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cgorog
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 04:23 PM
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Welcome to all Javan Beta Testers, your test/development kits have been shipped and you should receive them shortly.

In an effort to have an interactive learning experience for both you and the Crypto Products team we would appreciate you post any feedback you have on the "Javan" product or development tools on this thread

Thank you and I look forward to your comments.

Chris
 
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smileymicros
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 06:31 PM
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Chris,

I just got mine and will schedule some block time over the next several days to look at it in detail. I can see why you show an ant carrying the device on your webpage, those things are tiny!

Smiley

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zbaird
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 07:09 PM
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Mine arrived a few minutes ago. Like Smiley, I'll try to have an in depth look at it over the next few days.

I'm always delighted when a technical widget includes a few paragraphs explaining (in the language of the common people, English for me) what it is I'm holding in my hands. I don't know yet what the Javan documentation looks like, so maybe there's something along these lines there - this is a general comment.

However, virtually all the development boards and other hardware tools I come across from almost any manufacturer seem intent on making their customers really earn their understanding. Of course in a beta situation this can be overlooked, but I would hope you would consider including a brief overview of the boards and other components in the future. The USB extender cable I understand (and appreciate).

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DocJC
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 08:47 PM
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Hello Chris,

Mine just arrive!

Thank you very much. I appreciate it and look forward to working with it.

JC
 
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js
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 09:44 PM
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Yep, just keep me waiting just because I'm "up above".

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peret
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 - 11:05 PM
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Mine just arrived. I'll get round to playing with it later this week.

I had no idea you could get ZIF sockets (clips, really) for SOT-23 packages!
 
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DocJC
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 12:38 AM
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Yes!

Full schematics are provided for both the test bed, and the crypto board! (And the LEDs are positive logic!).

Thank you.

JC
 
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arcs_n_sparks
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 01:15 AM
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Chris,

I hope the user experiences here are better then that experienced by the KEEN+ purchasers, ECE Studio, and ACES.
 
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smileymicros
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 02:57 AM
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arcs_n_sparks wrote:
Chris,

I hope the user experiences here are better then that experienced by the KEEN+ purchasers, ECE Studio, and ACES.
Can you elaborate?

I'm very interested but wary of my time and this is a beta. When I label something 'beta' I mean 'expect problems' so I'm not going to get fussy if everything doesn't work as it might. We have a saying: 'Pioneers are those guys with the arrows sticking out their backs' so I'm looking over my shoulders as I ride off into the CryptoLand.

Chris, please don't take any of my comments as negative - I fully realize that this is a beta and you guys are doing a great job under difficult circumstances. I spent a good part of the day trying to thinking more about this along the lines of writing an introductory article and maybe providing a compelling application for folks who are mainly interested in the technology, but don't have a million unit application in mind.

I'm waffling at this point on two possibilities, first that this is a high learning curve concept that a big company (like the battery manufacturer) can afford to train up a few folks, or second, that this contains concepts and potential products that low volume folks (like many of us here) can get their heads around and use.

I'm still undecided.

Okay, I'll ask: can anyone think of an application for these that can be discussed in one or two Nuts&Volts or Circuit Cellar articles that could include the possibility of hands on hardware experimentation?

AND I'm not believing that an alternative to AVR freaks has existed since 2001 and this is the first I've heard of it: http://forum.atmel.com/forumdisplay.php ... order=desc

Smiley

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js
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 03:44 AM
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Quote:
AND I'm not believing that an alternative to AVR freaks has existed since 2001
It doesn't, the other forum is strictly regimented and any Chinese or old Soviet president would be proud of the way things are monitored and approved by the ASS (Atmel Secret Service) before the post is allowed to be seen. (maybe a day or 2)

This is the "land of the free" Smile

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zbaird
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 05:54 AM
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But do their smileys work?


(yeah, yeah, I know - Smileys work for peanuts, especially when they're writing articles)

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js
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 08:10 AM
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Quote:
do their smileys work?
As a matter of fact they don't. 80% don't show up.

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zbaird
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Javan was the fourth son of Noah's son Japheth according to the "Table of Nations" (Genesis chapter 10) in the Hebrew Bible. Flavius Josephus states the traditional view that this individual was the ancestor of the Greek people.

Where's George when you need him?

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arcs_n_sparks
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 12:31 PM
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smileymicros wrote:
arcs_n_sparks wrote:
Chris,

I hope the user experiences here are better then that experienced by the KEEN+ purchasers, ECE Studio, and ACES.
Can you elaborate?


The KEEN+ product is an evaluation board for the CryptoRF line of products. As shipped, KEEN+ came with ECE Studio, a software tool kit. That toolkit was unable to talk to the KEEN+ board, and was no longer supported by Atmel. Subsequently, Atmel released ACES which was to be an improved software product. That product was also unable to talk to the KEEN+ boards that shipped with the CryptoCompanion I.C. installed (apparently, earlier versions of KEEN+ did not have the CryptoCompanion I.C., and that is what the developers worked against)
 
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peret
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 03:41 PM
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I'm trying to collect the documentation this morning and I have a couple of questions.

WTF is the "crypto companion", and where do I find its data sheet?

WTF do I have to fill in that damn registration form afresh every time? Doesn't Atmel use cookies?

(Ok, I'm a little annoyed that one of the time-consuming form fillings, to get the Javan firmware, only led to a HEX DUMP. Where's the source code?)
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 04:40 PM
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cryptocompanion is for use with cryptomemory and cryptorf chips. Apparently has nothing to do with the cryptoauthentication chips.

Smiley, http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8663.pdf has all the applications atmel can think of (or wants to make public Wink )

I'm stuck with mine. No joy with my XP desktop upon which I do NOT want to update any software. Vista 32 with the latest studio talks to the AT90USB1287 with JTAGICE mkII so I could see the fuses and save the as-shipped firmware. FLIP will connect but says it is protected when I try to read the flash. The cryptoauthentication utility takes 60 seconds to launch (!!) and displays the message "No SA102S device detected". I've replaced both host and client chips with no effect.
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 06:18 PM
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Quote:
(Ok, I'm a little annoyed that one of the time-consuming form fillings, to get the Javan firmware, only led to a HEX DUMP. Where's the source code?)


We will be offering source libraries for firmware projects that work on this board, but the image which communicates to the Utility application will not be released in source form. (Sorry). The only thing it offers that is different then from the libraries is the USB marshaling code.

Quote:
CryptoCompanion is for use with cryptomemory and cryptorf chips. Apparently has nothing to do with the cryptoauthentication chips.


This statement is correct the CryptoCompanion is designed to work with CryptoMemory.

CryptoAuthentication has its own host side device the AT88SA10HS; some of these were included in the Javan kit.
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2009 - 06:25 PM
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Quote:
I'm always delighted when a technical widget includes a few paragraphs explaining (in the language of the common people, English for me) what it is I'm holding in my hands. I don't know yet what the Javan documentation looks like, so maybe there's something along these lines there - this is a general comment.


To minimize cost on our kits for small volume developers we are trying a new approach to the kits. The kits are shipped in plain anti-static bags with a URL only. All documentation can be found at the URL on the board. www.atmel.com/javan

P.S. you would not believe how much cost is added with packaging and printed material to ship with kits.

Chris
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2009 - 03:12 PM
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dak664 wrote:
Vista 32 with the latest studio talks to the AT90USB1287 with JTAGICE mkII so I could see the fuses and save the as-shipped firmware. FLIP will connect but says it is protected when I try to read the flash. The cryptoauthentication utility takes 60 seconds to launch (!!) and displays the message "No SA102S device detected". I've replaced both host and client chips with no effect.


OK, after a reboot the CA utility launches quickly and works. The loaded drivers are:
Code:
HID-compliant device 6/21/2006 6.0.6001.18000 Microsoft
HID\VID_03EB&PID_2312&REV_1000
HID_DEVICE_UP:FFFF_U:0001
HID_DEVICE
USB Human Interface Device 6/21/2006 6.0.6001.18000 Microsoft

An encryption/decryption cycle on this file gives
Code:
HID-compliant device 6/21/2006 6.0.6001.18000 Microsoft
HID\VID_03EB&PID_2312&REV_1000
HID_DEVICE_UP:FFFF_U:0001
HID_DEVICE
U
[followed by 64 nulls]

An encryption/decryption cycle on a .jpg image also ends in 64 nulls which corrupt the last three macroblocks.

This is with the as-shipped firmware. The current firmware hex file available for download does not contain the bootloader so presumably should be loaded using FLIP. Flip still says "Device protection is set", and suggests to "Reset before loading". It won't get past this since the software reset puts it in non-flip mode, even when holding down the HWB button. I have to admit not knowing much about FLIP.
 
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peret
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2009 - 03:40 PM
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Quote:
This is with the as-shipped firmware. The current firmware hex file available for download does not contain the bootloader so presumably should be loaded using FLIP. Flip still says "Device protection is set", and suggests to "Reset before loading". It won't get past this since the software reset puts it in non-flip mode, even when holding down the HWB button. I have to admit not knowing much about FLIP.

This topic came up elsewhere recently, in connection with AT890USB1287 devices. They are shipped with the boot loader installed and the lock bits set, and if you erase to clear the lock bits, you lose the boot loader.

The boot loader hex file is available on Atmel's site, though you have to search for it. You can get it back in by JTAG programming, either on its own or by appending the hex to the end of your code (delete the :01000000FF line from your code first). After that, the HWB button works again and FLIP is quite a convenient tool, saves a lot of plugging and unplugging.
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2009 - 05:26 PM
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peret wrote:

This topic came up elsewhere recently, in connection with AT890USB1287 devices. They are shipped with the boot loader installed and the lock bits set, and if you erase to clear the lock bits, you lose the boot loader.

I have access to it from JTAG and here is the configuration:
Code:
JAVAN firmware as received:
Fuses:
BOD at Vcc=2.6 V
HWBE
SPIEN
BOOTSZ=4096 start $F000
Ext. Crystal Osc 8.0- MHz Startup 258 CK+65 ms

Extended 0xF3 High 0x99 Low 0xDE

Lockbits 0xFF (no locks)
OSCAL 0x9F
VTarget=4.9 Volts

JTAG-ICE mk2 HW Info Rev 0x01 Firmware 0606 0606

So no lockbits are set. Flip should work? What is this "reset" it refers to?
 
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peret
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2009 - 08:36 PM
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Ah, well you cleared the lock bits already, otherwise you couldn't use JTAG, and that presumably wasted the boot loader at the same time. FLIP won't work unless you reprogram the boot loader. The "reset" in FLIP just drops out of the boot loader and starts execution at 0x0000.
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2009 - 09:48 PM
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I didn't intentionally erase anything, and the .hex file I saved from flash has code starting at 0x1E000 which I take to be $F000 in word addressing.

The bootloader must be running since FLIP gets the signature bytes. But it obstinately says "Device protection is set" in red letters at the bottom, and won't let me read or write flash or eeprom. It's FLIP 3.3.4. Here's the start and end of the bootloader flash:
Code:
:10E000000C94B3F6FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFD3
:10E01000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF10
:10E02000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0C94BBF5FFFFFFFFAC
:10E03000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0
:10E04000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE0
:10E05000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFD0
:10E06000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFC0
:10E07000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFB0
:10E08000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF00007CF62A
:10E0900008006BF66EF670F672F674F676F678F6A1
:10E0A0007AF6A7010001000000FF12BD01BDF89A39
:10E0B00000B5089501E00895F999FECF12BD01BDA4
:10E0C00020BDFA9AF99AF6CFF999FECF0C9455F043
:10E0D000F8012BBF069108952297F8012BBF4691B6
:10E0E0004983319606910883142F22960895A895A6
:10E0F00007EF04BFE0E6F0E0008108610083F083F1
...
:10F1600003010902120001010080320904000000BD
:10F17000000000000C03410054004D0045004C000D
:10F180001E03410054003900300055005300420076
:10F1900031003200380020004400460055000C03C6
:10F1A00031002E0030002E00300004030904FFFF60
:10F1B000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF5F
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Nov 01, 2009 - 04:27 PM
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I like the set-only fuses and can see how they would be useful to indicate abuse in the field, e.g. overvoltaging or undervoltaging a cell in a battery pack. But they are not so useful for recording number of uses. Setting a fuse after a prescale in EEPROM has an obvious defeat method. How about a 16 bit increment-only counter in a future version?
 
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zbaird
PostPosted: Nov 03, 2009 - 11:55 PM
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Things are starting to make more sense as I read through the various documentation, but I'm still pining for Smiley's Dummies article. One thing I would mention is the inconsistency of the product names in the pdf files - sometimes it's AT88SA###, sometimes it's ATSA88###, and sometimes it's ATSA###. Not too hard to figure out, but something you might want to fix.

It's nice how the daughter board plugs onto an STK500. Overall the big picture is still elusive, but maybe in a few days, and a little more reading...

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cgorog
PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 05:48 PM
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Quote:
One thing I would mention is the inconsistency of the product names in the pdf files - sometimes it's AT88SA###, sometimes it's ATSA88###, and sometimes it's ATSA###. Not too hard to figure out, but something you might want to fix.


Thanks for pointing this out I will look into the inconsistency

Quote:
I'm still pining for Smiley's Dummies article


I am not sure if this is exactly the "Dummies article" your are looking for but here are some published documents that may help.

Use Cases for Authentication:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8663.pdf

High Level Security of CryptoAuthentication (a bit more technical):
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8666.pdf

CryptoAuthentication Technical tutoral:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/CryptoAuthenticationTechnicalTraining.pdf

Protecting Firmware IP:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/CryptoAuthentication_FirmwareProtection.pdf

Chris
 
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zbaird
PostPosted: Nov 05, 2009 - 07:34 PM
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Thanks for the URLs, Chris. I had actually already found, printed, and read those, plus 5 or 6 others. Lots of details about trees, but I'm still missing the overall forest view. It's coming - it's just a matter of keeping focused, drawing myself some pictures, and not getting interrupted with the thousand other things wanting my attention.

Smiley's soon-to-be-famous article is mentioned on page 1 of this thread, where he wonders whether it's worth his time and effort to write an introductory article for Circuit Cellar or Nuts and Volts. I hope he does.

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Plons
PostPosted: Nov 08, 2009 - 10:47 PM
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Got my package 2 days ago. Thanks for that Chris/Atmel.
I will take the dive this week I guess. Lots of reading to do. And not being a C-guy, my ride may be a rough one Smile

To all:
If you need to post large files, like Smiley hopefully will .... given she finds the time, there is a gmail-group for this.
Drop me a PM if you wish to join.
And to the members of that group: if you post something important, and want all members to notice, click the "Share"-button in the upper right corner of the gmail-doc, drop down menu, click "Send a message to collaborators ... "

Nard

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js
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2009 - 05:52 AM
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Hyppee just got mine too. Smile Thank you very much.

Now off to buy a few spare neurons to try and get my brain around things.

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valusoft
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2009 - 06:20 AM
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Ahha ... mine arrived this afternoon also. Thanks Chris.

Now to find a clear space on the workbench and some time ...

Cheers,

Ross

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js
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2009 - 08:08 AM
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Ok enough for the day. Smile I got FLIP to talk to the chip, downloaded all necessary info and code that I can think of.

Got CryptoAuth Utilities to see the kit.

I know that one needs a AT88SA10HS for a host and either a AT88SA100S or a AT88SA102S on the "other side" (client).

Have not messed around with JTAG yet but may have some time tomorrow and try the Dragon's new found power with the USB1287 chip. So far it has worked well if, very sluggishly (try and say that sober) with the Xmega.

Never seen sot23 ZIF sockets in my life.

edit and what's the story with FLIP saying that the "Device protection is set"?

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Bingo600
PostPosted: Nov 10, 2009 - 06:11 PM
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@js

Are you using the new Studio "Beta" that gives Dragon Xmega support ?

I'm still on Studio 4.13 , on my main XP machine.

I was scared a bit by the "666 - beast version"

Do i need to upgrade to something newer ?

Btw; Is there anywhere else i "Officialy" can get the Atmel SW , i'm getting a bit tired of registering for the 118' time.
Wonder when they make a "login system" Wink Wink

Hope FedEX pays me a visit tomorrow (Thanx Chris/Atmel) Smile

Edit: Yes FedEX was here Cool Cool

/Bingo


Last edited by Bingo600 on Nov 11, 2009 - 08:59 PM; edited 1 time in total
 
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js
PostPosted: Nov 10, 2009 - 08:27 PM
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Yep, Studio 4.18 (beta 4 now) support the Xmega with the Dragon. http://www.atmel.no/beta_ware/

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timgoh0
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2009 - 03:19 PM
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Just got my javan kit. I don't have a Windows box at home, so I can't run the demo app. Also, is there no documentation on the comms protocol that the demo firmware uses?

I'm implementing a quick test application with the LUFA libraries, enough to implement the desired 1 wire interface. Let's see how far we get this weekend.
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Nov 17, 2009 - 02:33 PM
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Hi everyone,

We posted a new version of the CryptoAuthentication Utility and firmware for the Utility on our website. Please upgrade to this version as the last had some “features” that have been upgraded.

Link: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools ... ily_id=699

P.S. we will have Firmware libraries posted in the next few days. I will put up another post when these are up.

Chris
 
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dak664
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2009 - 08:17 PM
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Although the 11/09 download is called "version 3" the properties tag shows version 1.0.0.2

Most of the pictures in the CAU_help.pdf have a "SA100" tab, but some don't. I don't get that tab on Vista. A possibly related problem, the software SHA-256 can't duplicate the example in the AT88SA100S.pdf data sheet because specifying SA100S doesn't use opcode 01 in the challenge string. That seems stuck at opcode 08 for the SA102S (consequently the SA102S.pdf example does work).

Keyboard shortcuts for cut and paste would speed up key testing.
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Dec 08, 2009 - 10:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 01, 2009
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Quote:
Most of the pictures in the CAU_help.pdf have a "SA100" tab

The CryptoAuthentication Utility was developed with a tab to support the SA100S device. The current version did not have SA100S support complete so the SA100S tab was disabled for the release. We hope to have this support (and the tab) restored to the Utility in later versions.

Quote:
SHA-256 can't duplicate the example in the AT88SA100S.pdf data sheet because specifying SA100S doesn't use opcode 01 in the challenge string. That seems stuck at opcode 08 for the SA102S (consequently the SA102S.pdf example does work).

This is also a known issue; we are working diligently to incorporate 100% support for the SA100S for the calculation tab as well as” hardware setup” and “hardware operations” tabs.

Thank you for your comments; I will keep you posted on updates.

Chris
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Dec 11, 2009 - 04:29 PM
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All,

We have posted “CryptoAuthentication Firmware Library Version 1.0.5a” this package is the entire embedded source code content for the libraries to communicate with the CryptoAuthentication device.

There are two versions of code in the download, a bit-banged version designed to work on the AT88CK109STK kit and a template version with the physical layer stubbed out. The template version can be used with any development environment as long as the physical layer is implemented for that platform.

Download “CryptoAuthentication Firmware Library Version 1.0.5a” from the following link, extract all files, and open the Redme.htm file to begin.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools.asp?family_id=699

Good luck and once again please post any comments you have.

Chris
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Dec 11, 2009 - 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Although the 11/09 download is called "version 3" the properties tag shows version 1.0.0.2


Sorry I missed this question: this version number is the version number related to the library used in the CryptoAuthentication Uility firmware binary.

The binary for the CAU matches version 3 of the CAU and thus is labeld version 3. However the version of the library used in the binary is 1.0.0.2.

The current library version is 1.0.5a which I posted a link to in my last comment.

Chris
 
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cgorog
PostPosted: Feb 01, 2010 - 11:36 PM
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Hello All,

Its been a while since I posted, Any comments on the AT88CK109STK3 kits.

Chris
 
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