Forbiden tech from China has arrived :-)

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#1
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That's right, I ordered a board with the infamous AVR clones from Logic Green. It's an Ocrobot Alpha with the  LGT8F328P MCU. The board itself is pretty crappy, no crystal, uses an internal 32MHz oscillator divided by 2 (16MHz).

So it's kind of an Arduino clone, comes with the optiboot bootloader. But is this MCU a piece of crap, or should Microchip be worried and start preemptive lawsuits? I will test it and find out.

 

 

The markings on the MCU have been erased, but I did a memory dump (the flash is mapped as a RAM address, like the new Tiny models) and it checks out.

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El Tangas wrote:
the infamous AVR clones from Logic Green

Are you referring to this: http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/a... ?

 

The http://www.mcugreen.com/?page_id=5074 link in that post seems to be dead.

 

Bug google suggests this: http://www.electrodragon.com/w/Arduino_LGT

 

Datasheet (Chinese): http://www.electrodragon.com/w/images/4/47/Lgt8fx8p_databook_v1.0.1.pdf

 

 

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Yes, it has the same chip, but what I bought is this. It was not easy to find.

 

Edit: There is also a forum (in Chinese, like the datasheet sad fortunately there is google translate).

Last Edited: Wed. Aug 9, 2017 - 03:32 PM
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The most interesting feature of this MCU seems to be the uDSC, which is a math coprocessor. It has a 32 bit accumulator, 2 16 bit registers and can do 16 bit DMA to/from the SRAM. It will take me quite a while to figure it out.

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Hello,

  Do you have to load a driver for Windows in order to use this new USB-serial IC?   For the Nano, one must download and install the CH341 driver.  Also, with Windows10, I had to disable the "driver signature verification", a weird, paranoid, poorly documented, cumbersome process that Microsoft forces on its customers.

 

Did you get the 12-bit ADC working?  Or the DAC?   Are there guides to the 0.1" break-out board pins/vias?  It looks like D13 (SPI clock) is not on the silkscreen, or, it might have a different name.

 

Does it load Arduino programs using AVRdude like the standard Arduino?

 

It looks like there is a "pop off" USB micro-B style connector.  Do the side mounting tabs go into plated-thru holes or are they simply soldered onto the PCB top?

 

Please keep us informed on your explorations on this new board.

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Chinese, like the datasheet 

Or you can get the English version, the chip can run at 32MHz!!

 

Attachment(s): 

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Looking at the datasheet it seem to have the M328PB pinout with the extra pin functions.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Simonetta wrote:

Hello,

  Do you have to load a driver for Windows in order to use this new USB-serial IC?   For the Nano, one must download and install the CH341 driver.  Also, with Windows10, I had to disable the "driver signature verification", a weird, paranoid, poorly documented, cumbersome process that Microsoft forces on its customers.

This one has the Holtek HT42B534 USB to serial. The driver auto-installed on Windows 10 (a "up-to-date" test machine with Win 10 crap), had to install manually on my dev PC (Windows 7, but auto update service is offline, so that doesn't mean anything, it may auto-install on a default configuration), but I have not done extensive test for other windows versions.

 

Simonetta wrote:

Did you get the 12-bit ADC working?  Or the DAC?   Are there guides to the 0.1" break-out board pins/vias?  It looks like D13 (SPI clock) is not on the silkscreen, or, it might have a different name.

ADC: Not tested yet.

DAC: I wouldn't call it an actual DAC, it's a programmable resistor ladder, without buffer, so it has no driving capacity.

Guides: Maybe on that forum link I posted in #3, or on this awful site, but most updated stuff is in Chinese.

SPI: I'll post a pic of the backside, the silkscreen is more detailed.

 

Simonetta wrote:

Does it load Arduino programs using AVRdude like the standard Arduino?

Yes, it comes with a bootloader compatible with Arduino. But there is a problem, the auto-reset via DTR doesn't seem to be working (I don't understand why not, maybe DTR is not connected to reset. Maybe it can be modded to work). So you have to press the reset button manually right before the upload, like in the bad old days.

The Arduino stuff can be downloaded from the MCU manufacturer site. As usual, only the Chine version is up-do-date.

 

Simonetta wrote:

It looks like there is a "pop off" USB micro-B style connector.  Do the side mounting tabs go into plated-thru holes or are they simply soldered onto the PCB top?

Its mounted through-hole, however the leads are very short and don't reach the other side. See the picture bellow.

 

js wrote:
Or you can get the English version, the chip can run at 32MHz!!

You know how Atmel has the "Summary" and "Complete" datasheets? That one is the summary. The complete one is Chinese only.

 

Simonetta wrote:

Please keep us informed on your explorations on this new board.

 

I willyes

 

 

Backside pic:

 

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Is there a 'head in pillow' solder defect on the mcu pin 4 decoupling cap, or is it just an illusion?

 

 

Tom Pappano
Tulsa, Oklahoma

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You mean on the smaller cap? Yes, it might, I can't tell for sure. Good catch, I will rework it a bit.

 

 

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Oh!  They have a 32k flash version now?  I noticed when the LGT88 was announced, but and 8k chip wasn't very interesting (particularly with ATmega8 selling for $1.  Though perhaps those are actually the LGTs in counterfeit packaging...)

 

You said you confirmed 32k was present, right?

 

(and: another cheap SOIC USB chip!   that's cool, too!)

 

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I programmed the chip to do a memory dump, and the bootloader is at word address 0x3A00 (mapped to data address 0xB400), so it must have 32k flash, as expected.

 

This is the memory map from the datasheet, with a few notes of my own.

 

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Huh.  The text might be in Chinese, but those are REALLY NICE diagrams (pretty much throughout the manual!)

 

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This time, I'm posting a simple timer output test.

 

The LGT8F328P has 4 timers, 3 of them are compatible with the ones on the Mega 328P, plus one extra 16 bit timer. These timers have several extra features, for example, they can be connected to an internal clock source than runs at twice the main internal oscillator, i.e. @64MHz.

 

This means that irrespective of the CPU frequency, high frequency signals can be generated from the timer outputs. The following are square wave outputs from timer0 @32MHz, 16MHz and 8MHz. Due to the rise and fall times of ~20ns for the I/O ports, the higher frequency outputs are hardly "square". The CPU is running @16MHz in every case.

 

1) CTC mode with internal 64MHz clock source and OCR0A = 0 (32MHz square wave output)

 

2) CTC mode with internal 64MHz clock source and OCR0A = 1 (16MHz square wave output)

 

3) CTC mode with internal 64MHz clock source and OCR0A = 3 (8MHz square wave output)

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The rise and fall times seemed a bit slow to me, so I compared with one of my Chinese nano clones, with a real Mega 328P. Indeed, the Mega has sharper edges than the LGT clone.

 

Nominal 62.5 ns pulse (8MHz square wave)

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As I remember (from reading about the 8k part), is that one port it extra high current:

Is this a "normal" IO or high current?

 

 

One of the reasons I was looking at those parts (but never tried them), was the speed, like a rcall with ret take 3clk where it on a normal avr take 7clk, and MUL only 1 clk

 

Do you have a feeling for how big the gain on a "real" program is ? 

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Hai

Interesting chip and added features than real 328p.
Did you order from Singapore ?

Regards
Tiro

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sparrow2 wrote:

As I remember (from reading about the 8k part), is that one port it extra high current:

Is this a "normal" IO or high current?

 

 

One of the reasons I was looking at those parts (but never tried them), was the speed, like a rcall with ret take 3clk where it on a normal avr take 7clk, and MUL only 1 clk

 

Do you have a feeling for how big the gain on a "real" program is ? 

 

About the current, I'm not sure... there are several series with the AVR clone CPU, that they call LGT8XM core. The high current peripheral doesn't seem to be always present. The chip I have doesn't seem to have it, I'm not sure because the datasheet I have doesn't have electrical characteristics!

Datasheet examples for different series:

Series A and B, have the high current pins: http://www.lgt-semi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LGT8F88AB_databook_v1.1.2.pdf

Series D, has opamps: http://www.lgt-semi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/LGT8FX8D-Series-Databook-v1.0.5.pdf

Series P (the one I have), has math peripheral: already linked in post #2. Note that this link is not from the manufacturer, they don't have the datasheet on their site (weird), and the datasheet is incomplete, like I said, no electrical characteristics.

 

Regarding the performance, I intend to test it eventually. Do you have a suggestion that I could use as benchmark? Also, the model I have (LGT8F328P) has a math peripheral that can do 16x16 bit multiplies to generate a 32 bit result and other operations, like division.

 

Using the math peripheral (with a specialized library), and given that it needs to move data around a lot, because of the limited number of registers and move operations available, I estimate 1/4 to 1/2 the math performance of a Cortex M0 at the same frequency. But normally 8bit MCUs are not used for tasks involving high math performance, right?

 

Edit: This may all seem a bit strange to us, but it looks like their official sales channel is a shop in TaoBao, and I think that is not unusual in China. Here is the link.

Last Edited: Sat. Aug 12, 2017 - 04:07 PM
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Interestingly under "Special processor functions" it shows "SWD Two-line debugging / Mass production interface" not quite DW??

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Edit: This may all seem a bit strange to us, but it looks like their official sales channel is a shop in TaoBao, and I think that is not unusual in China. Here is the link.

 

They sell AU MEGA328P-AU for $0.86 

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China has already made numerous counterfeit (or working clones with low quality). But the only real thing in those clones were the microcontrollers. From now-onward even the MCUs are going to be clones!

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I disagree.   There is excellent technology that comes out of China.    Often far in advance of U.S. or Japan.

 

Atmel produced a pin-compatible 8051 with their AT90S8515.

 

It looks as if the Logic Green Silicon is a pin-compatible ATmegaxx8 with significant 'extras'.

 

There are a whole range of Silicon designed for and used by the Chinese domestic market.

The manufacturers often do not bother to produce English language datasheets.   And do not bother with the non-Chinese market.

 

It is not surprising that a clever Silicon design team can improve on a 20 year old AVR core and peripherals.    CAD tools,  ideas,  fabrication have all advanced over this period.

And Compiler technology has improved too.

 

Just look at Expressif.   ESP8266 and ESP32 have documentation, tools,  and real life modules that are very impressive.

Compare their performance with an AVR.

 

David.

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China also manufactures REAL and high-quality iPhones, PCBs, etc, etc. But I am talking more specifically about the "counterfeit" product market of china. Despite of some added features in their 100% AVR compatible clones, it does not seem that it is any sort of legitimate production without the permission of Atmel and Microchip.

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Why should they have a permission?

Do Atmel(microchip) have one for the 80LP51 ? I don't think so!

 

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There is a big difference between stealing a complete silicon design and a pin-compatible or tool-compatible.
No one ever complains about fab-less startup companies. Plenty of ASICs start this way. And many clever CPU cores and peripheral silicon.
.
Yes, I am always a bit suspicious of cheap electronics on Ebay. Some will be QC rejects. Some are just good marketing. e.g. Arduino clones with genuine ATmega328P but cheaper CH340 USB chips.
.
I have ordered some 328P and a 328D boards. I would like to buy a SWDICE too. But I can't make any sense out of the link in #20.
Google translate works on the home page but not on any 'shopping' page. At least with Firefox.
.
David.

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I use Firefox also, sometimes it helps if you translate Taobao in a "private mode" navigation window. It's strange, like they have some kind of anti-translate protection.

 

Edit: or google translate has some built-in weakness, that only allows some pages to be translated using their browser...

Last Edited: Tue. Aug 15, 2017 - 02:02 PM
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Cyber Freak wrote:

China also manufactures REAL and high-quality iPhones, PCBs, etc, etc. But I am talking more specifically about the "counterfeit" product market of china. Despite of some added features in their 100% AVR compatible clones, it does not seem that it is any sort of legitimate production without the permission of Atmel and Microchip.

 

Creating compatible clones can be done in a perfectly legal way, Western companies do it all the time.  Generally, Western companies prefer to create original designs but that is, more to do with marketing. They want you to think they have some special stuff. If you are only interested in making a thin margin by copying a product, then cloning is very common. Just look at the supermarket brands that are cheaper copies of the originals, often mimicking the shape and style. Smart manufacturers play along, by actually making the copies! e.g. same cereal, different box.

 

What is not allowed :

1) "passing off" - applying someone else's brand and styling

2) trademark violation

3) improperly accessing "trade secrets"

4) patent violation

5) copying software, e.g. that might be in ROM

6) copying "mask works"

 

Low cost economies often start in the counterfeit market, then move to clones, then to original products as their skill bases increase. There are certainly plenty of smart people in China, I've worked with some.

Bob.

Last Edited: Tue. Aug 15, 2017 - 02:49 PM
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El Tangas wrote:

I use Firefox also, sometimes it helps if you translate Taobao in a "private mode" navigation window. It's strange, like they have some kind of anti-translate protection.

 

Edit: or google translate has some built-in weakness, that only allows some pages to be translated using their browser...

 

I have not got anywhere.   If anyone can navigate around this website,  please could they help.

 

AliExpress and other Chinese sites are quite capable of mailing an item to an address in the UK.   

All that they need is : the item,  my postal address and debit card.

 

David.

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In a recent thread, the process of buying on Taobao was somewhat explained. Seems complicated and I've never tried, in fact I think they deliver to the US, but not Europe, so I didn't bother. But maybe they'll deliver to the UK? Who knows.

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Why should they have a permission?  Do Atmel(microchip) have one for the 80LP51 ?

Probably.  My understanding is that one of the reasons that the 8051 architecture has been so successful is that Intel's licensing terms (even back when it was actively licensing the architecture) were extremely reasonable.  No royalties, for example.

 

 

There is a big difference between stealing a complete silicon design and a pin-compatible or tool-compatible.

These chips appear to be a significant re-design of the AVR (16bit ALU, for instance.)  So they're not "stolen silicon."

What they have copied is the basic architecture, instruction set, and basic peripheral operation; things that have always been a pretty gray area.   An instruction set doesn't quite qualify for a patent, nor for copyright protection (although vendors have tried.  and done stuff to avoid "infringing" (thus the z80 has a different set of instruction mnemonics than the 8080.)

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when Atmel made 2051 and 4051 they paid royalties to intel, that was why they started with AVR!

(and could only make  small chips that couldn't replace  "real" 8751).

 

I really think that the LP versions got around that.

 

 

 

 

 

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My TTGO XI boards have arrived !!!

Ordered on 12 Aug.   Delivered on 18 Aug.   This must be the fastest shipment that I have ever received from China.

(I think that I paid $1.50 extra for China Post instead of "Free" delivery)

 

I suppose that I will have  play with them.

 

David.

Last Edited: Fri. Aug 18, 2017 - 02:21 PM
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I soldered the board into a Protoshield.   So I can swap hardware from Uno, Mega, Zero, NUCLEO, ...

First test is to rotate LEDs on D0 - D13.   Worked first time.

However pinMode() does not seem to work on A0 - A5 pins.  i.e. digital mode does not work.

I2C seems to work ok on A4, A5

 

There does not seem to be a separate AVCC pin.   Do I need to connect the SWC, SWD pins?

I presume that AREF already has a 100nF and you do not connect it to power.

 

I am using the Arduino core from https://github.com/wemos/Arduino_XI

 

David.

 

Edit.   Solved it.   lgt8fx8x_init() disables digital with DIDR0 register.   Subsequent pinMode() should enable/disable digital as required.   i.e. needs a patch in wiring_digital.c

Last Edited: Fri. Aug 18, 2017 - 11:22 PM
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This is incredibly interesting. The datasheet is very interesting - on paper it seems to be a powerful, well designed part at an extremely attractive price.

 

Most importantly, the AVR8 ecosystem is growing and it looks like it might become a platform with good 3rd party support, like 8051 and other popular cores. That would be really great news.

 

I had a chat with them on QQ, sadly there is no time frame for getting an English datasheet. I might try to visit them later this year if I end up going over that way on my travels.

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Ah-ha.  I had never associated your user name with being a Chinese speaker.

 

The LGT datasheets seem to have a lot of English headings.  But with blocks of explanation in Chinese.

 

I would guess that LGT could use their original Chinese document to generate an English version with Translation software.

 

Obviously any machine-generated translation produces a "Chinglish" that is not good for Company Reputation.

But from my point of view,   a Chinglish PDF with the correct format  and layout is a lot easier than manually copy-pasting sequences into Google Translate.

 

Various Online websites claim to translate Chinese PDFs while maintaining appearance.   

The "free" sites just crash.    I would be happy to pay $15 for a translation.    Do you know of any sites that actually work?

 

My LGT8F328P boards work pretty well.  

My LGT8F328D board has not arrived yet.

 

You need to download the Ocrobot Software from http://www.ocrobot.com/doku.php?id=download

Run the ocrobot.exe which is an "Arduino IDE".   Then install the LGT board(s) from the Boards Manager.

 

The LGT cores from Ocrobot seem to be up to date.

The core that I had been using from https://github.com/wemos/Arduino_XI is not so good.

 

Bog-standard Arduino sketches work out of the box.    SPI and EEPROM work fine with the supplied classes.

Direct access to AVR SPI or EEPROM registers in a sketch will require editing.

 

David.

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A quality translation is going to cost more than $15... For a document that size you would struggle to find someone to do a bad translation for $15 I think.

 

The problem Chinese companies have is that westerners seem to think all their products are cheap crap. There's a lot of racism, frankly. This creates two problems.

 

First, the Chinese company has to put a lot of effort into building an English web site, getting everything professionally translated and checked, and then providing English speaking support staff with good knowledge and skills. A tiny mistake or bit of odd phrasing gets the whole thing branded "chinglish" and the product a "one hung low" POS. It's not like an English web site where we'd just assume it was a typo or Friday afternoon job, or even a European site where we are more tolerant of imperfections in material translated from German or French.

 

Second, even if they do all that, people assume that the technology is ripped off or stolen or won't be on the market for very long. That's starting to change as people realize that western suppliers with 10+ year guarantees on availability are just reselling Chinese stuff with a massive mark-up.

 

These parts are based on the AVR architecture, but the design is clearly their own from scratch. It would be very interesting to see a de-cap comparison.

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Yes,   I fully understand that a Chinese company would have to employ professional human translators from a reputation point of view.

Yes,   there is a lot of snobbery from the West.     Chinese MCUs and TFT controllers are often more advanced than the Western models.

 

I would be perfectly happy with a machine-generated translation.    I can live with Chinglish.    I would not expect perfection.

Since I am familiar with the ATmega328P,   it is only minor aspects of the LGT chips that I need to study.

 

OTOH,  LGT might not want to sell their chips on the world market.   Or perhaps Western Distributors do not want to handle them.

 

Is my assumption about the PDF correct?   i.e. does it look as if they have prepared the PDF for translation?

 

The LGT chips look very interesting.    They are more advanced than the ATmega328P.    But I am sure that Atmel or any manufacturer could improve any 20 year old MCU design.    Design tools and Fabrication has made great strides in 20 years.

 

David.

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david.prentice wrote:
I would be perfectly happy with a machine-generated translation.
Doesn't Google Translate let you upload PDF to translate? I thought it did.

 

EDIT: tried but I have a corporate firewall in the way :-(

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Doesn't Google Translate let you upload PDF to translate? I thought it did.

Yup, just tried it.  Although the results are not a PDF, but a 'live' HTML page i.e. passages are translated on-the-fly as you scroll, so you can't just save the HTML and read offline unless you scroll through the whole document, although you don't need to wait for the translation to proceed as you scroll.  Once you've scrolled to the end (by mouse, not by keyboard), saving the HTML preserves the translation.  Should take about 5-10 minutes for the 286 pages of this document.  And the formatting is more or less clobbered.

 

Still, worthwhile.

 

Maybe Johan could figure out how to capture the translation more easily?

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Google doesn't work very well with pdfs, in fact it's terrible. The best I could do was convert the datasheet to word format (using some online converter), then translate it partially using word and/or copy paste to google. But it sure is tedious.

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Sure, I didn't mean to accuse anyone of anything, just to be clear.

 

I'm not sure about the PDF. They tend not to translate non-words to Chinese, things like register names and acronyms.

 

It's interesting that they are sticking with Chinese. Japanese engineers tend to prefer English datasheets and having good English skills is essential. But China is much bigger, over a billion people in the home market alone, and they seem happy to stick with Chinese. If anything it gives them a bit of an advantage, since they have all these great parts we can't figure out how to use.

 

PDF translation is tricky. Chinese, like Japanese, is much more compact than English for technical information so translation buggers up all the formatting.

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Well, that was a pain.  I hope it's useful to someone.  You'll almost certainly want to keep the original open for reference to images, layout, etc.

 

 

Attachment(s): 

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Thanks, that's actually quite useful. The uDSC looks very interesting.

 

Atmel Microchip should be working with those guys.

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Joey,

 

I love you.    That is perfectly usable.

 

What was your procedure?

 

Do you fancy doing the LGT8F328D datasheet too?

 

My 328D board arrived this afternoon.   I have just about completed soldering it to a Protoshield with female sockets.  

So I can just plug regular Arduino shields into it.

 

David.

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At the moment, the only way I managed to do it (haven't explored extensively) is through Chromium "Version 60.0.3112.78 (Developer Build) Built on Ubuntu , running on Ubuntu 16.04 (64-bit)".  It doesn't seem to work under Firefox on the same platform.

 

  • I visit https://translate.google.com/?tr=f&hl=en
  • Select 'Chinese'
  • Select the .PDF from my file system
  • Click 'Translate'
  • Wait while it uploads
  • Some more clicking to translate when prompted.
  • The crappy part:  scroll with the mouse wheel all the way to the bottom.  Untranslated phrases are translated on-the-fly.
  • After reaching the bottom, I print to PDF.
  • Job done.

 

If you skip the scrolling step above, the printed PDF (or saved HTML) will not be fully translated.  Took me about 10 minutes with a two-handed wheel scrolling technique.  Keyboard scrolling does not work.

 

I'm sure there's a better/faster way.

 

I can try with the other PDF.  Do you have a link?

 

 

 

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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david.prentice wrote:
My 328D board arrived this afternoon. I have just about completed soldering it to a Protoshield with female sockets. So I can just plug regular Arduino shields into it.

 

I also bought a D series and it also arrived in the afternoon mail. At least I hope it's a D series, because it has no markings... After dinner, I'll solder the headers and connect to a serial/USB adapter to see if I can program it.

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joeymorin wrote:
Maybe Johan could figure out how to capture the translation more easily?

 

Well, you already did the scrolling through and saving so it's not critical anymore, I presume?

 

Still, out of curiosity - Tell me which of the PDFs above you used and if you did "anything special" feeding it to Google Translate, and I'll have a look.

Happy 75th anniversary to one of the best movies ever made! Rick Blane [Bogart]: "Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine."

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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@Joey,

 

The LGT8Fx8D datasheet link is in #18. i.e.   http://www.lgt-semi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/LGT8FX8D-Series-Databook-v1.0.5.pdf

 

A Web Search finds this website: https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/

It promises to translate a PDF and preserve the layout.    However it never seems to work.    But presumably it parses the PDF,   uses Google Translate when it finds Chinese text.    And gives you the translated PDF.

 

I would guess that automating the process would be relatively straightforward.   Of course,  I have never seen the result.

 

David.

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Johan, the PDF I used is linked in #2.  I used the procedure I described in #45.

 

David, I'll give the link in #18 a go when I return this evening (you'll be asleep), and post the results.  However, looks like it's the same datasheet but version 1.0.5 (instead of 1.0.1)...?

 

The one #2 which I did:

http://www.electrodragon.com/w/images/4/47/Lgt8fx8p_databook_v1.0.1.pdf

 

The two in #18:

http://www.lgt-semi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LGT8F88AB_databook_v1.1.2.pdf

http://www.lgt-semi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/LGT8FX8D-Series-Databook-v1.0.5.pdf

 

Oh I see, different series...

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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It's better with a machine translation from a good datasheet, than than an original english datasheet full of errors. devil 

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Meanwhile, I had a look at how Google Translate does PDFs - or rather, I had a look at how it is UI-wise.

 

I see the tediousness of forcing translation by scrolling through, as each screen-ful gets translated on-the-fly/on-demand when it comes into view.

 

This is quite different from getting whole (static!) HTML pages programatically and then extract certin elements from them.

 

The whole process is very likely driven by client-side-scripting (I have not confirmed this, but I see no other possibility with this behaviour of the UI).

 

So, we would need to do something like "injecting" a script that slowly scrolls down. It is unlikely that we can detect when a new "chunk" has been translated and we should do a new scroll. It would probably involve reverse-engineering a lot of client-side scripts, and it might be that Google have been smart enough to obfuscate/minimize their scripts (in fact, I would be surprised if they haven't).

 

I know you tickled me baccause of what I did and am doing with the Tutorials TOC, but that was/is quite different - since it involved some interesting learning experience for me and it was/is nice to have a real-world problem to work with. And, as I said, ithe Tutorials TOC is about static HTML pages, whereas Google Translate is likely script laden and highly dynamic. This Google Translate problem will likely just be a frustrating, very time-consuming, reverse-engineering work. And possibly against  a moving target - scripting stuff on the web is not well known for staying stable over time (or over different browsers, for that matter). In fact quite the opposite. It is sort of in the nature of the problem domain - the "Web 2.0".

 

I'll pass on this one, if you don't mind.

 

Alternative idea: Program a USB-enabled AVR to do a HID keyboard device that sends PgDn every 5 or 10 seconds. Set Google TRanslate to translate the Chinese PDF. Start the device and go make coffee ;-)

Happy 75th anniversary to one of the best movies ever made! Rick Blane [Bogart]: "Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine."

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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