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atomicdog
PostPosted: Nov 05, 2011 - 08:14 PM
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So... NXP's new ARM USB library is a port of Deans' LUFA. Smile

http://www.lpcware.com/content/project/nxpusblib

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valusoft
PostPosted: Nov 06, 2011 - 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Copyright(C) 2011, NXP Semiconductor
All rights reserved.

LUFA Library
Copyright (C) Dean Camera, 2011.

Looks like it.

Congrats Dean.

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jesper
PostPosted: Nov 06, 2011 - 04:17 PM
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Nice, then perhaps they get something right for a change.

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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 03:21 AM
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Hurrah! I thought it would never be released - pop the champagne and blow up the balloons. This has been under development for a few months now, and it's nice to see it finally being thrown out to the unwashed masses...

- Dean Twisted Evil

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js
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 04:38 AM
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Won't Atmel feel like they need to sue someone?

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 05:53 AM
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Quote:

Won't Atmel feel like they need to sue someone?

On what grounds?
 
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Bingo600
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 06:59 AM
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abcminiuser wrote:
Hurrah! I thought it would never be released - pop the champagne and blow up the balloons. This has been under development for a few months now, and it's nice to see it finally being thrown out to the unwashed masses...

- Dean Twisted Evil


Congrats Dean

Does this mean you're a LPC Guru now ?

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js
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 07:38 AM
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Quote:
On what grounds?
I was under the impression that LUFA was based on Atmel's application notes. I don't know as I have never used it.

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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 11:25 AM
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Quote:

I was under the impression that LUFA was based on Atmel's application notes. I don't know as I have never used it.


No, I wrote and designed it myself.

Quote:

Does this mean you're a LPC Guru now ?


I wasn't involved with coding the actual LPC port - I just gave feedback and support to the NXP team.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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bluegoo
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 02:06 PM
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abcminiuser wrote:
Quote:

I was under the impression that LUFA was based on Atmel's application notes. I don't know as I have never used it.


No, I wrote and designed it myself.

Quote:

Does this mean you're a LPC Guru now ?


I wasn't involved with coding the actual LPC port - I just gave feedback and support to the NXP team.

- Dean Twisted Evil


congrats..always good to cover your bets just in case...
LUFA = Lightweight USB Framework for ARMs ! Rolling Eyes
 
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iwoloschin
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 07:18 PM
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Lightweight USB Framework for Anything?

When can we expect a LUFA port for my toaster?
 
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wek
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 07:22 PM
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iwoloschin wrote:
When can we expect a LUFA port for my toaster?
Is it an 8-bit toaster, or a 32-bit one?
Or, heaven forbid, it's not a 16-bit toaster, is it?

JW
 
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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 07:39 PM
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There will need to be several toaster ports, e.g. for big- and little-endian toasters.
 
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theusch
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 08:18 PM
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"No wonder I'm confused..."

Let me get this straight:

-- Dean created LUFA for AVR8s, and all was well with the world.
-- I >>thought<< there was some Atmel acknowledgement/support that aided Dean. I could be remembering incorrectly.
-- Dean went to an internship at Atmel.
-- Dean is going to work at Atmel.
-- Atmel makes ARMs, including Cortex.
-- The port of LUFA to ARM is done at/by/for NXP. A direct Atmel competitor in the ARM arena.
 
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barnacle
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 08:20 PM
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It was ported for video years ago... http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardw ... HARDID=505

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clawson
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 08:43 PM
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Quote:

-- The port of LUFA to ARM is done at/by/for NXP. A direct Atmel competitor in the ARM arena.

I'm guessing that once Dean signs a contract of employment he'll be forbidden from doing this any more. In fact it may even state that anything he does is owned by Atmel - worth reading the small print!!

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js
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 09:04 PM
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So Dean is likely to share a cell with Julian Assange...at least he will be in good company. Laughing Plenty of geek talk.

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wek
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 09:20 PM
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
There will need to be several toaster ports, e.g. for big- and little-endian toasters.
This is not a problem, Johan. Thankfully, bread tends to be quite uniform in dimensions end-to-end.

There are open questions, though. What is the typical role of the toaster, host or device? Thinking about it, on a busy morning, even a toast on-the-go might come handy... Razz

Jan
 
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iwoloschin
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 09:43 PM
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wek wrote:
JohanEkdahl wrote:
There will need to be several toaster ports, e.g. for big- and little-endian toasters.
This is not a problem, Johan. Thankfully, bread tends to be quite uniform in dimensions end-to-end.

There are open questions, though. What is the typical role of the toaster, host or device? Thinking about it, on a busy morning, even a toast on-the-go might come handy... Razz

Jan


Bread!?!

I was thinking of a LUFA toaster for baking PCBs! Of course...I only found 12 bit toasters...it looks like someone got hungry and took a nibble off one end...
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2011 - 10:25 PM
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Quote:

-- Dean created LUFA for AVR8s, and all was well with the world.
-- I >>thought<< there was some Atmel acknowledgement/support that aided Dean. I could be remembering incorrectly.
-- Dean went to an internship at Atmel.
-- Dean is going to work at Atmel.
-- Atmel makes ARMs, including Cortex.
-- The port of LUFA to ARM is done at/by/for NXP. A direct Atmel competitor in the ARM arena.


Mostly right - Atmel's form of LUFA support is mainly in their donation of VID/PID combinations needed by the demos (and not money). That said, Atmel have always been very supportive in general for my work, including sending me free gear in embarrassing quantities and landing me the internship (and now future job).

Quote:

I'm guessing that once Dean signs a contract of employment he'll be forbidden from doing this any more. In fact it may even state that anything he does is owned by Atmel - worth reading the small print!!


Indeed. I had to get my agreement signed in ink before I could sign the Atmel contract, which I only barely managed to do (much to Atmel's chagrin). I've discussed the situation of my personal projects and I am - allegedly - allowed to continue my autonomy outside of work, as long as I only develop for Atmel chips.

In the case of the NXP work, they are working in parallel with my own work, but I'm being very careful not to write a single line directly for them. How it works now is that I develop LUFA by myself for the Atmel chips, and then NXP pull the trunk at their leisure and continue their own coding efforts on top of it with their own dedicated team.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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svofski
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 09:27 AM
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Quote:
allowed to continue my autonomy outside of work, as long as I only develop for Atmel chips

I don't get it. So if you decide to build an NXP-based pill timer for your grandma and then decide to publish the project, you're busted?

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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 09:43 AM
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Quote:

I don't get it. So if you decide to build an NXP-based pill timer for your grandma and then decide to publish the project, you're busted?


I assume it would be "frowned upon". All I know is that my boss is fine with me working on my own AVR projects and retaining all the rights to them. Frankly I think that only a fool or a man who likes unemployment would parade around competitor's products in his spare time *.

- Dean Twisted Evil

* Speaking as a guy who's TI MSP-430 watch arrived a week ago

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 10:21 AM
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Quote:
I am - allegedly - allowed to continue my autonomy outside of work, as long as I only develop for Atmel chips.

Brilliant! You're forced to continue doing Atmel solutions, but since it is of hours we can expect the usual top-notch Dean-Camera-quality (e.g. as compared to FLIP... N.b.: Not in any way insinuating that Dean would be involved in such a P.O.C., just illustrating...)
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 10:51 AM
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Quote:

Brilliant! You're forced to continue doing Atmel solutions, but since it is of hours we can expect the usual top-notch Dean-Camera-quality


Yes, I pitched it to them as a win-win scenario. Frankly I enjoy my projects so I don't mind at all that Atmel gets a good-will side-benefit out of it. Despite what some people think here, Atmel (or at least the Norwegian arm of it) isn't full of soulless evil trolls.

Quote:

(e.g. as compared to FLIP... N.b.: Not in any way insinuating that Dean would be involved in such a P.O.C., just illustrating...)


Actually, once thing I've learned is that there's no such thing as "professional prototype code" - if it works, it ships regardless of code quality (insert AS5 joke here). I wrote my own C# abomination while I was interning just trying to get a basic framework for some firmware I was also working on, but never had the time to re-write the PC client. I do hope someone else does before trying to push that one out...

- Dean Twisted Evil

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leon_heller
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 10:59 AM
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Some issues with NXP's licensing of LUFA have been raised on my LPC2000 group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000/message/55708

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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 11:21 AM
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I saw that - it's an error on NXP's part. All references to my license should have been removed, and replaced with the NXP boilerplate as per the agreement made (the TL;DR of which is that it is free for use commercially and non-commercially without payment, for NXP silicon only).

- Dean Twisted Evil

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 11:44 AM
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Re FLIP..
Quote:

Actually, once thing I've learned is that there's no such thing as "professional prototype code"

An application with a UI should never crash with the Java stack trace being thrown in the face of the user in a terminal window. How hard can it be to have a catch-all at the top level, telling the user in some controlled way that something went terribly wrong? And perhaps leae the user with an option to communicate details of this crash with the team that perhaps maintains the app?

[EDIT: That should of course start out "An application with a GUI..."]

Re your wording above - are you saying that FLIP is (was?) just a "prototype"? I honestly have not touched it since those crashes (a year ago), so I do not even know if there is a new version of it. Is it still alive at all?


Last edited by JohanEkdahl on Nov 09, 2011 - 12:57 PM; edited 2 times in total
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 11:55 AM
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Quote:

Re your wording above - are you saying that FLIP is (was?) just a "prototype"? I honestly have not touched it since those crashes (a year ago), so I do not even know if there is a new version of it. Is it still alive at all?


Absolutely not - I'm not even sure which team wrote it. I was merely commenting on how cruddy software gets out into the real world from seemingly "good" corporations Wink.

Quote:

An application with a UI should never crash with the Java stack trace being thrown in the face of the user in a terminal window.


Wholeheartedly agree.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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svofski
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:42 PM
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Quote:
I assume it would be "frowned upon".

I may be really stubborn but I really don't understand how the employer can own your free time.

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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:52 PM
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Quote:

I may be really stubborn but I really don't understand how the employer can own your free time.


I used to feel (and in some ways, still do) the same -- but standard contracts now expressly indicate that the company owns the rights royalty free to use anything you create, regardless if it was off the clock or not. I guess it's a safety for them to prevent employees from coming up with a great idea, implementing it out of work and selling it off to competitors and making a billion dollars.

That said, I still think that personally while I'll give 100% while inside the company's doors, the moment I step out each evening I should be able to do whatever the hell I want, and make money if I can. Engineers are rented for 8 hours a day, not bought.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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wek
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 02:04 PM
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Re FLIP..
FLIP was conceived as an application for programming the Temic T89C51RD2, which were '51 variants with UART-based ISP (which in turn were second-source alike of the Philips P89C51RD2, and as Philips's semic division is now NXP, this is where the circle closes... Wink Btw., WinISP, Philips's own application of this purpose was said to be a complete disaster (I never used it) until Philips hired a company to write FlashMagic).

It used to be a quite nice, "normal" Windows application, until some 10 years ago or so Atmel bought Temic and then on one shiny day they decided to rework FLIP into Java.

I've never used it since then... Wink

Jan
 
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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 02:27 PM
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Quote:
I may be really stubborn but I really don't understand how the employer can own your free time.

The idea is that you can not be "illoyal" to your employer, even on your free time. Quite standard these days. There is also often a clause in the hiring contract for full-time jobs stating you may not have a second job (whatever it is) unless the "primary" employer says OK." Also quite standard these days.

I kind of share your somewhat sceptical stance re this - at least to a certain extent.

Speaking of paranoia Wink, I assume you run FireFox with NoScript installed, right? Or are you still letting Google know everything about you - information to be used for some perhaps yet undisclosed purpose (or simply be stolen)?
 
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abcminiuser
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 02:31 PM
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Quote:

Speaking of paranoia Wink, I assume you run FireFox with NoScript installed, right? Or are you still letting Google know everything about you - information to be used for some perhaps yet undisclosed purpose (or simply be stolen)?


NoScript, Adblock, Ghostery, HTTPS Everywhere, Beef Taco, BetterPrivacy, ShareMeNot and Greasemonkey. I'll have my webbrowser store, render and send what I like and what I like only, thank you very much.

- Dean Twisted Evil

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theusch
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 04:11 PM
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Quote:

Indeed. I had to get my agreement signed in ink before I could sign the Atmel contract, which I only barely managed to do (much to Atmel's chagrin). I've discussed the situation of my personal projects and I am - allegedly - allowed to continue my autonomy outside of work, as long as I only develop for Atmel chips.



Quote:

I may be really stubborn but I really don't understand how the employer can own your free time.


Quote:

I used to feel (and in some ways, still do) the same -- but standard contracts now expressly indicate that the company owns the rights royalty free to use anything you create, regardless if it was off the clock or not. I guess it's a safety for them to prevent employees from coming up with a great idea, implementing it out of work and selling it off to competitors and making a billion dollars.

Quote:

The idea is that you can not be "illoyal" to your employer, even on your free time. Quite standard these days. There is also often a clause in the hiring contract for full-time jobs stating you may not have a second job (whatever it is) unless the "primary" employer says OK." Also quite standard these days.

I kind of share your somewhat sceptical stance re this - at least to a certain extent.

Yes, this all is tricky business.

Of >>course<< the employers want to make the "standard" employment agreement in terms that favours them--and them only. It is only in the employer's best interest to do that.

Also, when job seeking the employee may be squeezed--the job is really needed.

In my first two "real" jobs, with large computer companies, the agreement was presented as standard to be signed on the first morning of employment. In both cases it was a group of new hires being processed through the paperwork for payroll, insurance, ... Kind of stuck, right, after relocating some distance to take the position?

After that experience, I learned to ask about this situation pre-employment, and proposed modifications so it would not be as all-inclusive as the "standard" version. Yes, it is a bit scary to negotiate kind of hard pre-employment. But I see no reason for (e.g.) an electronic controls company to have any rights to my gardening produce or Christmas tree plot or woodworking projects or dairy-ration-balancing program.

It is a tough situation. Most times the employer will be reasonable about adding a clarification page outlining the scope of the intellectual property ownership and side business areas. Done gently, it shouldn't hurt.

Related, but not addressed above, is non-compete terms >>after<< leaving the employer. Also examine those to ensure they are not too onerous. Horror story of an acquaintance in a past life: Large company with divisions/factories in several states. Merger(s) and "right sizing" resulted in a division/factory being closed in one state.

Our hero is terminated and goes job hunting in the area and is offered a job at a competitor of the original company. During reference checks and employment history checks, the original company learned what was going on, and used the non-compete clause to prevent our hero from taking the new position--even though the division was closed and the original company had no operations in that state any longer.
 
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svofski
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 05:08 PM
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Scary story about the non-competing clause =/

Re: slavery & submission: well, I have a similar paragraph somewhere in my work agreement too. In theory, the company I work for may express interest in what I'm doing in my spare time and want some rights for whatever I made. Oppressive dog eat dog capitalism and exploitation, but on a second thought a) I do my best to only do useless crap in my spare time, good luck stealing my rights to it and b) this clause only should be invoked if I had abused my position somehow. A serious conflict would be necessary in the first place.

What I would give a damn about though, is if for example I was working in a tea shop and my contract would make it an offense to drink coffee while at home. “AAhh svofski, been drinking coffee again? No salary for you this week!“ Dean's claim about "frowning upon" sounded more like this. It seems abusive, just saying. I have noticed a trend to use fear as a motivational factor lately.

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JohanEkdahl
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 05:43 PM
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Hi, Svo! Long time, no jokes!
Quote:
I do my best to only do useless crap in my spare time

Work on perfecting that and you might be half of a perfect employee... Wink
 
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leon_heller
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 06:36 PM
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Gene, NXP Marketing, has just posted a message to the LPC2000 group stating that they are aware of the licensing problem. They are updating the conditions.

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condemned
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2011 - 07:09 PM
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Re: clauses in contracts...
I've never had a problem having contracts changed. If you're not happy about a clause - talk to them! An unsigned contract is there for negotiation.
 
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Graynomad
PostPosted: Nov 10, 2011 - 01:48 AM
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When I worked for Prime computers (remember them?) I developed a microcontroller development tool on the side. Prime was mainframes of course and my gadget had nothing at all to do with their products.

They gave me a letter waiving any claim and allowing me to market it, which I did.

I think Prime was very non-typical for an American company, when the Aussie-based R&D section was closed down there was about 60 engineers out of work over night, they (I say "they" because I was head hunted about a week before the news broke Smile) were allowed to stay in the facility for weeks both to tie up some projects and to use the printers, word processors, etc for resumes and such.

The time bombs that could have been placed in the software by disgruntled (ex)employees could have been a real problem, but I guess they trusted the guys.

I gather that's not common, a security guard and a cardboard box for your personal gear is more the norm.

______
Rob
 
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valusoft
PostPosted: Nov 10, 2011 - 02:46 AM
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Posts: 7148
Location: Melbourne, Australia

When I was head-hunted by a company in Finland, I negotiated a clause that allowed me to support my existing clients. If they had said no, I probably would have walked. I did eventually (3 years later).

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Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
 
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barnacle
PostPosted: Nov 10, 2011 - 06:49 AM
Raving lunatic


Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 4770
Location: Hemel Hemsptead, UK

I was in the unusual position with the BBC that I was able to negotiate a blanket waiver over any software or computer/microcontroller hardware developments; they belonged to me, not to them.

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Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
 
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nedward
PostPosted: Nov 11, 2011 - 10:54 PM
Hangaround


Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 475
Location: Auckland, NZ

Well done Dean. Well done!
 
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westfw
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2011 - 10:35 AM
Posting Freak


Joined: Jun 19, 2002
Posts: 1315
Location: SF Bay area

Congratulations!
Quote:
I wasn't involved with coding the actual LPC port - I just gave feedback and support to the NXP team.

That's actually very impressive on several levels. Vendors might even be learning to appreciate the value of open source SW...


A lot of things that are in standard employment contracts aren't actually legal, if push comes to shove (YMMV, especially depending on country.) Of course, if everyone obeys the spirit AND the letter of such agreements (legal or not), you don't have to get lawyers involved to decide the fine points...
 
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