XMEGA

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Old Italian proverb: "Chi di speranza campa, disperato muore" or "He who lives in hope will die desperate".

How long have you been drooling and hoping? :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I've been holding my breath since "available now" in February--that is why I have been so ornery lately, lack of oxygen.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Just got two ATXMEGA128A1's :P

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Maybe Lee can start breathing again :-) . Unless he is holding his breath until he actually is holding some in his own hand.

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Quote:

Just got two ATXMEGA128A1's

Quote:

Maybe Lee can start breathing again

Maybe. I just talked to the local rep yesterday, and his latest info was that "general sampling" will begin mid-May, so that part is coming true :lol:

The bad news is that stocking quantities are not expected till late Q3 or into Q4. Given typical slippage in Atmel claims, that blows away the Xmega for a design-in for a new app where I wanted to take advantage of one of the new features.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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An ATXMega128A1 has arrived in the wilderness of Northern New Hampshire :D Let the development begin...

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Last friday I had a sample into my hands, as well as a new STK600, but I should return them to Atmel's representatives. Sight.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Still no samples here.

A3 datasheet is updated, and A4 datasheet is released. Boy, if that A4 is priced about the same as Mega164 family...drool...multiple USARTs, twin DAC, 12-bit ADC & DAC, event system, DMA, ...
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product...

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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If it is priced for about the same than Mega164, then who would use Mega164 anymore (if no 5V needed though)?

That would be something to be feared by other competitors, huh?

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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Series A "manual" (the 300 page one) has been updated to rev. B. About 50 changes in the revision history. I haven't had a chance to browse to see if anything jumps out at me with new or changed information.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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These are always fun to read. It's like reading the new specs for a nice car that's coming out.

EDIT: I noticed that the crystal frequency can be multiplied by 1-31x, and that the crystals accepted can range from .4-16MHz. Does this mean we can do software overclocking, or will the AVR prevent this?

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Just found that Mouser have started to list the ATXMEGA128A1-AU at
1 $8.06
10 $6.94

No delivery dates as yet but the next step in the long haul to an A4 chip you can actually buy :D

Trevor

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Just went to Digikey...they seem to now list all of the Xmegas that Atmel has announced....(they have no stock on any), but this is starting to look more promising.

They list the ATXMEGA256A1-AU for 10.75 (1)

Mouser still lists only the two parts they have had listed.

-Jim
http://www.noniandjim.com
Analog and Digital Electronics
Music Synthesizers

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Only on the US version of the Digikey website. Nothing yet on the UK website. Also Digikey do not mention Xmega on the Atmel- vendor page.

So another small step forward - but a lot more to needed.

I see there is an expected delivery date of 4th September 2008 on all these products. with the usual

Quote:
Ship dates are approximate and subject to change

Trevor

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Well, I just got an e-mail from my local Atmel rep. asking if I'd received the XMega samples that I requested some time ago.

She said that if I didn't, she'd get them to me ASAP. And I have to think that she will, because she has always been quite prompt about servicing my sample requests.

So now the question is??? What kind of contraption will I make when I get them???

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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microcarl wrote:
What kind of contraption will I make when I get them???
I'll post the DDS assembler code I ported to XMega so you can start with some working code. Do you have a STK600 to mount the device?

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Will the DDR use the on-board DAC? Sine or square?

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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kmr wrote:
microcarl wrote:
What kind of contraption will I make when I get them???
I'll post the DDS assembler code I ported to XMega so you can start with some working code. Do you have a STK600 to mount the device?

I have an STK600 (and many thanks to clawson too!), but I'll need to get an adapter board for it. That, or simply make a small development board of my own design. The STK600 has very much become my work-horse, above and beyond the STK500.

Now that I know I'm actually getting a few samples, I'll have to get serious with the study/learning and see what they really have to offer.

It's off to Atmel for data-sheets, and what-not!!!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

Last Edited: Thu. Jul 31, 2008 - 11:41 PM
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Jim, I posted the code in http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

It uses the internal DAC. Sine, square, sawtooth, triangle waves.

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microcarl wrote:
That, or simply make a small development board of my own design.
I know you can do 8mil traces with your homebrew. Have you done a TQFP100 solderpad before? If anyone here can do it at home, it'd be you!

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kmr wrote:
microcarl wrote:
That, or simply make a small development board of my own design.
I know you can do 8mil traces with your homebrew. Have you done a TQFP100 solderpad before? If anyone here can do it at home, it'd be you!

I'll sure give it a try!!!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Let us know how it goes, Carl. The STK600 TQFP100 topboard is nice. And, to buy a TQFP100 ZIF socket by itself probably costs more than the entire adapter board.

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It looks like for the 100 pin TQFP, the pin width is 0.0066", with a spacing of 0.0196".

I might be able to fudge the pads a thousands of an inch, or two and hold the 0.008" trace width.

The key isn't so much getting the pattern on the copper clad, it's controlling the etch time. For small trace withs, you need fast etch times - lots of agitation and heat (about 130F).

I'll wait until I get the little jewels in my hands, then run some experiments on a "Home-Grown " board.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

Last Edited: Fri. Aug 1, 2008 - 12:01 AM
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Sounds tight, Carl. Good luck if you decide to proceed!

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kmr wrote:
Sounds tight, Carl. Good luck if you decide to proceed!

It will ultimately be development of higher skill levels - no luck involved.

But I will be attempting the "Home-Brew " XMega board - be it success, or failure!!! It'll be the challenge of learning how to consistently work with that fine a pitch at home that interest me.

The problem won't be making a PCB with that fine a pitch, I'm afraid. It'll be actually laying the IC down on the PCB and getting it soldered without shorts. I can do it at work, but at home, I think I'll need a better "Mag-Light " then the one I currently have. But even that is in the works.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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microcarl wrote:
It'll be actually laying the IC down on the PCB and getting it soldered without shorts.
Are you thinking about using some sort of solder mask after etching?

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Wow! Did I read the cover page correctly? The XMega will run at 32MHz @ 3.3 volt operation??? This is the first real peek I've had at the data-sheet.

Now I'm wondering what "Speed Demon " stuff I can pull-off!!!

Step aside, Lee! I'm going to crank it up!!! It's been a bit boring over the past few months, working at 1.000MHz. It's time to speed things up, just a bit.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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kmr wrote:
microcarl wrote:
It'll be actually laying the IC down on the PCB and getting it soldered without shorts.
Are you thinking about using some sort of solder mask after etching?

No! I'll use liquid flux and initially solder the IC down, then re-flow it with a hot-air tool.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
The key isn't so much getting the pattern on the copper clad, it's controlling the etch time. For small trace withs, you need fast etch times - lots of agitation and heat (about 130F).

Hi Carl,

I've been using the sponge method with great succes - you might want to give it a go sometime.

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CirMicro wrote:
Quote:
The key isn't so much getting the pattern on the copper clad, it's controlling the etch time. For small trace withs, you need fast etch times - lots of agitation and heat (about 130F).

Hi Carl,

I've been using the sponge method with great succes - you might want to give it a go sometime.

Hi Mike,

If you're talking about using a sponge for etching, I've been using that for a several of years now - remember the foam paint brushes that I used?

I did some experiments a while back with etching, using air agitation - lots of it - about 4 fish tank air pumps worth. There was so much air, the PCB blank literally floated on top of the enchant. It took about 30 seconds to etch a 1-Oz PCB at 130 degrees F.

I'll stay with the toner method and the Green TRF, but I'll be moving to a much faster etching method in the near future, I hope.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
If you're talking about using a sponge for etching, I've been using that for a several of years now - remember the foam paint brushes that I used?

I'm actually referring to using a regular cleaning type sponge. The board is never submerged in the etchant. It is very quick and because the board isn't submerged you get very little under cut.

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Great on that project, Kevin. I'll check it out.

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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CirMicro wrote:
Quote:
If you're talking about using a sponge for etching, I've been using that for a several of years now - remember the foam paint brushes that I used?

I'm actually referring to using a regular cleaning type sponge. The board is never submerged in the echant. It is very quick and because the board isn't submerged you get very little under cut.

I'll give it a try on the next board I make.

Thanks!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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I checked Digi Key, they list them, but say that they have none in stock. Now what I found really interesting is that the more powerful XMEGAs were cheaper than some of their less functional counterparts!

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Selling price is set by (at least two quantities). One is the perceived value relative to other products on the market. By that measure, XMega ought to be more costly.

Another factor, however, is the cost of production. If they have done geometry shrinks (as they must certainly have), then there are more die on a wafer and cost is lower. If they have gotten yield up, as they should have, then that also reduces cost. If they are using more automation, then cost is also lower.

Another factor, on top of this, is competitive position. It depend who they are selling against (not just Megas, but Pics, ST, etc, etc).

I'd suggest that, without inside information, you cannot tell which of these is the dominant price driver. For us ordinary folks, rejoice at the price and pray delivery of the product!

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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DiodeDan wrote:
I checked Digi Key, they list them, but say that they have none in stock. Now what I found really interesting is that the more powerful XMEGAs were cheaper than some of their less functional counterparts!

According to the Digikey US site prices are in order of functionality. Are you sure you appreciate the difference between A1, A3 and A4 ?

I would have to agree with Jim the important thing is delivery. It seems likely that the A1 chips will be delivered long before A4. So Digikeys 'expectation' for all to be delivered on 4th September seems highly umlikely.

From past experience Digikey are doing their best to provide information but both prices and delivery can and probably will change. For accurate information we will need to wait until stock is available.

Trevor

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Quote:
According to the Digikey US site prices are in order of functionality. Are you sure you appreciate the difference between A1, A3 and A4 ?

I believe that he was comparing xmegas to regular megas, not the xmega variants. For instance, the mega128, mega1280 and mega1281 are in the range of $15 - $17, while the xmega128s don't go above $9.50. Same goes for the mega256 variants.

Regards,
Steve A.

The Board helps those that help themselves.

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Quote:
According to the Digikey US site prices are in order of functionality.

Could you give me a link on that? Would that be a quote from DigiKey, or Atmel?

Prices would be established on what the market will bear. A case in point is the striking similarity on quantity-lot pricing of AVRs at Mouser and DigiKey, both authorized US distributors. But the qty. 1 pricing may vary widely, depending on how efficient the organization is at handling single-unit orders among other things.

If it were pure functionality, then why was the Mega329 priced less than the '169 for several years?

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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DiodeDan wrote:
I checked Digi Key, they list them, but say that they have none in stock. Now what I found really interesting is that the more powerful XMEGAs were cheaper than some of their less functional counterparts!

I call Digikey and they said their lead time is 5 weeks from now.

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Quote:
I call Digikey and they said their lead time is 5 weeks from now.

My vibes on Xmegas for productions.

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.p...

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Well, well, well...
The following is from my local Atmel rep.
"

Quote:
Carl,

I am sending you your samples of the ATXMEGA64A1’s today on UPS.

The ATXMEGA128’s will not be shipping until next week. "

It looks like I'm getting some new toys, in a day or two.

Also:

Quote:
"I have resent your Authorized AVR Consultant Application information to an Atmel application engineer; who will get this processed. "
After 11 months, it looks like I'll get some attention.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Quote:
I am sending you your samples of the ATXMEGA64A1’s today on UPS.

That is quite interesting. See if you can determine the chip rev. The latest datasheet didn't even post an errata list for 64A1.

['128A1 rev. G errata list is ugly--you'd have to fasten a pork chop to it before the dog would play with it.]

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
Quote:
I am sending you your samples of the ATXMEGA64A1’s today on UPS.

That is quite interesting. See if you can determine the chip rev. The latest datasheet didn't even post an errata list for 64A1.

['128A1 rev. G errata list is ugly--you'd have to fasten a pork chop to it before the dog would play with it.]

Lee

Okay Lee, when it arrives, I'll check it out and let you know. I'll even see if I can take a picture of the rev level - hopefully.

Stay tuned!

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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My '128A1 are "ES 0820" on the front--Engineering Sample, week 20 of 2008.

On the back, the second line is "35953G", and the G should be the chip rev level.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
My '128A1 are "ES 0820" on the front--Engineering Sample, week 20 of 2008.

On the back, the second line is "35953G", and the G should be the chip rev level.

Lee

We'll see what my samples bring to the table.

Until then, I wait - with much anticipation.

I guess I should see if the ImageCraft ICCAVR compiler has them covered.

EDIT:
Well, at least the Xmega64A1, Xmega128A1, Xmega192A1 & Xmega256A1 contollers are in the ImageCraft ICCAVR compiler's options list.

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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Lee, glad to hear that you got your samples! Enjoy. As you'll see the register naming convention works somewhat differently. I have a sample assembly language project posted on the site if you are interested.

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Quote:
I have a sample assembly language project posted
Who's side are you on? :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Quote:
I guess I should see if the ImageCraft ICCAVR compiler has them covered.

Quote:
I have a sample assembly language project posted

Thanks, but...

Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History
...

V2.03.4 Commercial Release
...
* added ATxmega128A1 and ATxmega64A1 chips support ...


;)

The wait is now for STK600-TQFP100 as mentioned in anothe Xmega thread. And the time to start playing. Not gonna get real serious until EEPROM works, probably.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
Quote:
I have a sample assembly language project posted
Thanks, but...
Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History
I see that you C.

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Quote:
I see that you C.
But I could not C the mentioned project. :)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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