New ATtiny10 - the first ever 6-pin AVR

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I think that all things considered, I would have rather seen the return of the $0.25 AVR price point(any version, any package; to replace the ATtiny11) than the new tiny package...

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I think a two pin package could have some uses, like a floating point processor for a basic stamp :lol:

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

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Microchip Technology Celebrates 5-Year Anniversary of PIC10F 8-bit Microcontrollers (MCUs)
Low-Cost 8-bit MCUs Available in SOT-23 and 2 mm x 3 mm DFN Packages; Continue to Open Doors to Innovative Uses for MCUs
CHANDLER, Ariz., April 15, 2009 [NASDAQ: MCHP]
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2022&mcparam=en540857

Quote:
These MCUs are well suited for a wide variety of applications, such as:
disposable devices (e.g. pregnancy testers, glucose meters, dialysis monitors and drug testers);
logic control (e.g. passive discrete-logic functions such as delays, smart gates, signal conditioning, simple state machines and encoders/decoders);
mechatronics (e.g. smart switches, mode selectors, remote I/Os, timers and LED flashers);
electronic glue (e.g. bug fixes for ASICs or PCBs, signal inversion, timing delays, feature upgrades and late-stage changes).

No sure if it's a coincidence or not, but the Atmel ATtiny10 press release was published April 15, 2009 - the very same day Microchip announced the 5-Year Anniversary of PIC10F: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/corporate/view_detail.asp?ref=&FileName=ATtiny10_4_15.html&SEC_NAME=Product

AndersAnd wrote:
glitch wrote:
Price is already announced at $0.35 in 10K quantities. Only announced package is SOT23-6.

Anywhere to check the 10k price for ATtiny13A and ATtiny25 to compare with ATtiny10 prices?
I believe ATtiny13A is the cheapest AVR with 6 I/O-pins and ATtiny25 the second cheapest.

10k prices for the cheapest PIC10F (which is PIC10F200T-I/OT):
Quote:
All six PIC10F family members feature options with comparators and ADCs, as well as purely digital versions; and all can be purchased today at http://www.microchipdirect.com, starting at $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities.

If you check the Business Account Pricing for +5000 devices of PIC10F200T-I/OT at http://www.microchipdirect.com then the price is $0.41, so I don't know if the claimed $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities is true.

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I'm using a PIC10F for sequencing power supplies.

Leon

Leon Heller
G1HSM

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AndersAnd wrote:
If you check the Business Account Pricing for +5000 devices of PIC10F200T-I/OT at http://www.microchipdirect.com then the price is $0.41, so I don't know if the claimed $0.29 each in 10,000-unit quantities is true.

$0.34 each for 3000 pieces (full reels) at Digikey...
I guess at 10k pieces, you have to start "negotiating."

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Has anyone seen programmers that support the ATtiny10 ? Studio 4 supports it, but says to use the STK600. The STK600 documentation does not show support for the '10. I've posed the question to the FAE if the AVRDragon would support it using an adapter.

No answer yet.
Samples promised next week, programmer is TBD...

$0.29 per 100K units is real.

BB

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Quote:

Has anyone seen programmers that support the ATtiny10 ? Studio 4 supports it, but says to use the STK600. The STK600 documentation does not show support for the '10.

The "other thread" has some info on this.
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=78072&highlight=tiny10
Post what you find out. ;) Inquiring minds want to know.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

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bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

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AndersAnd wrote:
bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

Quote I received was 100,000 - $0.29. 50,000 - $0.315

I think the AFE is stumped on the programmer question... :?

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According to Atmel

Quote:
Volume price for 10k units is $0.35.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

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bb56 wrote:
AndersAnd wrote:
bb56 wrote:
$0.29 per 100K units is real.

You did mean 10k right?

Quote I received was 100,000 - $0.29. 50,000 - $0.315


Oh I see so you are talking about the ATtiny10 pricing.
I mentioned earlier in this topic that the claimed 10k pricing for the cheapest PIC (PIC10F200T-I/OT) is $0.29, so I just assumed you were also talking about this PIC when you mentioned the same price of $0.29.

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Many have been questioning if Atmel already had a big customer who have requested them to make a 6-pin AVR pin compatible to PIC10F2xx. It turns out that customer might be Atmel themselves for their newly aquired Quantum Research QTouch ICs.

I Found this article with an interesting view of why Atmel comes out with a 6-pin AVR pin compatiple to PIC10F2xx.
QT100 is based on a PIC MCU and now Atmel has replaced QT100 with QT100A that and it's very likely the QT100A is in fact a pre-programmed ATtiny10.
Maybe the first ATtiny10 based products are already in the market in the form of Atmel QTouch QT100A.
http://www.atmel.com/pressroom/documents/ATtiny10_ElectronicsWeekly.pdf

Quote:
Six-pin microcontroller runs at up to 12 Mips

Atmel has introduced a 6-pin microcontroller.
The 8bit AVR ATtiny10 has 1kbyte of flash and 32byte of SRAM in a 2x3mm SOT-23 package.
Performance is claimed to be up to 12Mips, and peripherals include an 8bit ADC, an analogue comparator, and a 16-bit timer with PWM.
“The 16-bit timer counter can run two phase and frequency correct PWM outputs,” said Atmel director of product marketing Jukka Eskelinen. “If your
application needs more processing power, lower current consumption, or if you just want a change the ATtiny10 is your solution.”
Atmel is almost five years behind Microchip in offering a 6-pin microcontroller, and has chosen the same pin pattern as Microchip’s PIC10F2xx offerings.
It is possible that Atmel’s acquisition of Hampshire-based touch control firm Quantum Research has something to do with the new product.
Quantum’s chips were re-badged, pre-programmed microcontrollers, initially from Microchip. Its QT100 single channel touch controller is likely based on a member of the PIC12F series.
Quantum appears to have been migrating to Atmel AVR processors even before the buy-out and it is l ikely that Atmel had to develop a 6-pin microcontroller to allow an AVR-based replacement for the QT100 to be introduced - which is now available as the QT100A.
With a 6-pin SOT-23 sized microcontroller already in production for the QT100 replacement, Atmel may have released a user-programmable version as a lowcost way to go head to head with the PIC10Fxx series.

Samples of the ATtiny10 are available now www.atmel.com/tinyAVR

QT100: Single-Channel Touch Sensor IC http://www.qprox.com/products/page-16035/qt100.html

QT100A: New Single-Channel Touch Sensor IC http://www.qprox.com/products/Page-16035/QT100A.html

I wonder if a QT100A (A for AVR?) is in fact just an ATTiny10 and you can reprogram it to use it as a standard ATtiny10. This seems very likely, although the QT100A could also be a custom non re-programmable version of ATtiny10.
The QT100A is already for sale at places like Digi-Key. So if someone has some QT100A at hand they could try to program it as an ATtiny10 - if they can figure out how to program it with the STK600 that is supposed to support programming of QT100A.

The QT100 and QT100A has the same pinouts as PIC10F2xx and ATtiny10:

Some other larger QTouch ICs also happens to have the same pinouts as some AVRs.
E.g. QT1060 has the same pinouts as the 28-pin MLF versions of ATtiny/ATmega 48/88/168/328
Things like GND, VCC, /Reset and I²C are located at the same pins.

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AndersAnd wrote:
http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/cvavr_history.htm
Quote:
CodeVisionAVR Revision History

V2.04.0 Commercial Release

    � fixed: the compiler now generates correct instructions for AVR8L reduced core chips (ATtiny10 and future ATtiny5, ATtiny20 chips) � added the predefined preprocessor macro _AVR8L_CORE_ which specifies that code is generated for the AVR8L reduced core chips
    � added in Project|Configure|C Compiler|Code Generation the option Enable auto Var. Watch in AVR Studio in order to allow watching local automatic variables for AVR8L reduced core chips
    � updated the Help topics: RAM Memory Organization and Register Allocation and Limitations in order to provideadditional information regarding the AVR8L core chips
    � ...

V2.03.9 Commercial Release

    � added support for the ATtiny10 chip in the Compiler, CodeWizardAVR and Programmer � ...
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

Release notes AVR Studio 4.17 (b666) http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/releasenotes_avrstudio417.txt

Quote:
Welcome to AVR Studio 4.17 (07/2009)

Part support

The following (19) new parts have been added to AVR Studio since 4.16 SP1:

- ATtiny4, ATtiny5, ATtiny9, ATtiny87, ATtiny261A, ATtiny861A, ATtiny2313A, ATtiny4313,
ATmega644PA, ATmega16HVB, ATmega16M1, ATmega64M1, ATmega64C1, ATmega8U2, ATmega16U2,
ATmega32U2, ATxmega192D3, AT90SCR100, ATmega128RFA1

I guess ATtiny4, ATtiny5 and ATtiny9 will be cheaper versions of ATtiny10. Maybe without ADC and with less memory.

Another new ATtiny is ATtiny4313, I'm sure this is just a 4kB version of ATtiny2313.

I read somewhere on the internet (can't find it again) that ATmega128RFA1 is a new 2-in-1 chip integration with one of Atmel's wireless frontends on-chip.

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Quote:
Key Parameters:
Flash (Kbytes) 1
SRAM (Bytes) 32

does this mean we only get 32 Bytes to put variables into? Or is this the number of work registers?

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A browse of the data sheet should be interesting and educating for you, Nephazz. :wink:

Generally you can put variables into both work registers and SRAM, so your question is a little odd.

Anyhow, the ATtiny10 is a somewhat odd creature when it comes to AVRs: It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington]

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Quote:

Anyhow, the ATtiny10 is a somewhat odd creature when it comes to AVRs: It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

Nephazz, If you want to "play" then Simulator V2 in 4.17RC2 includes Tiny's 4, 5, 9 and 10. In picking a Tiny4 for simulation the "memory window" admits to 32 bytes of SRAM addressed 0x40..0x5F

 

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clawson wrote:
Nephazz, If you want to "play" then Simulator V2 in 4.17RC2...

Atmel has just released the final build of AVR Studio 4.17 (build 666 :twisted:) 3 days ago, so no reason to go to Atmel's beta SW website to download 4.17RC2 (build665) - unless you fear the number 666.

Software AVR Studio 4.17 (build 666) 7/28/2009 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/tech_doc.asp?doc_id=12246&family_id=607

Release notes AVR Studio 4.17 (b666) 7/28/2009 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/releasenotes_avrstudio417.txt

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I only ever download from the beta_ware page as it does not require re-registration. A bit of a shame that they haven't replaced RC2 there with the "gold" version.

 

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Related to the original thread title, I received notice today of CodeVision support for the ATTINY5. curious, a Google search uncovered this page with mentions of Tiny4 and Tiny9 among others:
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Atmel/Microcontroller/_/N-4294966349%20100185?Ns=Price|0&action=products&cat=1&catalogId=500201&cutTape=&inStock=&langId=-1&proto=&rohs=&sel=M&storeId=500201&topSellers=

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

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ATtiny4, 5, 9 and 10 are also listed at Mouser: http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ATtiny+TSHR

Quote:
ATTINY4-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 512B FLASH 32B SRAM TIMER 12MHz
ATTINY5-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 512B FLASH 32B SRAM ADC 12MHz TIMER
ATTINY9-TSHR Atmel Microcontrollers - AVR 1KB FLASH 32B SRAM ADC TIMER 12MHz

Not sure what the difference between ATtiny9 and ATtiny10 is if ATtiny9 also has ADC like Mouser writes. I might just be a copy/past error though.
ATtiny4 looks like an ATtiny5 without ADC.

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Quote:
It has 16 work registers rather than the usual 32 (R16..R31). In addition to that it has 32 bytes of SRAM.

wow, that's spartan

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It's perfectly fine for the applications the MCUs are intended for.

Even then, 16 general purpose working registers is still a lot to work with. Not too long ago processors didn't have that much, required to shuffle everything to an accumulator and instructions only worked on specific registers.

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jayjay1974 wrote:
It's perfectly fine for the applications the MCUs are intended for.

Even then, 16 general purpose working registers is still a lot to work with. Not too long ago processors didn't have that much, required to shuffle everything to an accumulator and instructions only worked on specific registers.

Yeah, like ix86, freescale HCxx, and I think PICs are that way too.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

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Nephazz wrote:
wow, that's spartan

No, Spartan is an FPGA family made by Xilinx: http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan6/index.htm

Sorry couldn't help it.

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we'r both wrong. He knows what spartan is! click me

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Doc8127 rev B has been issued, titled as ATtiny4/5/9/10 now.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=4558

Table 2-1. Differences between ATtiny4, ATtiny5, ATtiny9 and ATtiny10

Device    Flash      ADC    Signature
------    -----      ---    ---------
ATtiny4   512 bytes  No     0x1E 0x8F 0x0A
ATtiny5   512 bytes  Yes    0x1E 0x8F 0x09
ATtiny9  1024 bytes  No     0x1E 0x90 0x08
ATtiny10 1024 bytes  Yes    0x1E 0x90 0x03

Stan

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AndersAnd wrote:
Looks like Atmel have also planned future ATtiny5 and ATtiny20. Both also based on the AVR8L reduced core like ATtiny10.
Given the names, it's likely the ATtiny5 and ATtiny 20 will just be 0.5 kB and 2 kB versions of the 1 kB ATtiny10.

The datasheet rev. A for ATTtiny20 has just been released.
It's not just a 2 kB version of ATtiny10, but the first 14-pin AVR with TPI-interface and the AVR8L reduced core.

Datasheet - ATtiny20 Preliminary Summary - Rev. A - 2010-03-09 -
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/tech_doc.asp?doc_id=12783&family_id=607

Datasheet - ATtiny20 Preliminary - Rev. A - 2010-03-09 -
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/tech_doc.asp?doc_id=12782&family_id=607

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The schematic for the STK600-ATtiny10 adapter (+ schematics for several other STK600 adapters) has finally been published:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/tech_doc.asp?doc_id=12873&family_id=607

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It took a little while, but the free cookie goes to CPLDCPU!

http://hackaday.com/2014/03/20/usb-on-the-attiny10/

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-- Douglas Adams

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Quote:
It took a little while
4 years! :-)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Slow Poke ;)

I would rather attempt something great and fail, than to attempt nothing and succeed. - Fortune cookie

George Orwell wrote about the future, and people called it fiction.

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When I was a young student, long before the internet or even BBS call-lines, I studied the various data books that could be found in electronic parts shops and libraries.
I remember coming across the Write-Only memory entry in a old well-worn data book. I remember studying it for a very long time, puzzling over the strange numbers, while trying to think of an application that could possibly use such a device.
It never occurred to me until much later that this could be a parody.
The Signetics DataBook also had RAM sections; Fast RAM ICs; and Damn-Fast RAM devices.

I have told people that I've managed to come into possession of a secret Japanese prototype that translates spoken English into Japanese in real-time without any delays. The user just points the remote at the speaker and presses the button. The device creates a 'sonic space' around the user where he can now hear the English speaker speaking in Japanese.
I give the remote to the Doubting Thomas and tell him to just point and press while I'm speaking. When he presses, I switch in mid-sentence to the few rusty old Japanese phrases that I learned long ago in college.
Sometimes their mouths just drop at this miraculous secret advanced technology!

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