beta.
- No case, not even rubber legs.
- Comes with no cables ($6 more for one with grabbers)
Itead Mini Logic: $49.90 (package)
+ Saleae/USBee/USB Blaster compatibility offers many polished software choices. More protocol analyzers.
+ Virtually unlimited capture memory
+ Comes in a case
+ Comes with 3 cables (1) 2x7 header to squid female for 0.025" posts or breadboard jumper cables (2) 2x7 header to grabbers (soldered on) (3) 2x7 header to 2x5 header
- Lower capture speed (24 Mhz)
- Board is a mess of leftover flux (I hate dirty boards)
- Unknown firmware updates. None posted as of now, maybe someday, but then again maybe never.
- Pictures on their site are misleading, it does not come with grabbers that detach, but a dedicated grabber cable assembly
I did notice that to properly analyze a 1.2 Mhz SPI sample I had to sample at 8 Mhz, so roughly 8 times my SPI speed. This would make the 24 Mhz speed of the Itead unit capable of analyzing communication that is 3 Mhz or slower. Obviously the OLS can capture faster with much less data, but how often will you need it?
The grabbers on both are cheap. I didn't have any problems with them grabbing on, but the cable they used on it is cheap and you can't just pull the wires apart, you must carefully cut them apart. The cable end is soldered directly to the cheap grabber.
If I were just going to buy one it would be the Itead. I like the OLS, but I'd grab for the Itead first if analyzing anything slower than 3 Mhz. Even though a real Saleae would be 3 times the price, it probably comes with a clean of flux board, much nicer grabbers, and a premium case.
Thanks,
Alan |
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Posted: Jan 08, 2012 - 02:22 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Good notes!
My HP should arrive this week. So I will have my finds up shortly.
The Saleae I noticed needs a high smaple rate as well, but what bugs me is when I am looking at an SPI stream no matter what sample rate the clock does not always look correct. The data is fine, but it is the reason I want to match it up to the HP to see what happens.
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 08, 2012 - 03:23 PM |
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Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 1578
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| That HP looks sweet for sure. I agree I like a clock to look nice and consistent and the ebb and flow of sampling at a lower speed never looks good. |
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Posted: Jan 08, 2012 - 06:51 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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A low sample will never give you a nice output. My SPI has a 500khz clock, and I sample it at no less than 2mhz. There seems to be no better at hight rates either. When it comes to sampling oyu always oversample to get the highest resolution to begin with. I tried the Logic8 on differnt computers....P4, iCORE3/5/7's and it does not matter. Hence I want to try it on a stand alone unit and see what happens. I am still very pleased with the Logic8 and will recommend it. I just would like to check it against something else.
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 06:44 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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MY NEW TOY IS HERE!!!
It's warming up in the lab now. Will do some comparisons and let everyone know what I think(not that anyone cares)
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 06:48 PM |
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Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Posts: 1578
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| New toy day is always a good day! |
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Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 12:20 AM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6061
Location: Long Island New York
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Onr thing I have learned with the LOGIC8 is do not run it, and Studio running debugwire off the dragon at the same time. Especially on a centrino processor laptop(yeah that old!)
My win7 athlon64x2 with 4gbram and a 3.0ghz chip just makes it. so the laptop runs one app, the win7 the other.
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
Timer function not working properly? Check CLKDIV8 Fuse first
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