Quoth the Raven!

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Hi all,

I got my "ravens couple" yesterday.
After reading some of your posts here i was concerned for its integrity...but everything seems just "peachy" :D
I really loved the "gothic" look on the package...it gives it a nice touch :D
congratiolations to ATMEL.

Bye

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
Quote:

Question, how can I read older mesages in inbox in ravens?

At the top and bottom of every thread page there are page indicators (1, 2, ...) to bring up individual pages.

I think the original poster was wanting to be able to view older messages on the Raven modules rather than on the forums.

As far as I can tell it doesn't appear possible to read any message other than the first one currently--judging by both the menu diagram and repeated joystick pad mashing. :-)

--Phil.

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So, yeah, :-) it turned out despite my late request someone at Atmel smiled on me and this morning a courier unexpectedly turned up at the door with a RZ RAVEN kit--intact speakers and all!

I've been making some notes as I go, here:

http://code.rancidbacon.com/LearningAboutAtmelRZRAVEN

I was interested in seeing what was happening "under the covers" to see how likely Linux functionality might be--it seems at least some of the underlying driver code has a Linux-equivalent. I'm not sure if it would require a source re-compile or whether Wine might handle it--haven't followed that one up yet. Various notes on this topic on the page linked above.

--Phil.

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follower wrote:

I think the original poster [...]

:oops:

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
follower wrote:

I think the original poster [...]

:oops:

I think the original poster had a pair of Ravens, even before the rest of us knew they existed...

follower must be thinking of some other thread...

You can avoid reality, for a while.  But you can't avoid the consequences of reality! - C.W. Livingston

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@follower:

Took a look at your web page regarding the RZRAVEN kit. Excellent initiative.

The debug interface will be default off in the next code release.

You can only run the RZUSBSTICK in either Sniffer or ZigBee cooridnator mode. Two RZUSBSTICKs are required to do both modes at the same time. However, the PC GUI will cope with n instances of the Sniffer. Doing both sniffing/capture and ZigBee coordinator mode at the same time would be ideal, but impossible on the same HW. This is due to the timing in the IEEE 802.15.4/ZigBee standard.

The typos in the GUI will be fixed. Just added a Bugzilla entry.

When the documentation is ready, Atmel will be more than happy to shear this with you. The USB protocol is quite simple and can be implemented on top of libusb.

-fastbakken

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@fastbakken,

I'm quite curious about the hardware. Are they assembled in Norway?

The hardware contains some smd x-tals. They are quite nice. Do you know where to get the Golledge xtals for reasonable prices?

Nick

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Quote:
Doing both sniffing/capture and ZigBee coordinator mode at the same time would be ideal, but impossible on the same HW.
Is there any reason why, when clicking on the "wheels" to start the rf services, 2 instances of the rf services get started at the same time? It seems that 1 is for the coordinator and the other is for the sniffer (it tries to save the file).

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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@nick-123:
The hardware is designed in Norway, and produced by the country to the right of us on the map: Sweeden ;-) . For obtaining crystals from Golledge I only have a Norwegian reference: "http://www.heko.no/". However, they are extremly professional. English is not a problem.

@js:
Well, let's say that the two windows being opened at the moment is a feature that will be "obsoleted" in the next SW release in April. It should simply not happen, easy as that. The FW on the RZUSBSTICK will not handle both sniffing and ZigBee mode at the same time.

-fastbakken

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@fastbakken,

The pcb's are really nice and made with a good quality. Sweden, Nice country. I've been cycling/camping through it a few years back. All the way from The Netherlands.

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Quote:
a feature that will be "obsoleted" in the next SW release in April.
:) ok, I thought I was doing something wrong...which is unthinkable of course.

Will the new version install automatically into the existing "C:\Program Files\Atmel\AVR Tools\AVR Wireless Services\AVRWirelessServices.exe" if it comes in standalone mode? Or do we only get updates with new versions of Studio? (not nice if so)

I have a desktop link to the wireless service so it can start without opening Studio.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Ravens arrived in San Diego, CA a few days ago. The left board speaker was apart and loose in the box. I resoldered the connections , insulated with Kapton tape and re-attached the speaker with Super Glue gel. Before soldering I noticed a burned residue on the solder pads. This could have been an insulating compound to insolate the solder pads from the speaker center in the upper cap. All is well. I love the way they Caw! Caw! when a message arrives.
Thank you very much Magnus and Atmel! :D

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@js:
It will be a standalone installer for intermediate releases. And of course together with AVRStudio when it is released. The release plan for AVRWirelessServices is fairly aggressive since this components is "new" compared to AVRStudio itself.

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@fastbakken,

I'm curious. Atmel gave us a nice gadget. As you are aware, it is not yet usable.
I'm interested in the business side of this deal. What is Atmels strategy with the Raven? What are the goals?

Nick

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My own view is that Atmel know this technology is fantastic. They also understand the enthusiasm of the Freaks community. So why not get a load of these boards out there. Set up a competition and get the community to realise the fantastic potential of wireless. Everybody starts learning how to use them, lots of innovation takes place, lots of marketing happens for the technology and well us Freaks get to enjoy ourselves as well. Once we understand this stuff we will be much happier to implement the Atmel kit rather than a third party variant that we have not used before.

It seems a win win situation for everyone.

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This embedded wireless stuff will get big. In order to become successful in the market share you need a good product and you need mindshare. Atmel thinks that the AVRfreaks community is a good way to get mindshare among the technical people.

That it this time only the Raven hardware is finished is not s big problem. One of the mantras of the open source movement is 'release early and release often', Atmel has understood this very well. Here we are all engineers and we understand the challenges. We are all eager to learn about the technology and to help improving the Raven. There will be lots of interesting projects based on it.

For Atmels business the Raven is a marketing tool. I don't think there will be products with millions of embedded Ravens. But there will be millions of RF230 radio chips / AVR's embedded in products. That's where Atmel's business is.

It's a long therm thing. I remember in the eighties all businesses were buying IBM, because that's what the decision makers knew. In the 90ties is was minicomputers, because that's what universities used for teaching in the eighties. Now its a mix of Windows and Linux, again because that's what the decision makers know.

Markus

Markus

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Thanks for your response fastbakken...

fastbakken wrote:
@follower:
Took a look at your web page regarding the RZRAVEN kit. Excellent initiative.

Cool. I've discovered in the last year or so that documenting in a personal wiki/lab notebook as I go is the best way to keep multiple projects organised and ensure others can benefit from research/code I've produced.

Quote:
The debug interface will be default off in the next code release.

Ideally, I think its state would be preserved across reboots/power-off, I can think of circumstances when debug being on would be preferable.

Quote:
You can only run the RZUSBSTICK in either Sniffer or ZigBee cooridnator mode. Two RZUSBSTICKs are required to do both modes at the same time.

Ah, that's unfortunate but at least it's documented now. (Did Atmel ever consider including two USB sticks in the box? :-) )

Quote:
The typos in the GUI will be fixed. Just added a Bugzilla entry.

Cool. I noticed a few more in the firmware images, but I don't think they're user visible currently.

Quote:
When the documentation is ready, Atmel will be more than happy to shear this with you. The USB protocol is quite simple and can be implemented on top of libusb.

Well... :-)

That was all the prompting I needed to see what I could discover before the documentation is available.

I'm pleased to say I have had success with using the USB dongle on a Mac OS X 10.2 machine running libusb and PyUSB.

I've written Python code that will configure the device as a co-ordinator and enable a Raven remote to connect to the network. The Raven and Host can both send text messages to each other successfully. (I think I've figured out the main parts of the text message packet scheme. :-) )

It's all proof-of-concept level and seems to have some reliability issues--I appear to miss every second message frequently--but hey, it works!

For those who are interested in trying the code on platforms libusb supports, you can find more detail and the code here: http://code.rancidbacon.com/LearningAboutAtmelRZRAVEN#Code4

The demo code configures the dongle and waits for a Raven to connect, then sends it a text message. If the Raven sends a text message to the host its receipt is acknowledged so it is marked as "SENT".

Have fun, I did. :-)

--Phil.

P.S. I, for one, really appreciate Atmel releasing a device that can be used cross-platform so easily. (This is my first time using libusb/PyUSB and USBSnoop to produce code like this.)

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follower wrote:

...
That was all the prompting I needed to see what I could discover before the documentation is available.

I'm pleased to say I have had success with using the USB dongle on a Mac OS X 10.2 machine running libusb and PyUSB.

I've written Python code that will configure the device as a co-ordinator and enable a Raven remote to connect to the network. The Raven and Host can both send text messages to each other successfully. (I think I've figured out the main parts of the text message packet scheme. :-) )

...
--Phil.

Wow Phil - that's great work! Hopefully my kit will arrive in the next few days, and when it does I'll try out your code.

Michael

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Another kit has landed, speakers and all seems intact; will be tested ASAP. Great! Another huge Thanks! to Magnus & Atmel.

/Mathias

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I am impressed with Atmel. The kit looks fantastic, thanks. All in tact. Shame about not being able to sniff the network properly but this kit definately looks great for learning about wireless.

Many thanks

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i have just now recieved my raven and i am jumping with joy..... it has been a long wait for me and i am finally happy that raven has finally flown to my home
its now time to get my hands dirty :lol: 8)

change without any change is no change ;-)

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Thank you atmel.
I think this gadget has great potential.

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I'll have to pass on this one.

JChristoff
Illinois

Last Edited: Fri. Jan 7, 2011 - 02:58 AM
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Yet another pair of Ravens has landed. Thank you very much to Magnus and ATMEL. Both speakers are intact and both Ravens connected to the wireless USB stick/server right out of the box (using the AVRStudio RC1 beta). Very impressive. Now I need to do some 10 pin header converters for JTAGICE MKII.

Internet Port Assignments:

Keyword   Decimal     Description
-------   -------     -----------
munin     4949/tcp    Munin Graphing Framework
munin     4949/udp    Munin Graphing Framework

Is one of the Ravens messing around on the Internet now :)?

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Quote:
Now I need to do some 10 pin header converters for JTAGICE MKII.
Did you look inside the box? Mine was there along with some 0.05 headers...but then again I think they like me at Atmel. :lol:

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I think that package is listed there; JTAG 10 pin converter and four each headers. The headers are intended to be able to reprogram (via JTAG) two of the processors on board. I suspect that the 169 may not be intended to be reprogrammed.

Harvey

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I got the 5 headers and 1 converter. But, 2 processors means at least 2 JTAGICE MKIIs :wink:!

BTW, for AVR processors there are 2 mega1284PVs, 2 mega3290PVs and 1 AT90USB1287. All these processors have mounting points for 10 pin headers. Where did you see a 169?

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Incidentally, am I missing something or is the only way I can fit ISP headers to the Raven boards by turning one of the 10 pin headers into a 6 pin one (and then using the adapter board)?

--Phil.

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I soldered two tiny 10-pin headers into one raven. Reprogrammed it with a Dragon and the adapter board.

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Sorry, thought 169 for LCD controller. I think my impressions are probably still valid, you can reprogram either of the chips, RF controller and main controller, but the LCD controller is not touched. Now what I'm looking for (eventually) are the I/O connections out of the main chip to the rest of the world.

Harvey

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All schematics for the modules are provided in the documentation provided in the Atmel page. There are only two downloads at present but one of them definately has the schematics.

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Quote:
I think my impressions are probably still valid, you can reprogram either of the chips, RF controller and main controller, but the LCD controller is not touched.

Now, I wouldn't put it like that at all but maybe it is the terms.

The Raven board has an AT86RF230 on it. I don't know if that's what you mean by "RF controller" but I'd call that the "RF transceiver" and AFAIK it ain't an AVR and you wouldn't ISP it, though there is an SPI port.

That is shown connected to the mysterious (no datasheets floating about) ATmega1284, a double-644 with a pile of SRAM. That does have an ISP header marked J205 and JTAG header marked J204 on the schematics. I'd call that the "RF controller" myself, assuming it contains the network layers and protocols and the like. But I can certainly see your reasoning since the port pins are broken out to the headers.

Then we find the ATmega3290 that is the LCD controller. It shows JTAG header J301 and ISP header J302 on the schematics. Though the J markings aren't on the board, there is silkscreen for "1284 ISP/JTAG" and "3290 ISP/JTAG". The manual says

Quote:
3.11.1 Programming Interface
Both the ATmega3290P and ATmega1284P can be programmed using either the JTAG or ISP interface. JTAG programming can be facilitated by connecting a JTAG ICE mkII to the 50-mil pin header J301 (ATmega3290P) and J204 (ATmega1284P). A total of 5 50-mil pin headers and one 50-mil to 100-mil converter are supplied with the RZRAVEN kit.
ISP programming can be performed by connecting an ISP enabled AVR programming tool to the pin header J302 (ATmega3290P) and J205 (ATmega1284P). AVR tools like STK500, AVRISP mkII and JTAGICE mkII can be used for this.

...yadda yadda yadda

The interface between the two AVRs is via a USART link.

Now, true enough most of the '3290 centipede's pins are spoken for, but a few "USER_IOn" are brought out to a marked and documented header. My guess is that the flash and SRAM space of the '1284 were needed for Zigbee and buffers and the like, but not many pins are needed to talk to the AT86 and the LCD controller so many of those are brought out to headers for us. And I have no idea what the internal division of "tasks" is, nor the available space and time. [IIRC the guts are supposed to be released soon.] Your quote above seems to imply >>3<< AVRs of some sort. There appear to be two, both fully re-programmable.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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OK, I'll admit to looking at the board once and trying to remember chips. I *think* that the transceiver (as mentioned) is a "no touch". The main controller (1284) is touchable, not sure why the 3290 needs to be changed as a normal matter of course.

So the major thing would be to see the connections (and I haven't looked yet) for I2C out of the 1284, and to see what I'll need (assuming that it's available) to hook into the main programming. I use I2C for all of my processor to processor communications, and that uses a specific message structure.

That's a project for a little later, since I've got some redesign stuff on my plate.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Harvey

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The RZRAVEN schematics are in this PDF:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

Linked from the product page:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/product...

The AT86RF230 transceiver chip has nothing to touch. It has no JTAG, ISP, FLASH or EEPROM. It is run by another processor chip through the SPI interface with a few extra connections (the RF chip is not a general purpose processor chip).

AT86RF230 data sheet:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resourc...

From AVR2016: RZRAVEN Hardware User's Guide:

Table 3-2 ATmega3290PV User IO:
PE3 through PE6 are available as user I/O pins on the 12 pin SIP J401 connector (see table 3-1 Interfaces available on J401). Programming these user I/O pins is as good a reason as any for programming the LCD controller ATmega3290P chip :wink:.

Table 3-3 ATmega1284PV User IO:
Header pin J201-1 PC0 is the TWI SCL.
Header pin J201-2 PC1 is the TWI SDA.
Both SCL and SDA are already connected to the on board serial EEPROM.

For more information about using the header pins, see section 3.12.1 GPIO.

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js wrote:
Quote:
Now I need to do some 10 pin header converters for JTAGICE MKII.
Did you look inside the box? Mine was there along with some 0.05 headers...but then again I think they like me at Atmel. :lol:

Errr ... there were no connectors in my RZ Raven package. Should there have been?

Confused.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Yes, there should have been a pink resealable bag containing headers and an adapter.

- Dean :twisted:

Attachment(s): 

Make Atmel Studio better with my free extensions. Open source and feedback welcome!

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Quote:
Errr ... there were no connectors in my RZ Raven package. Should there have been?

Yes, I got mine today and it had this in a plastic bag exactly as specified:
Quote:
A total of 5 50-mil pin headers and one 50-mil to 100-mil converter are supplied with the RZRAVEN kit.
/Lars
Edit: A bit late, but yes that is what I got also.

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The M1284 has many connections availabla, including I2C/TWI (beware about the I2C memory, mounted to hold ZigBee specific parameters, like SN, adress, and so on, and write protected), USART1, and the full ADC port, among others. Right now, it woul be my primary target for 'transparent Wireless Serial communications'. And I would took M644p as a base, with double Flash and **LOTS** of RAM, that would eventually be eaten by ZigBee.

IMHO, this thigies seem to split user interface/application to the M3290 and RF Controller to the M1284. That would allow to run a full router/coordinator on it (the m1284, I mean), while the M3290 takes care of the rest/application.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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abcminiuser wrote:
Yes, there should have been a pink resealable bag containing headers and an adapter.

- Dean :twisted:

Negative ... no...zilch...missing. Sob, boo hoo. Skulck into corner....

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Quote:

Yes, there should have been a pink resealable bag containing headers and an adapter.

Oh, the irony of it all! An anti-static bag used to hold non-static-affected pieces, but the poor Ravens left unprotected and at the mercy of the shipping procedure.

Lee

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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It's all relative. The entire universe was inside the bags, and only the adaptors outside.

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Quote:
It's all relative. The entire universe was inside the bags, and only the adaptors outside.

Goodness! Nothing like the life threatening experience to make us wax philosophical... :)

Chuck Baird

"I wish I were dumber so I could be more certain about my opinions. It looks fun." -- Scott Adams

http://www.cbaird.org

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I got my Raven yesterday , and the speakers are intact :-)

Thnx Atmel

/Bingo

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got it too, thanks ATMEL

the atmel JTAGICE Mk II is around 400$ here
so looking for JTAGICE Mk II clone to debug it.

any ideas? what? were to buy?

is this one going to work ?
http://cgi.ebay.de/3-3-5V-ATMEL-AVR-JTAG-ICE-programmer-debugger-USB-UART_W0QQitemZ170207536439QQihZ007QQcategoryZ4661QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

thanks

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Quote:

looking for JTAGICE Mk II clone

The JTAGICE mk II is capable of ussing two different debugging protocols: JTAG and debugWire.
The debugWire protocol is proprietary to Atmel, and AFAIK no-one has cracked it.
Ergo: There are no JTAGICE mk II clones.

There are JTAGICE ("mk I") clones with USB though, if that is what you're looking for. Whether they support the AVRs on the Ravens would or should be clear from the clones' documentation.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Johan, since there is also some documentation about Mk I support from AVRStudio, then no need for any 'clones' documentation. It is quite limited, and definitively don't support any uC used with Raven Kit. So we should use a MkII or 'the old way'.

Guillem.
"Common sense is the least common of the senses" Anonymous.

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thanks for the details just saved 80$ for something that will not help me

any ideas where you can find JTAGICE mk II in low price
(lowest as it can get)

here -350$
digi key - 320$ (with out shipping)

even used ones (didn't found any in ebay)

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As the ISP pin's of both micros are brought out to headers you can just use ISP, I think (have not tried myself yet...). ISP has no debug support, but should work fine for flashing.

Your STK500/AVRISP/Other ISP should work.

Markus

Markus

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markus_b,

you are correct. ISP, In System Programmer, is a program upload and download tool only. It can not be used to instrument your code with break points and read back the value of variables. For this you will have to use one of Atmel's emulators, such as the AVR Dragon or JTAG ICE mkII.

-Fastbakken

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