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 Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 12:23 PM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 5951
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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OK, I win. First "cab off the rank" ...
http://www.atmel.com/products/securemem/default.asp
I have an alternative foolproof way of preventing my code being stolen. I make sure it is so bad that no one would ever want to steal it. What is your method?
Cheers,
Ross |
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Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 12:50 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62354
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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The great unsolved mystery here is after all the important technologies that a new forum could have been created specially for (Wireless AVR, USB AVR, Xmega?) why on earth has a whole forum been created for such a niche product? Can anyone ever remember seeing any previous thread about Atmel's cryptic(sic) memories?
What next? A forum about FPSLIC? Or battery controllers or... ?
Cliff |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 01:50 PM |
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 6326
Location: Hilversum - the Netherlands
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We have a saying here in the Netherlands:
Quote:
God's plans are inscrutable
I think the same applies to the Almighty of this Forum.
I hope see "the Light" one day ....
Nard |
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Dragon broken ? Or problems with the Parallel Port Programmer ? Scroll down on my projects-page http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/TechStuff.html for tips
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 05:24 PM |
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Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 3809
Location: Denmark
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I was under the impression that the "Crypto" AVR's were secret unless you signed a NDA agreement.
But this might not be the AVR's , just memory ??
/Bingo |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 05:57 PM |
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Joined: Jan 31, 2008
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 06:08 PM |
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Joined: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 12055
Location: Tangent, OR, USA
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This page:
http://www.atmel.com/products/securemem/default.asp
says, at the top,
Quote:
CryptoMemory® – The world's first and only family of EEPROMs with a 64-bit embedded hardware encryption engine, four sets of non-readable, 64-bit authentication keys and four sets of non-readable, 64-bit session encryption keys provide the only low-cost, truly secure means of preventing product counterfeiting and/or piracy.
Three of the referenced data sheets have this note:
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This self-extracting EXE file includes a click-through limited license agreement (LLA).
Personally, I think it would be more useful to have a forum on the unique features of XMega that regular Mega users don't deal with. Stuff like DMA, fast ADC, DAC, clock multiplication, register banking, and such.
Jim |
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Jim Wagner
Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div.
Tangent, OR, USA
"The only thing standing between us and victory is defeat" P.G.Wodhouse in Wooster & Jeeves series
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 08:04 PM |
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Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 19
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| Welcome to everyone, I can see that most of you have been around AVRFreaks a lot longer then me. I represent the “Crypto Products Group” for which this forum was created, we actually have several families of products including CryptoMemory, CryptoCompanion, CryptoController, and our latest family CryptoAuthentication. I apologize for the name of the Forum seeming to be focused on one product (it was not my first choice) we are trying to get it changed to something more representative of our group. I will try to comment on some of your postings but be patient as I am still relatively new to the Site. |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 08:12 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62354
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 09:24 PM |
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Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 19
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lawson
I would not call Crypto Products a niche group; If you have not heard of our products then we may be just the best kept secret in Atmel.
Often when you think of security you think of an implementation using a microprocessor. Atmel “Crypto Products Group” produces low cost slave devices that work in conjunction with the microprocessor system to provide many security implementations.
If you need a method to store and/or generate new keys for rolling encryption to protect confidential file protection, or to transmit encrypted media.
Our products come in handy if you need an inexpensive slave device to use in, USB security dongles, access device for physical access control, or electronic locker keys.
When you want a way to verify a device across a network, Wireless link, or Power grid (data over power lines)
Authenticating cartridges or consumables that you want to ensure revenue on, or protect corporate reputation and service cost by preventing use of clones in your system.
If you are looking for a low cost solution to use along side an unsecured micro protect firmware IP from being copied and used in cloned device, or proprietary content from leaking to competition.
If knock off batteries are catching fire in your systems and damaging your reputation, Crypto Products can be used to authenticate batteries.
Authentication devices can be used to Verify software downloads prior to use or encrypt them for use in your system only.
Verify that you daughter cards, development boards, attachments devices, or accessories are authorized for use.
Store Keys, confidential information, monetary transactions/balances, or proprietary information, in user carried cards, fobs, etc.
As you can see there are many reasons that people and companies come to us for our Crypto device. Let me know how I can help you understand our products better.
Chris |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 09:25 PM |
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Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 19
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dbvanhorn:
The executable you are downloading is an installer package for the documents and software you requested. The click through LLA is a disclaimer verifying that the users have read and acknowledged our use policies.
Chris |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2009 - 10:49 PM |
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 1249
Location: Champaign, IL USA
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| No offense, but there are MANY more Freaks interested in the xMega than the crypto devices. An xMega forum would be very active if it were created. You can give that message to the Powers That Be! This will probably be the last time I visit this particular forum. |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 08:06 AM |
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Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 4404
Location: Slovakia, Bratislava
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| I never really got the whole point of "sign an NDA before seeing our datasheet for a product" - heck, if I were a manufacturer and I was making a product I'd try to advertise the product as much as possible, make the datasheet as available as much as possible. Not "psssst... there's a device you might like, but first sign this.". This is not the only product like this, which is really weird. |
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There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 08:33 AM |
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 9832
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
I never really got the whole point of "sign an NDA before seeing our datasheet for a product" - heck, if I were a manufacturer and I was making a product I'd try to advertise the product as much as possible, make the datasheet as available as much as possible. Not "psssst... there's a device you might like, but first sign this.". This is not the only product like this, which is really weird.
Actually, I'd be more inclined to use a security product that had freely available datasheets, if I ever needed them. Security through obscurity is never a good defence, and if the chips were worth anything it wouldn't matter who got to see the datasheets. Similar to how the algorithms to the most secure encryption schemes (Blowfish, etc.) are freely available, yet data encrypted using them still remains so unless the attacker brute forces the password.
Nth'ing the notion to have an XMega forum instead of forum for an only tangentially related product.
- Dean  |
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Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 09:10 AM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62354
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
If you have not heard of our products then we may be just the best kept secret in Atmel.
 - very good!
(at least the change of forum name makes it a little less "niche" now  ) |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 09:57 AM |
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Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20390
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
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| Please send me details on how to crack secure devices. This is VERY URGENT for me as I want to retire early. |
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John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 12:39 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6854
Location: Cleveland, OH
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WELL....
As the XMega includes an AES/DES engine, perhaps we could Hi-Jack the entire forum and turn it into an XMEga forum.
JC |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 04:47 PM |
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Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Atmel Colorado Springs
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Our chips are based on NSA algorithms such as SHA-256 or AES. If you'd like to crack the algorithm, NSA will contribute to your retirement happily.
Of more interest, though, to the AVR community is the fact that these peripherals solve a specific set of problems and make solutions to those problems possible. |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 05:32 PM |
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Security algorithms only make up a single layer in a security onion. Other layers are stuff like keys, tampers, randomness, etc. A quick search over the internet will reveal that most of the notable algorithms like DES, RSA, SHA-1 etc. all have published weaknesses, but there exist well designed products using these very algorithms that continue to remain secure. Knowing how to build fortresses from sometimes sub par algorithms takes research, money, knowledge, experience etc., and why hand it over so easily to copycats? After all, if the true intentions are legit, why shy away from signing an NDA? It's not really obscurity if signing NDA grants access to all the info, is it?
abcminiuser wrote:
Quote:
I never really got the whole point of "sign an NDA before seeing our datasheet for a product" - heck, if I were a manufacturer and I was making a product I'd try to advertise the product as much as possible, make the datasheet as available as much as possible. Not "psssst... there's a device you might like, but first sign this.". This is not the only product like this, which is really weird.
Actually, I'd be more inclined to use a security product that had freely available datasheets, if I ever needed them. Security through obscurity is never a good defence, and if the chips were worth anything it wouldn't matter who got to see the datasheets. Similar to how the algorithms to the most secure encryption schemes (Blowfish, etc.) are freely available, yet data encrypted using them still remains so unless the attacker brute forces the password.
Nth'ing the notion to have an XMega forum instead of forum for an only tangentially related product.
- Dean
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 06:11 PM |
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Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 4404
Location: Slovakia, Bratislava
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| Yes, I'm fairly certain that somewhere in China, right now there's a chip copycat sobbing into his pillow, due to the fact that he's not allowed by the datasheet to copy the chip, and his friends are sobbing even more, due to the fact that they can't even read the datasheet, cause they won't agree to the NDA. |
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There are pointy haired bald people.
Time flies when you have a bad prescaler selected.
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 06:19 PM |
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Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: Great Smokey Mountains.
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eustace wrote:
After all, if the true intentions are legit, why shy away from signing an NDA? It's not really obscurity if signing NDA grants access to all the info, is it?
But I find this the most troubling statement of all. It implies that folks at Atmel really believe that only honest folks can get an NDA with them. This is foolish beyond belief. It blocks legitimate folks who want to have a peak without the hassle of doing an NDA, but allows any crooked SOB who is willing to take the time to fake an NDA to have full access. The truly disturbing thing is that if the security folks at Atmel can't see this, then how on God's Green Earth could they be trusted to come up with a truly secure technology?
Smiley |
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FREE TUTORIAL: 'Quick Start Guide for Using the WinAVR C Compiler with ATMEL's AVR Butterfly' AVAILABLE AT: http://www.smileymicros.com
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 07:42 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18585
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
if the security folks at Atmel can't see this, then how on God's Green Earth could they be trusted to come up with a truly secure technology?
You know why, Joe. Because the people designing the chips are hopefully well trained and experienced chip designers, with deep knowledge about secure chip implementations, but the people designing the NDA scheme are the same (or similar) brain-deads that requires the data sheets to have "copy protection". |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 09:21 PM |
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Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Atmel Colorado Springs
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| The LLA isn't an NDA. It's just recognition that the material is licensed with a pretty standard open-source license. We actually do look at people who request NDA's and a director has to sign the thing. |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 09:28 PM |
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Joined: Nov 29, 2007
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eustace wrote:
After all, if the true intentions are legit, why shy away from signing an NDA? It's not really obscurity if signing NDA grants access to all the info, is it?
I have signed a lot of NDAs and licenses when I was younger. Now, older and wiser I avoid them like the plague.
It's for two simple reason.
1) I certainly can't remember all the details of the junk I have signed. I don't want to reread a bunch of NDAs and licenses every few month, to check if they have expired and to refresh my memory about what I am still not allowed to talk or write about. I don't want to have to run every word through a mental filter in my brain whenever I talk shop about an IC with people.
2) NDAs and licenses are written by lawyers, and it takes lawyers to understand all implications. Are you going to pay my lawyer to explain your stuff to me? You want to sell that stuff to me, why should I pay for the privilege to buy from you?
Sure, you can market your stuff in whatever way you like. Your Xmega and AVR colleagues don't talk to us, while you have chose to annoy as with an NDA, license or whatever. Fine, these are Atmel's decisions.
But signing that stuff or agreeing to ti is not a yardstick for measuring if my intentions are legit. In fact, I am appealed that you imply that people detesting that stuff have illegal intentions. |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 09:45 PM |
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Joined: Nov 29, 2007
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MaxMay wrote:
Our chips are based on NSA algorithms such as SHA-256 or AES. If you'd like to crack the algorithm, NSA will contribute to your retirement happily.
SHA-256 is standardized in FIPS-180. You can download that standard from NIST free of charge. And probably from hundreds of other US government servers.
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/ ... s180-2.pdf
AES is standardized in FIPS-197. Again, you can also download that standard from NIST, free of charge. In fact, AES was even designed in public, under the guidance of NIST in a kind of contest.
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/ ... ps-197.pdf
Come back with your NSA line once the NSA has raided NIST and shipped all of NIST to Guantanamo with a special retirement package. |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2009 - 11:42 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6854
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Hi cgorog,
By the way, Congrats on the new chip line. I don't know how big this "niche" market is, but it must be sizable, or it would not have justified the time, effort, and resources to make it a reality.
If it strengthens Atmel's position in the world market that is a good think.
I don't forsee having a immediate need for this new capability myself, but it is nice to know it exists, and if I need it, I will not (overly) mind signing an NDA / LLA. That is just part of the cost of doing business these days.
I think the NDA/LLA struck a nerve with several people, as noted above.
I think it also struck the nerve of several others, myself included, that numerous Freaks have suggested a sub-forum for the Xmega, for which this group sees a true need, and significant potential benefit, only to be shot down by those with the ability to make it happen. Then, out of the blue, a new sub-forum pops up, which is likely to represent a very small fraction of the topics and threads on the forum.
It would truely be nice if the powers that be would at least reconsider an XMega sub-forum, having now demonstrated the "ease" with which a new one can be created.
Thank you to the forum guru's, by the way, for fixing the Avitar bug. It is a small thing, but it keeps people happy.
Surf around the forum a bit and you will find plenty of threads with somewhat, or outright, hostility, but also plenty more to keep things in balance.
Welcome to the forum.
JC |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 07:10 AM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6707
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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Not to beat a dead horse, and with no disrespect to the cryptomaniacs, but it really is pathetic that this forum gets precedence over an XMega one. You guys must have some powerful political pull -- got all the Atmel family secrets locked away in your various chips? Dating the boss's daughter?
Well, OK, it is beating a dead horse. But still... |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 04:33 PM |
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Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Atmel Colorado Springs
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| I've emailed the head of marketing for AVR and suggested an XMega forum. It's a different BU, so it's up to them, but it's a reasonable suggestion. |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 04:42 PM |
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Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Atmel Colorado Springs
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Imagine a medical device that uses disposable attachments such as surgical instruments do. Imagine that a Chinese firm markets cheaper knock-offs of the attachment that bear the same markings as the original.
Our stuff for about a quarter can insure it's the real thing.
That's the market, or at least one of them.
It's a very high probability that most of you have our products in your lives, and a certainty that you have either ours or a competitors in your lives. |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 04:55 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62354
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
It's a very high probability that most of you have our products in your lives,
That's SO true - I just converted the spare bedroom into an operating theatre
Sorry to be facetious - I do understand your point - honest. But what you describe sounds an awful lot like yet another facet of Digital Rights Management and I think all of us have probably been bitten by that and simply annoyed by overly zealous "access management" systems in every day life.
OTOH I guess that as professional engineers there are times when we'd all like to protect our IPR. We've done it on our own products but we tend to just come up with proprietary ideas just to put off the Saturday afternoon "hacker". If a commercial (Far Eastern?) enterprise is intent on breaking a design it's a pretty fair bet they are going to succeed whatever you do. In fact I've worked for one of the companies in Europe with possibly the tightest content control system there is (Videocrypt from NDS used by BSkyB satellite TV systems) and yet even that has been subject to attack. |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 06:12 PM |
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[/quote]But I find this the most troubling statement of all. It implies that folks at Atmel really believe that only honest folks can get an NDA with them.
First, lets clear up a common misconception. Good security does not rely on any document, whether under NDA or not, to remain secure. The techniques to arrive such security is value worth protecting.
Now, as counter intuitive as this may sound, NDA does not prevent information dissemination. All it does is introduce accountability. Anyone with a controlled NDA document issued them will have to think twice before laying it around carelessly, after all, they are answerable if that document falls in the wrong hands. They don't have to be honest but I'm guessing they like the rest of us humans have an opinion about talking to lawyers 
eustace |
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Posted: Aug 14, 2009 - 06:49 PM |
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Hello ArnoldB,
We probably both share the same strong emotions towards lawyers. Heck they speak a 'higher' level of language in any culture, clearly beyond my comprehension.
The probable truth is nobody wants to sign NDA unless they have to, and when they do, it's because they see value in doing so - better value than available alternatives. I hope you see how when truly in this position the NDA becomes a stepping stone to a solution.
Now, the good news is that only a small fraction of security products require NDA, and even so, usually on specific and pertinent details like "what is your secret sauce?". Case in point are the families of Crypto Products this forum category is addressing.
I have to say it is a little unfair to security products because the taste is never enough as prove of the pudding - you always have to show more to prove your claims are legit. For everything else, it's enough just seeing the product work - no additional questions asked. How often do product owners in other fields have to disclose the secret algorithm (IP) behind a working product? Who in the consumer crowd asks or even cares?
In other to continue researching and providing such unique value, the crypto guys have to do what it takes to keep the efforts going. There is always room for better suggestions.
eustace |
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Posted: Aug 16, 2009 - 05:32 AM |
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Joined: Jun 18, 2001
Posts: 1085
Location: Brisbane Queensland Australia
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Maybe the reason why the ATtiny10 or lower numbers that has just been release recently.
There is something hidden (some layers of crypto) in there we know nothing about.
That is why is secret. |
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Posted: Aug 16, 2009 - 06:14 AM |
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 7429
Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea (UK)
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Where does all this rubbish about an NDA come from? The LLA (Limited Liability Agreement) that they require is completely different from an NDA!
Leon |
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Leon Heller
G1HSM
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Posted: Aug 16, 2009 - 02:06 PM |
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Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 415
Location: Singapore
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| LLA or NDA, in any case, I appear to be excluded, unless I download that file in a VM and run it. How hard would it be to have some kind of web-based acceptance form before downloading the datasheet, sort of like how avrstudio is painfully obtainable. |
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Posted: Aug 16, 2009 - 02:08 PM |
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Quote:
sort of like how avrstudio is painfully obtainable.
Speaking of which, I'm running out of Flintstones characters to put into the form when I need to download each new version. Anyone have any other suggestions for interesting characters I can register?
- Dean |
_________________
Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Aug 16, 2009 - 02:15 PM |
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Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Posts: 415
Location: Singapore
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abcminiuser wrote:
Anyone have any other suggestions for interesting characters I can register?
What about permutations of first-last name pairs? |
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 10:58 PM |
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Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 19
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Uncase you did not see the posting on the other thread.
Thank you to all that have chimed in on the concerns over the perceived NDA and LLA requirements on some of the Crypto products. Atmel has revisited these requirements and is in the process of clarifying those requirements and updating the affected product pages on the web site. For the products in question, LLA's will only apply to the crypto libraries. No NDAs will be required for these products released public datasheets.
One additional note: Our CryptoAuthentication family of devices uses a standard SHA-256 Algorithm and does not require an NDA or LLA for use of all documentation including source.
Chris |
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 11:40 PM |
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Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Posts: 1762
Location: North Carolina USA
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| Personally I like to use Harcourt Fenton Mudd, the Star Trek con artist. Lots of other obscure name potential there. |
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Posted: Aug 20, 2009 - 11:42 PM |
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Joined: Mar 28, 2001
Posts: 20390
Location: Sydney, Australia (Gum trees, Koalas and Kangaroos, No Edelweiss)
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| HEH, I use my real name...what can possibly happen?...what can possibly happen?...what can possibly happen?...what can possibly happen?...what can possibly happen? |
_________________
John Samperi
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
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Posted: Aug 21, 2009 - 12:06 AM |
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 6707
Location: Bellingham, WA - USA
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Quote:
I use my real name...
Crypto Roo? |
_________________
Chuck Baird
"It's better to catch the trapeze than test the safety net" -- RPi book
http://www.cbaird.org
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Posted: Aug 23, 2009 - 10:52 AM |
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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Windsor, UK
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It's a bit bizare to see the website taken over as some sort of dumping ground. the name is avrfreaks not atmelfreaks -- why not create a different forum website altogether and have support groups for all the other lines ?
Or what about hijacking at91.com, surely they are dying to know about cryptothingies :> |
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Author of simavr - Follow me on twitter : @buserror
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Posted: Aug 23, 2009 - 03:33 PM |
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Joined: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 100
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Man, what a tough crowd. I'm not surprised in the least that the xMega, RF, or Qtouch, guys don't want to be seen here.
One day you may need some help, guidance, or communication from these folks. If you do, (for your sake) I hope they show you more respect than you have just shown them. |
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Posted: Aug 25, 2009 - 12:48 PM |
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Joined: Mar 15, 2007
Posts: 214
Location: India
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Brenton_S15 wrote:
Man, what a tough crowd. I'm not surprised in the least that the xMega, RF, or Qtouch, guys don't want to be seen here.
One day you may need some help, guidance, or communication from these folks. If you do, (for your sake) I hope they show you more respect than you have just shown them.
The folks here are not so tough ..... they are the best people in industry that offer support/suggestions and guidence to all the people who are stuck with problems however small or big
The comments recieved are just positive criticsism of what they would like to see back at all our favourite site avrfreaks
I sure hope we have a new xmega forum |
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change without any change is no change
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Posted: Aug 25, 2009 - 05:23 PM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6854
Location: Cleveland, OH
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I'm with Brenton on this one.
It is Atmel's web site and they can modify it as they so desire.
There are now 14 Topics Sections, plus the tutorials, etc.
If someone has no interest in Crypto, fine. Ignore that section. Having a central site for the different technologies has merit, and permits for easy overlap by those individuals who do have an interest in the differing technologies.
I, and numerous others, have all asked for/suggested/recommeded/proposed/and supported an XMega Section.
The creation of a Crypto Section does not preclude the creation of an XMega Section.
The first Crypto threads clearly weigh in heavily on the advertising / baiting scale, but the Moderators have to seed the Section somehow.
It is a dynamic world, change is inevitable. Accept it and move forward!
Hostility aimed at a Section which in no significant way detracts from the "core" of the site is, IMHO, inappropriate, counter-productive, and uncalled for.
An upbeat, constructive forum is much more likely to gain further resources and support from the sponsor, Atmel!
JC |
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Posted: Aug 25, 2009 - 09:35 PM |
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Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Atmel Colorado Springs
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Two points:
Those of us at Crypto don't run AVR freaks - we just run our little section. We can and have recommended changes based on feedback from this forum, and we know who to ping, but the results are the results.
The purpose for us for this forum isn't to be a general catch-all. We have other venues that support everyone else's MCUs. This is about Crypto Products as peripherals to AVR's, the challenges, technical problems, work-arounds, etc.
We do a lot of internal work with AVR's and SAM series ARMs, and it makes sense to open a dialog for those who are interested. |
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Posted: Aug 30, 2009 - 09:08 AM |
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 2538
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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I agree with Brenton, there has been some unnecessary hostility shown. On the other hand, pointing out that these products are about stopping you refilling your ink cartridges or forcing you to buy the manufacturer's $300 replacement battery is unlikely to get a friendly reception from a world that's had it up to here with IP and DMCA crap.
As for NDAs and such, hey, if it bothers you, use the public library's computer and give a false name. They're completely meaningless, but corporate lawyers seem to think otherwise. In my job, I'm obliged to get NDAs from people before I can talk technical with them, even though the material they're not supposed to disclose is so widely known that they can learn more about it by calling our competitors. Most of the time the web forms are mainly used for sales leads and tracking anyway. |
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Posted: Oct 07, 2011 - 07:02 PM |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Posts: 1822
Location: Davie, FL
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| Well I just 'Discovered' this forum since I was searching for some info on using the AES encryption in the Xmega to secure a serial link for a secure memory card product. Some of the comments in this thread almost make me think of Mad Magazine's "Spy vs Spy" cartoons ("Joke and Dagger Department"). |
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Posted: Feb 15, 2012 - 12:19 PM |
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Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Posts: 3
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| I have just registered to the forum, because i need some information on Hitachi HD44780 controller an need VGA. And i can't get why there is an urgent reason for website name change. mobile spy |
Last edited by amdios on Apr 05, 2012 - 07:53 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Feb 15, 2012 - 12:55 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62354
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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What made you post in this forum on this thread? The usual place to discuss HD44780 (assuming you plan to use with an AVR8) is in AVR Forum.
Moderator. |
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