Schematic- and PCB design programs

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I used to think all autorouters were terrible.  Freerouting.net gives impressive results and made me optimistic that the technology is possible.

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outer_space wrote:

I used to think all autorouters were terrible.  Freerouting.net gives impressive results and made me optimistic that the technology is possible.

Yes, but it was taken down several months ago if I recall correctly because of some legal dispute.

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Changes to java made the freerouting architecture unworkable.  It worked such that you had to upload your design to run the autorouter.  This was bad for professional projects that don't want their design floating around on the internet.  The source code is available now and can be run locally.

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OrCAD wrote:
OrCAD Capture CIS Lite

■ You cannot save designs that have more than 75 nets, including the 
hierarchical blocks in the design. You can still view or create larger 
designs.

I don't think you're going to get very much done at all within that limit!

Quote:
■ You cannot create parts with more than 100 pins.

And that's also pretty tough these days!

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outer_space wrote:

The source code is available now and can be run locally.

 

From where? (Never mind... found it at http://www.eevblog.com/forum/cha... )

 

Are you actually using it?

 

I would be interested in trying it locally. I have used it a few times in the distant past when you had to upload your .dsn file. This would help me avoid the move to Kicad just for the push/shove features.

 

Cheers,

 

Ross

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

Last Edited: Wed. Oct 22, 2014 - 01:33 AM
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Its on my agenda to get it running, busy with too much stuff first.  Years back I wrote the geda plugin to export/import dsn files, used freerouting on many professional projects (don't tell my clients their design was uploaded to the internet!)  Even if something has to be hand routed, running it thru freerouting would come up with some great answers I didn't think of.  I tried talking to professional pcb layout people about using it, but it threatens their careers so they don't want to hear about any autorouting.

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1) Freerouting do not work anymore? or missing somethink?

2) Autorouteur:

when you have done all EMC rules & clever plass of component you can use autorouter but  it is why "prof" not use so much. 

I do not use autorouteur but freerouting was nice to modify a finish board. 

Thierry

Thierry Pottier

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I just tried the Windows version of FreeRouter (link above). It works nicely... based upon a single test.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Thank you 

download and try,

for finish board some need ny wire usefull, but for new board. I must see more perhaps usefull.

Thierry

Thierry Pottier

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I just tried freerouting on an altium design.  It mostly works but insisted on using 10/10 tracks so it failed on any closely pitched IC and bga.  I think it is altium dsn export which is broken or never fully developed.

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The TopoR autorouter operator manual states that Altium uses only metric units.

Does Freerouting read P-CAD ASCII?

TIA

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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gchapman wrote:

Mouser Speeds Design with Launch of MultiSIM BLUE,
Powered by NI

New Design Tool Does it All: Scheme, Simulate, PCB Design & Layout, and BOM to Cart Purchase

October 2, 2014

http://www.mouser.com/publicrelationsmousermultisimblueseptlaunch2014final/

 

Guys I saw this tool today and as a Mouser client I see some advantages. Someone already try?

Regards,

Bruno Muswieck

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Which layout program has push and shove?   I think thats the best feature to have to save time.  Probably one of the hardest features to develop.    I use Diptrace which I like a lot but it doesn't have push and shove.

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I think the latest KiCad does. There is also a 3rd party tool that provides it with Eagle. It used to be at FreeRouting.net.  Memory has failed me with the name...

 

Oh yeah ... look at post #18 in this thread  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/cha...

 

 

 

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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I've used most.

Definitely prefer DipTrace.

 

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A question a bit from the side line.

I have a board made in ExpressPCB, and have payed for a gerber file.

Now I need to move 4 holes 1 mm, and don't want to order a new board.

 

Are there a free/cheap easy to use gerber editor?

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A roundabout way is Gerber to SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics), vector graphics editor, export to Gerber and drill.

gerbv Logo

gerbv - A Free/Open Source Gerber Viewer

http://gerbv.geda-project.org/

...

Gerbv can export a layer image to PNG, .ps, .pdf, and .svg, both from within the GUI as well as via a command line switch (cairo version only).

boldport/pcbmode · GitHub

https://github.com/boldport/pcbmode

A printed circuit board design tool with a twist

PCBmodE is a printed circuit board design Python script that creates an SVG from JSON input files, and then creates Gerber and Excellon files for manufacturing.

PCBmodE documentation states it's only for two layers.

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Tue. Jan 20, 2015 - 05:18 PM
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DanielG wrote:

Which layout program has push and shove?   I think thats the best feature to have to save time.  Probably one of the hardest features to develop.    I use Diptrace which I like a lot but it doesn't have push and shove.

 

The Pulsonix software I use does:

 

http://www.pulsonix.com/

http://www.pulsonix.com/download...

 

It's quite expensive, though.

Leon Heller G1HSM

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AutoTRAX DEX - FREE: No pin limits, no sheet limits, no layers limit, no PCB size limit ... no limits!

 

The Free version of AutoTRAX DEX. This is the non-commercial (not for profit) version. It is the identical version as the commercial version. There is only one binary program. The only restriction is that it must be used for non-commercial projects. There is no demo program; there’s no need!

  • You do not need to register for the free software.
  • It does not have a time limit.
  • There is no limit to the number or size of sheets.
  • There are no layer limits or PCB size limits.
  • There are no adverts for PCB board manufacturers.
  • The BOM does not ‘guide’ you to a major component distributor.

Unlike other EDA programs, DEX has just one simple to understand price for commercial use. Non-commercial use is totally free with no limits except it must be used for non-commercial use. Simply put, non-commercial use is totally free, commercial use is not. If you are making $$$ out of your design then it is only fair that you pay an equally fair single price.

Now that's a refreshing change!

Visit the web site for more...

 

Regards
Iliya Kovac, Developer of AutoTRAX DEX
Spreading the joy
 

 

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Iliya when your program was first released I was excited because you took up the name of the Protel program I was using and I thought that, at least, one could import and use years of REAL Autotrax files but, from memory, that was not the case.

 

Has this changed? I ended up purchasing RIMU because I could just import Autotrax files, the schematics were not so good but the PCBs work very well and I can simply import components, both schematics and PCB layouts. May need a bit of massaging but otherwise they import well.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Iliya when your program was first released I was excited because you took up the name of the Protel program I was using and I thought that, at least, one could import and use years of REAL Autotrax files but, from memory, that was not the case.

Found in the Revision History

http://kov.com/DownloadFiles/wha...

Tuesday 28th October, 2014

Multiline text output to Gerber can now be left, center or right aligned.

Will now import AutoTRAX EDA files with sub-system sheets.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I don't think it's the Protel Autotrax files it's talking about but I hope I'm wrong..at least once in my life....

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:

I don't think it's the Protel Autotrax files it's talking about but I hope I'm wrong..at least once in my life....

 

Sorry, AutoTRAX is not related to Protel/Altium in any way.

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I'm surprised that Protel/Altium hasn't sued you yet for using their software name.  wink

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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IliyaKovac wrote:

Sorry, AutoTRAX is not related to Protel/Altium in any way.

 

Can you clarify what exact CAD System files this means then ?

 

Will now import AutoTRAX EDA files with sub-system sheets.

 

Import is usually terminology referring to third part database reading (eg I also see Import Eagle)

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js wrote:

I'm surprised that Protel/Altium hasn't sued you yet for using their software name.  wink

 

It's simple, I own the US AutoTRAX trademark. Protel never registered the trademark. 

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Import from a previous AutoTRAX product of mine. AutoTRAX  EDA. Now no longer sold. It's replaced by AutoTRAX DEX. A total redesign.

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What, no Linux version?

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Hi

Download AutoTRAX.

I am a eagle user... 

I am impress, ok need some  time to learn this GUI.. not so direct but 15 years with eagle take time to see new GUI.

Good work IliyaKovac  your price can make change , I am just see to update eagle to 7.2 or not...

Thierry

 

Thierry Pottier

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joeymorin wrote:

What, no Linux version?

 

It may run under Wine.

 

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15 years with eagle

...will make you crazy for sure....wink

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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When I did the work for importing Eagle libraries and schematics/boards I had to learn Eagle and the internal data structure. I am totally amazed by how bad it is. I know you are not supposed to criticise competitors, but it really is !$%#@#!@

I am astonished it got the market share it as.

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IliyaKovac wrote:
It may run under Wine.
Sadly no.

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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..maybe you didn't drink enough of it.....

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:

15 years with eagle

...will make you crazy for sure....wink

for me, 1 day with Eagle was enough. How 80's it is.

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Good work Ilija, looks promising.

I make the PCB's myself and I need to print the high resolution negative on transparency.

Can this be done in AutoTRAX?

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Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

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Thanks, I'll try that.

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js wrote:

15 years with eagle

...will make you crazy for sure....wink

 

Why do you think he's here?

274,207,281-1 The largest known Mersenne Prime

Measure twice, cry, go back to the hardware store

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IliyaKovac wrote:

Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

 

Do you have separate XY scaling ?

Years ago, I recall tweaking postscript files to have differing XY scales, so that the actual final image was square.

Anything that uses a drum path, is going to have material thickness impacts.

 

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Who-me wrote:

 

IliyaKovac wrote:

 

Use the plot not print function. Tools->Cam->Plot menu. You get scaling, reverse printing, negative, per layer.

 

 

 

Do you have separate XY scaling ?

Years ago, I recall tweaking postscript files to have differing XY scales, so that the actual final image was square.

Anything that uses a drum path, is going to have material thickness impacts.

 

 

Sorry no.

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Here is my short opinion about software that I have tested:

*EAGLE:
              - Pros: free version available, very popular, lot of libraries, lot of components available, easy switch to PCB design,relatively small program < 100 Mb.
             - Cons: the interface is horrible and in my opinion is one of the worst i.e if you want to move object you have to click move button for this operation from panel, then if you want to make connection between two components you have to click another button, same for removing, changing etc.. horrible and makes the whole process is very slow. I found it very hard to edit components from library i.e uC pin names, also there is no simulation environment.

*MULTISIM
                   -Pros: very intuitive interface, easy to use from the first launch, easy switch to PCB design(require UltiBoard), simulation capability, relatively easy edition of existing components.
                   -Cons: no free version, relatively small library - especially in case of uC, require UltiBoard for PCB design.

 

Summing things up, I personal choose MULTISIM, mainly because designing schematics is 2 times faster than with EAGLE. What's your opinion about those two ?

Last Edited: Sat. Feb 21, 2015 - 11:18 PM
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IliyaKovac wrote:

 

joeymorin wrote:

 

What, no Linux version?

 

 

 

It may run under Wine.

 

 

You may be in look in the near future as .net Is be imported to LINUX.

 

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnnouncingNET2015NETasOpenSourceNETonMacandLinuxandVisualStudioCommunity.aspx

 

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.net Is be imported to LINUX.

And that's BAD, right?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:

.net Is be imported to LINUX.

And that's BAD, right?

 

For me it's great, however, the poor guys and spent a lot of time porting their code to native LINUX may have wished they developed the program using .NET.

When the port has been completed there will probably be a lot more quality applications on LINUX.

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But if you post something after you CAN delete all.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Tool makes high-end PCB design affordable

April 29, 2015

http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/cole-bin/4439314/Tool-makes-high-end-PCB-design-affordable

...

Mentor Graphics has expanded its existing PADS platform to offer three options: PADS Standard, Standard PLUS and Standard Professional. At the same time, it has dropped the entry point from the current $10,000 average in the industry to $5,000 for an unlimited usage license on its baseline PADS Standard.

...

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Fri. May 1, 2015 - 05:09 AM
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gchapman wrote:

Tool makes high-end PCB design affordable

April 29, 2015

http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/cole-bin/4439314/Tool-makes-high-end-PCB-design-affordable

...

Mentor Graphics has expanded its existing PADS platform to offer three options: PADS Standard, Standard PLUS and Standard Professional. At the same time, it has dropped the entry point from the current $10,000 average in the industry to $5,000 for an unlimited usage license on its baseline PADS Standard.

...

 

Oh goodie... I'll rush out and buy two.

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Cant stop laughing Ross laugh

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