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 Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:27 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Guys! I'm going half mad here. Suddenly I have problems ejecting my USB sticks properly. The only app that has been directed actively to the stick by me is closed and gone. The device still cannot be unmounted as it is busy. I close all applcations. Still the same. I wait a few minutes. Still the same. Finally I give up and just pull the darn thing.
Now, I'd love to have a tool that can show me which files are open on my system, which process that has opened them etc.. I fiddled around in system tools and found nothing (though I have been known to posess a selective blindness from time to time). I downloaded Process Explorer and fiddled around with that too, but found nothing there either.
Now I might just rant on and ask "How is it possible to implement an operating system without the ability to see which files are open. That information must be in the OS working data somewhere!".
But instead I turn to you, enlightened scholars, to put me out of my misery by pointing to a useful tool for this occasion. Or at worst tell me that I have no chance of getting this information, am wasting my time and should just accept to be forced to these "hot'n'brute unmounts".
Same thing happends on two machines. One is an Acer Travelmate running XP home. The other is a HP 8710 running Vista Pro.
Please... |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:35 AM |
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Joined: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 12198
Location: Tangent, OR, USA
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One possibility is that you have moved something to the Trash (oops, Recycle) "bin" and have not emptied said folder. That COULD show as still having an active connection to the flash memory and not show as a real app.
Also, check the Active Process list (the one you get when you start to do a "Force Quit"). The may be some hints there.
If its any consolation, it happens, once in a while, for me on the otherwise "almost perfect" MacOS!
Jim |
_________________
Jim Wagner
Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div.
Tangent, OR, USA
"The only thing standing between us and victory is defeat" P.G.Wodhouse in Wooster & Jeeves series
Last edited by ka7ehk on Sep 06, 2008 - 01:36 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:35 AM |
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 1527
Location: Redmond, WA
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I see this too from time to time. One thing I did was to disable write caching (or is it write buffering) on the USB drive. At least then I know I will not corrupt the drive if I pull it out of USB connector.
Tom |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:38 AM |
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 1527
Location: Redmond, WA
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Quote:
One possibility is that you have moved something to the Trash (oops, Recycle) "bin" and have not emptied said folder.
Wow! This does ring home. Last time I had the problem and did not have write caching turned off, I had moved something to trash instead of deleting it. This would also explain why, on drives where I have disabled write caching, when I delete a file it is deleted and not sent to trash bin. Thanks!!
Tom |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:42 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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I too, get this problem quite often.
So how do you disable write cashing/buffering? |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:46 AM |
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 1527
Location: Redmond, WA
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I knew someone was going to ask this...
In Windows, open Device Manager, Disk Drives, right click on USB drive in question, select properties. In Policies tab, select optimize for quick removal. Done.
I think most thumb drives initialize this way. My WD 250GB USB drive does not.
Tom |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:55 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Thanks Tom.
You know, I bet I've looked at those settings in device manager at least 500 times, but never made the connection - until you just now opened my eyes.
Thanks! |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 02:05 AM |
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Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Posts: 1780
Location: North Carolina USA
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run->cmd->openfiles
You'll probably have to do
Code:
openfiles /local on
and reboot first. |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 02:26 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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dak664 wrote:
run->cmd->openfiles
You'll probably have to do
Code:
openfiles /local on
and reboot first.
OK, I tried running:
Code:
openfiles /local on
I got an error message "File couldn't be found !" |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 02:30 AM |
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 1527
Location: Redmond, WA
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 02:45 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| No, I tried again, this time rebooting my notebook first - the same error came up. |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 03:06 AM |
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Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Posts: 1780
Location: North Carolina USA
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| Maybe you aren't logged in as administrator? |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 03:44 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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| For me, openfiles is available under XP and Vista, but not Win2K. |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 03:53 AM |
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Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 6982
Location: Cleveland, OH
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I believe that run cmd openfiles /?
ought to show the valid parameters for the given system.
JC |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:01 AM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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It’s not the administrator account as I just ran it from the GUEST account and it runs also!
File could not be found?
OK check in the Windows/System32 directory for openfiles.exe
Otherwise check your spelling?
I don't know what else would cause “file could not be found.” Carl?
I know you are doing this but just in case?
1) Click the Start button.
2) Click the Run menu command
3) Type cmd in the Run dialog box and press OK
4) In the cmd Window type openfiles /local on |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:04 AM |
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 6039
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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cpluscon wrote:
For me, openfiles is available under XP and Vista, but not Win2K.
Same here ... but sysinternals had their "Filemon" utility. I think Micro$oft bought them out ???? |
_________________
Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia
Last edited by valusoft on Sep 06, 2008 - 04:10 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:06 AM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:10 AM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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To see what files are open/locked by which program get Unlocker. The best. 
http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/
The main culprit is the Windows details, thumbnails and preview 'feature' for media files.  Turning that off in XP helps a great deal. In Vista it is a lot tougher to get rid of.  |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:29 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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| Openfiles is NOT available on my machine running XP Home, but is under XP Pro.... |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 04:43 AM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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This helped me a great deal in Vista, but the last part might be useful in XP as well.
Quote:
To solve the COM surrogate error follow the steps
1. Click on start . Right Click on Computer and Select Properties
2. Click Advanced System Settings located at top left corner
3. Under the Performance field click settings
4. Go to Data Execution Prevention Tab
5. Select Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select
6. Click the Add.. button
7. Browse to c:\windows\system32 and select dllhost.exe . Click ok when done .
8. Click Apply.
9. Restart your computer and the problem will be solved .
Do you have DIVX or Nero installed? Both are known to cause this issue.
You can use FFDShow instead of Divx and for Nero you can rename NeVideo.ax
in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\DSFilter\
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If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 05:21 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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dak664 wrote:
Maybe you aren't logged in as administrator?
Yes, I am the only administrator and user on this notebook. If I wasn't, I'd be in really deep do-do... |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 05:24 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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cpluscon wrote:
Openfiles is NOT available on my machine running XP Home, but is under XP Pro....
Yes, I'm running XP Home on this machine, as well. I'll have to check the XP Professional machines and see if it works with them. |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 05:48 AM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Isn't openfiles for seeing which shared files are open? Might not even be applicable in the OP's case. |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 05:55 AM |
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Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 8144
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Ah! If I type in:
Code:
CMD filesopen /?
a DOS window opens and I get a list of command switches. So that's it, I wasn't preceding "filesopen " with the CMD instruction.
Thanks all for your help. |
_________________
Carl W. Livingston, KC5OTL
microcarl@roadrunner.com
"There are only two ways to sleep well at night... be ignorant or be prepared."
The original Dragon Slayer !
Long live the AVR!!!
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 12:46 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Good-morning all! (Yes, I had a bit of a sleep in, as it's Saturday).
Isn't it the loveliest thing to post and go to sleep, and when you wake up you have a lot of read up on, and hopefully a solution.
I think I see what openfiles is about, reading your descriptions. It seems to be a monitor that is hooked in somewhere between two OS layers. Isn't it amazing that this isnt't there in the first place. What operating system does not keep track of which resources (as eg an open file) is allocated to which process?! Windows, I presume...
Anyhow, heaps of thanks! I will turn off caching. I will try openfiles. I will try unlocker.
Thank you for the thrash can tip, Jim, but I am in the habit of trying to make sure mentally that I really want to delete a file and then its shift-del. Pooof! |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 01:17 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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Quote:
Thank you for the thrash can tip, Jim, but I am in the habit of trying to make sure mentally that I really want to delete a file and then its shift-del. Pooof!
As long as it isn't Shift-del. Pooof! Oh crap!  |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 05:10 PM |
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Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Posts: 3453
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
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| Usually when a device is locked and you don't see an obvious offender, it's explorer.exe. Don't be afraid to restart it. |
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The Dark Boxes are coming.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 06:31 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Restarting explorer.exe always loses a few of my system tray icons. I currently have 18 icons sitting there - restarting explorer will result in about 15 icons visible. The apps will still be running, but just not accessible through the tray. |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 07:57 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
Restarting explorer.exe always loses a few of my system tray icons.
Not much comfort, but that can not be blamed on Explorer. The API for the System Tray includes a callback from Explorer to the tray application which essentially tells the app that Explorer has restarted and that the app needs to place it's icon in the tray again (with a ""forward" call to the API). Many tray apps don't enlist to get that callback, including some from Microsoft themselves. Sloppy programming on the part of the tray app makers, nothing else. |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 08:13 PM |
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Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 6212
Location: Long Island New York
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You could always use a MAC 
Jim |
_________________
Jim
I have decided that I am no longer going to plan anything in advance. In a court of law this is called Pre-Meditated, and does not look good for the defense.....
I am trying to 'C' the light. One function at a time.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 08:45 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:
Restarting explorer.exe always loses a few of my system tray icons.
Not much comfort, but that can not be blamed on Explorer. The API for the System Tray includes a callback from Explorer to the tray application which essentially tells the app that Explorer has restarted and that the app needs to place it's icon in the tray again (with a ""forward" call to the API). Many tray apps don't enlist to get that callback, including some from Microsoft themselves. Sloppy programming on the part of the tray app makers, nothing else.
Comforting to know that I'm not the only sufferer.  Yes, Microsoft's own Windows Task Manager is often one of the 'missing' apps. I keep this minimized to tray - makes a handy CPU usage monitor.
I tried running the taskbar as a separate process, but that wasn't much help either. |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 09:03 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
I tried running the taskbar as a separate process, but that wasn't much help either.
OK, in case I was unclear: It is not the Explorers fault. It is not Taskbars fault either. It is the separate apps that present themselves with an icon in the taskbar that are at fault, not subscribing to the Explorer callback API. It's been several years since I dibbled with this in depth, so I'm afraid the details have been swapped out into the void. (If someone really needs them I'll dig in the vaults..) |
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Posted: Sep 06, 2008 - 09:08 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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No, no, you were quite clear. I'm afraid I wasn't.  What I meant was that by running the taskbar as a separate process it should have been possible to restart explorer.exe without killing the taskbar too. That way the pesky explorer.exe would release all the files it was locking, and the taskbar would remain as it is.
Sadly, I had no success with this at all. Killing explorer.exe invariably killed the taskbar too. |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 07:11 AM |
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Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 9894
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Windows has a reasonably bad architecture of locking files willy-nilly for read access, even if the file is already cached in memory. This is partly due to Windows' design, and partly due to poor programmers not releasing files properly/as fast as possible.
One common source of file locks is Explorer, the Windows shell. In modern Windows versions, as each folder is opened Explorer will then traverse the child folders to generate thumbnails of files when a registered thumbnail handler is avaiable -- that's how you get the movie screenshots, picture thumbnails in XP and Vista. As each file is processed, several things happen:
1) The file is opened by the explorer process and locked due to file read
2) The filetype is examined, and the registry checked for any matching handler
3) If the file is a media file, each codec on the computer is queried looking for a matching handler
4) If found, the codec or the thumbnail handler creates a thumbnail
5) The file is unlocked and the thumbnail shown -- also, optionally, the thumbnail is cached into the thumb.db hidden file inside the directory
That's a lot of work, and in the case of a broken handler or a misbehaving codec, it can cause Explorer itself to fail to release the file locks. For large directories full of many media files (or other thumbnailable types) the time required for the thumbnailing can also give the "folder locked" symptoms.
It is this reason that you need to wait a few seconds when opening a folder containing a second folder full of media files before trying to delete them, as Windows Explorer locks the child folder while it thumbnails it, much to the users chagrin when they just want to delete it.
Having the folder open in Explorer anywhere will also lock the folder, so before you can eject a driver you will need to make sure that it has no open windows. Deleted files in the drive will NOT cause locking behaviour; they are shifted into the hidden system "RECYCLER" folder on the drive and so you can delete a file to the recycle bin, remove and replace the drive, and the file will reappear in the recycle bin.
Turning off write caching can solve some of the problems, but decreases the drive performance - each small write must be flushed to the physical driver rather than cached and written out when needed. Disabling write caching (default on removable drives in XP) allows you to yank out the drive at any time with no data loss, but has the penalty of constant fsync()s.
You can use Process Explorer from Microsoft to search for any processes with open handles to files on the device, and narrow down the culprit that way.
- Dean  |
_________________
Atmel Studio 6.1 is now released, grab it here.
Report AS6/ASF bugs here.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 07:25 AM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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Which is why I keep the Windows Task Manager minimized to system tray. Selecting a video file in Explorer causes a momentary rise in CPU usage which can be seen in the tray icon. For large videos, especially broken/incomplete ones, this condition can last several minutes. When the CPU usage goes down again, it is safe to move/delete the file.
Btw. AFAIK the recycle bin is not available for removable drives. Files are deleted directly. |
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If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 10:55 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
You can use Process Explorer from Microsoft to search for any processes with open handles to files on the device
How? Where is that alternative(Show me who has open files at/below a certain path)? Or are you actually suggesting a sequential search?  On a Vista system with FireFox, Open Office Writer running I have 84 items in the list in Process Explorer.. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 11:05 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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And the saga continues.. Started a command-prompt.
Vista wrote:
ERROR: Logged-on user does not have administrative privilege.
So I go to the Control Panel, User Accounts. There is one user, me, with Administrator rights. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 11:10 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
In Windows, open Device Manager, Disk Drives, right click on USB drive in question, select properties. In Policies tab, select optimize for quick removal. Done.
Thought I'd try this out too. The Quick Removal option was already set.. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 11:30 AM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
And the saga continues.. Started a command-prompt.
Vista wrote:
ERROR: Logged-on user does not have administrative privilege.
So I go to the Control Panel, User Accounts. There is one user, me, with Administrator rights.
So you can't run the cmd program without getting the error or are you entering a program in the command-prompt window? If the latter, what command?
If you only have one user account and it’s has Administrator privileges then you should be able to run anything; except a few network commands that required you to have a password and the Guest user account turned on also.
John |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 12:34 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Oh, sorry.. My mind was occupied being irritated. This is what I intended to post(added part emphasized):
And the saga continues.. Started a command-prompt. Type openfiles and hit enter.
Vista wrote:
ERROR: Logged-on user does not have administrative privilege.
So I go to the Control Panel, User Accounts. There is one user, me, with Administrator rights. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 12:50 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Well, it works if I right click on "Command PRompt" in the Start menu and select "Run as administrator" rather than selecting Run, "cmd". (What is this!?! I have Adminstrator rights!?! Why am I being degraded when I select to run a program?)
So, now I try openfiles, and discover that I have to alter some "global flag" and then restart the computer in order to (maybe) get this working. That kind-of does not help me with the original problem. I wanted to dismount the USB stick in an orderly fashion, and I assume that this will be done if I shut down Windows. So now I don't need openfiles. I just need to shut down Windows.
Everyone stop reading now..
How on earth is it that Microsoft has worked some 15 odd years on an operating system and still haven't got it right. The OS does not maintain a list of opewn files, or is not able to compute such a list on the fly from the information available in each process?! Why bother giving us semi-transparent title bars for windows, move things around under control panel, implement weird stuff that pops up without me ever asking for it (that fluffety-fluff "panel" at the right of the desktop) etc etc) when they have not gotten basic OS functionality in place?! I have not seen one other proper operating system that was not able to do report on the aspects of the running system.
Yeah, I actually do understand why they act in this way. MS people know how to do this. They just don't care. Does not make me less irritated.
Sorry for the rant, all.. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 06:05 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62952
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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As Ross mentions above - "filemon" is a useful utility for this as it hooks the Windows system and shows you all file accessing API calls. (there's also an equally useful regmon which shows all read/writes to the registry so you can see which keys a program is accessing when it operates). I've used these successfully in the past to find out what files an app is using. I first looked at this when coming from a Novell network where it has utilities to say who has which files open but Windows has no equivalent (AFAIK)
Filemon: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96642.aspx
Regmon: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96652.aspx |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 06:44 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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| Sorry, Cliff. Filemon won't run on Vista. It has "been replaced by [...] Process Monitor". This was a newly downloaded version as per the link you supplied above. You wouldn't have an older version of filemon lying around, that you could share with me? (I doubt that Sysinternals/MS build the message box with caption "Filemon on Vista" into those older versions... |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 06:47 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
when they have not gotten basic OS functionality in place
An open file lister could be an abuse of monopoly power. So blame the anti-trust litigators; Microsoft has had to hire teams of lawyers instead of skilled programmers and hence the decline in the quality of their offerings.
If my PC acted like yours, I'd suspect virus or corrupt OS and so format the drive and start from scratch.... |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 07:16 PM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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Process Monitor is a very powerful app better filters, export and more features. But ya I like the classic’s too!
You can download it from Microsoft here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96642.aspx
The download is on the top right side of the page.
Not sure what version is being offered but there is a warning:
However to run filemon and regmon you will need to modify versions 7.04 for booth using a hexeditor.
Filemon 7.04
Offset: 4ED5, Old: 72, New: EB
Regmon 7.04
Offset: 91F5, Old: 72, New: EB |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 07:23 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62952
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
won't run on Vista
I think I know the solution to that one then!
(actually I'm about to buy myself a new latop in fact - hope I can find one that still has the XP option!) |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 08:10 PM |
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Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 340
Location: USA
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zoomcityzoom wrote:
I knew someone was going to ask this...
In Windows, open Device Manager, Disk Drives, right click on USB drive in question, select properties. In Policies tab, select optimize for quick removal. Done.
I think most thumb drives initialize this way. My WD 250GB USB drive does not.
Tom
That's because if you do that, you can only use the FAT file system, which neither supports large drives nor large files.
Since NTFS is a journaling file system, it has to be "optimized for performance" if you want to use it. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 09:19 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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A||n wrote:
But ya I like the classic’s too!
You can download it from Microsoft here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 96642.aspx
The download is on the top right side of the page.
I know. I've been there. I've downloaded it. It will not run on Vista.
Yes, I am planning to upgrade from Vista to XP, but according to the page you point to it will not work on XP with SP2 or higher either.
I've always been amazed that one of the chief architects behind NT (which is the first incarnation of the suiote that contuniyes W2K, XP, Vista) was one of the main architects behind VMS, IMO the finest operating system ever (if you deem them after their time). How the man could sink to the level of Windoze is a riddle if there ever was one.
I'll stop ranting now.
I'm still wondering if there is a convenient method to use Process Explorer to see who/what has a file open. Convenient means I know the file, or the directory, or the device and I can get the information on open files given that without a sequential search of all open files in all of the system. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 09:26 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Did you try Unlocker? |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 10:03 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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| I have a thread going at the Sysinternals site now. I'll get back with the results from that. |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 10:28 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
Did you try Unlocker?
Unlocker seems to be the best so far. "Best" means only working thing so far.. Thank you! |
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Posted: Sep 07, 2008 - 11:59 PM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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I know folks have lots of problems with windows.
But I never do. I had XP running for years on several machines and installed windows Vista 1st time and besides haveing to learn where they moved everything it's been running without any problems so far!!!
I don't leave explorer running after use ever, though as it slows me down.
I don't get it? I guess, I really am lucky nothing else can explain it! Well beter to be lucky than good. |
_________________
Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 08, 2008 - 12:28 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
I don't leave explorer running after use ever
We're talking Windows Explorer, not IE. Without Windows Explorer I have a hard time getting much done. And if I terminate it, it has this habit of just restarting.. |
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Posted: Sep 08, 2008 - 12:33 AM |
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Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 1858
Location: San Diego California
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:
I don't leave explorer running after use ever
We're talking Windows Explorer, not IE. Without Windows Explorer I have a hard time getting much done. And if I terminate it, it has this habit of just restarting..
Oh my bad! I do have to reboot on XP every once in a while but I'm usually pushing the limits in a program I'm writing and expected a bug to go endless loop on me or trash memory. |
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Resistance is futile…… You will be compiled!
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 06:09 AM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
VMS, IMO the finest operating system ever
You must have had a better version than the ones I battled with. After ten years using VMS I learned what a RPITA it was when I ported our apps to NT. |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 09:05 AM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
After ten years using VMS I learned what a RPITA it was when I ported our apps to NT.
Elaborate? Examples? What was a PITA? VMS? NT? The porting?
The knight of the order for defending VMS until death springs into action..
[ OK, this is "my" thread" so I'll de-rail it without any shame at all.] |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 10:52 AM |
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Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 4447
Location: Hemel Hemsptead, UK
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Heh. Playing with VMS at work at the moment; our playout systems use it (we're so paranoid we insist the backups of our backups of our replicated by rack, room, building, and city systems use a mix of different OSs, just in case...)
Neil |
_________________
Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 03:54 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Elaborate? Examples? What was a PITA? VMS? NT? The porting?
I used UNIX in college then used VMS when employed, so the shell lacked piping and other flexibilities. Remember /OUT=?
Thirty plus volumes of mostly unintelligible programming reference material, in binders in no particular order. How can anyone ever complain about the windows APIs after suffering through that?
Network admin, user management, OS/compiler installation, backup. All of these chores were like going to the dentist. Remember those awful license PAKs? That's not a pleasant memory!
At the kernel level, no doubt VMS, and NT, were probably relatively high quality products. Dave Cutler is the name I've heard that architected both VMS and NT. Remember what a POS Windows was before NT came along; Cutler's team no doubt did a pretty good job there, of course, borrowing from their experience at DEC. |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 05:36 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Quote:
Thirty plus volumes of mostly unintelligible programming reference material, in binders in no particular order. How can anyone ever complain about the windows APIs after suffering through that?
I had no problem finding my way around the 2 shelf-meters of VMS binders. I still can not figure out how MS thinks when they organize their help and documentation. And there was one run-time library for all languages that was "native" (adhered to VMS Procedure Calling Standard), documented in one place. And apart from "FAO" (and the system service SYS$FAO beneath it) things was called what they did, not some cryptic acronym or similar. Unix people don't like this, I know...
Quote:
Network admin, user management, OS/compiler installation, backup. All of these chores were like going to the dentist.
OK, I was mostly not involved in these things.
Quote:
Remember those awful license PAKs? That's not a pleasant memory!
Yes remember, and no not pleasant. Not very much better with MSs product activation codes though. (Still vaguely remember the example PAK in the documentation. Was it "HEAH-FIDO-VOFF-VOFF"?)
Quote:
Cutler's team no doubt did a pretty good job there
Uh? Need to restart the whole of Windoze just because I install a new app? Yuck!
And the core subject of this thread: Not intrinsic thing to display open files? Bah!
But, yes: Piping is one of U*ix's definitive strengths. |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 05:50 PM |
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Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 1629
Location: Germany
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An other vote for unlocker. It's a great tool which I'm using since several month.
Also make sure that you don't have any program running in the background which might access your USB drives. In my case it was O&O Defrag which I had configured to defragment my drives whenever the CPU is idle. Took me some time to find out.
Regards
Sebastian |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 05:54 PM |
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Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 2395
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Good point. Ditto for file indexing. |
_________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 08:39 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Not intrinsic thing to display open files?
I've forgotten how to do this on VMS. Do you recall? |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 10:15 PM |
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Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 894
Location: Chicago area, USA
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cpluscon wrote:
JohanEkdahl wrote:
Not intrinsic thing to display open files?
I've forgotten how to do this on VMS. Do you recall?
show device /files ? |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 10:42 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Oh stop it now. I'm starting to sob. The nostaghia...
One game we used to play was "Type your code correct the first and only time". A small "assignment" was put up. everyone gets to think for a while and then
Code:
$ PASCAL /INPUT=SYS$INPUT /OUTPUT=SOLUTION.OBJ
PROGRAM Solution
VAR
i : Integer;
str : PACKED ARRAY [1..20] OF Character;
.
.
.
<rest of program source>
.
.
.
END.
[ctrl-Z]
$ LINK SOLUTION
$ RUN SOLUTION
<And here the EXE should perform as per the assignment>
So you'd have to type the program in correctly in one go (you could edit while on a row by DELeting characters and retype, but once you hit enter that was a point of no return for that line).
A lot of fun! (For those not fluent in DCL the above makes little sense, yes)
And I once played a aprils-fools-joke on our students by adding the new (sub-)command
Code:
SET WEATHER [/SUNNY] [/CLOUDY] [/TEMPERATURE=n] [/GIRLS_IN_THIN_T_SHIRTS] [/BOYS_IN_TIGHT_BERMUDAS] etc
to the help on our VAX 11/785 systems help. Every option was documented in the standard "stiff" DEC style, with dry comments about the possible failure of /GIRLS n /BOYS options if the system missed the something-hardware, and the danger of all hell breaking loose if the temperature was set to above 800 degrees Celsius, etc..
And I suppose those of you that ran or used VMS systems recall the file with changed error message definitions where eg "Quota Exceeded" was changed to "Byte the bag quota".
Sob...  |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 11:14 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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Getting low on disk space?
Code:
purge [...]*.*;
Or something like that. Who needs configuration management when you have file versions! |
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Posted: Sep 09, 2008 - 11:15 PM |
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Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 4447
Location: Hemel Hemsptead, UK
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Of error messages, who knows where this message is to be found?
Quote:
An obscure error of the fifth kind has occurred.
 |
_________________
Neil Barnes
www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk
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Posted: Sep 10, 2008 - 05:28 PM |
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 2656
Location: Minneapolis
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For Win2k there is a tool called OH.EXE that lists open files as well as other object types.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/ ... _setup.exe
Haven't yet looked but this may be available for XP/Vista. Note that the utility is part of the Win2k Resource Kit.
Edit: oh.exe worked under XP Pro, for me, but not under Vista. |
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 07:59 PM |
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Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 62952
Location: (using avr-gcc in) Finchingfield, Essex, England
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Quote:
Oh stop it now. I'm starting to sob. The nostaghia..
Johan,
Just bumping an old thread (and I'm sure there was another one where you talked more extensively about VAX/VMS nostalgia) but I thought you might be interested in this use for a Raspberry Pi (well two of them in fact):
http://www.designspark.com/content/rasp ... ax-cluster
 |
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 08:04 PM |
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Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 2512
Location: Redmond, WA USA
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| Wow. Talk about memories from the past. That is really cool. |
_________________
Larry
Those afraid to embrace the future will quickly fade into the past. - larryvc
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 10:07 PM |
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Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 18761
Location: Lund, Sweden
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Cliff!
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you...!
This really tempting. In the store in the basement I have had, for the last 18 years or so, a Tandberg terminal that in essence is a VT220 (black on "paper white" to boot) that I just have not been able to get rid of. Have to pick it up this summer and see if it still starts (it has firmware in EEPROM thet might not have retained it's contents, electrolytics might have gone dry etc. Prolly will power it up outside first time...
But if it works, how cool just to have a VMS system up. Oh the joy of a non-cryptic command-line language, a nice Pascal compiler, and a file system with versions!
Cliff, did I say "thank you!"?
[EDIT: Straightened out some name confusion..] |
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Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 12:57 AM |
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Joined: Sep 04, 2002
Posts: 21396
Location: Orlando Florida
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| I still have my ADM-3A in the workshop. |
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Imagecraft compiler user
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