Can't find programmer in atmel studios

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Thanks in advance! I'v trie to do my research before asking stuped shit so I want be spamming the sight down,

but yet agen I have a probarbly quiet dumb question. I just seem to find the AVR so comprehensive​ with a lot of outdated sources.

 

I just got a xplained mega 1284P to rune since i'v previously only had one xplained mega328p available. But I can not seem to find it in atmel stuidos when connecting the usb(the COM port shows),

on the other hand with the atmel ICE there is no problem finding and flashing the card. Annyone got a idea why?

I'v tried reading the getting started manual but it points me to download AVROSP witch by my understanding is a outdated version of the avrdude, that is an outdated version of atmel studios(right?).

So I got the software(Atmel studios), the bootloader is preprogrammed(right?) and the toolchain is buildt in atmel studios. So what am I missing? I't seems like a watherproof setup :P 

 

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I do not own, nor have I used, any MEGA-1248P Xplained board. But from on the product page on the Atmel site it has no debug/programming chip on board. Again, from that product page it seems the 1248 on board comes pre-programmed with a bootloader. Note this passage on the product page:

  • Program the kit via bootloader or an Atmel programmer

So, while your 328 Xplained Mini board has separate programming/debugger hardware on-board, the 1248P Xplained board does not have this.

 

I'm not sure if  "Mini" boards always has programmer/debugger hardware on board, but "Pro" boards do. The 1248P Xplained is neither "Mini" nor "Pro".

 

Re AVROSP, yes it's old. But so is the MEGA-1248P Xplained board.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Last Edited: Mon. Nov 13, 2017 - 11:14 PM
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From the "Getting started..." document for the 1248P Xplained board:

The AVR Open Source Programmer (AVROSP) is an AVR programmer application that offers the possibility to program the Atmel megaAVR devices via a bootloader. It is a command-line tool, using the same syntax as the Atmel STK®500 and the Atmel AVR JTAGICE command-line tools in the Atmel AVR Studio.

So, it might be worth trying to contact the board as if it where an STK-500?

 

Another thread here on AVRfreaks suggests to use either  ATPROGRAM (a command line utility which comes with your Studio installation) or AVRDUDE. It even talks about a tool being available in Studio (Under Tools, Device Programming). The thread is inconclusive as to progress/result of any of these.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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JohanEkdahl wrote:
But from on the product page on the Atmel site
That same product page has a "documents" tab. I haven't looked but is it really the case that neither of these PDFs tell you how to use the thing??

 

EDIT: OK the details are in the second PDF - the whole of chapter 5. The core of the whole thing is point 7 at the top of page 8:

 

 

BTW I find it intriguing that the manual is about 1284 but in that command they are using -dATmega128

Last Edited: Tue. Nov 14, 2017 - 02:45 PM
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Oletl wrote:
download AVROSP witch by my understanding is a outdated version of the avrdude,
Just noticed this in #1

 

Er no AVROSP is a program "like" avrdude (they can both do AVR programming) but in no sense is it an "outdated version of the avrdude". The latter is a completely separate dvelopment and far more extensive in its capabilities (in fact it can probably emulate the same functionality as AVROSP)

 

Oh and I'm intrigued that the manual talks about AS4 not AS7. Don't Atmel ever consider updating "current" products?

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@cliff: You are correct re instructions, at least for AVROSP. The Getting Started document (AVR370) has (short) instructions for programming via the bootloader using AVROSP.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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Thanks for all the help then Johan :)

 

I'v just got one follow upp question based on a consept it seems i'v proberbly misunderstood. 

So whats the point with a preprogrammed boothloader i'f there is no debugger?

I cant seem to be able to programme through the usb since there is no debugger, and

so i'l have to use my atmel ice witch then got a debugger and a hardware boothloader to convert the signal from usb to something(proberbly something wrong already).

Is it only studios that demands a debugger or? I't just seems som useless to install the boothloader and even have a usb connection if I cant use it(probarbly just with my setup). 

 

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Something has been thoroughly misunderstood here.

The point with a bootloader is exactly the ability to update firmware WITHOUT any extra hardware like a programmer or a debugger.

With a bootloader in the AVR on your board you should be able to connect it to your PC and using AVROSP, and nothing else, program the flash of the AVR.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

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There are at least two possible bootloader scenarios that need to be considered.

 

The first is for code development. The lack of debugging is why Arduino has DebugPrint() or what ever it is called. Developers sprinkle these liberally throughout code just because there is no good way to do conventional debugging. In many ways, this is a regression, but it is simple, cheap, and it usually can be made to work. 

 

The other is in production. A bootloader can make code installation simple. You should rarely need a debugger in production so the lack of one here is not such a big deal. It does imply the presence of a serial port of some kind (usually). These days, the preference tends to be USB and if the device would not otherwise need USB, it might be an expensive choice.

 

Using a bootloader does not preclude the use of a debugger. It just becomes more awkward because now, two connections are needed. And, most debuggers will also program, so why bother with the bootloader if you have a debugger port? And, if you have to have that bootload port for other reasons (as a serial port, lets say), then at least half of the debugger function is redundant. 

 

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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Was on the PAD, now on the PC so can be more elaborate

Oletl wrote:

So whats the point with a preprogrammed boothloader i'f there is no debugger?

To program an application into the AVR without the need for a separate debugger or programmer.

 

Oletl wrote:

I cant seem to be able to programme through the usb since there is no debugger

Then something is wrong. It could be

- the bootloader has been erased from the AVR (see below)

- your wiring/cable-connection is wrong

- your use of OSBASP is wrong

  ...

 

 

Oletl wrote:

so i'l have to use my atmel ice

If you've used your Atmel ICE to program the AVR then, with a very high likelihood,  you've erased the bootloader from the AVR.

 

The bootloader is  a small(ish) AVR program that sits in a special area of the AVR flash, reads from some interface like serial or USB and writes to the application part of the flash memory. The data is fed onto that interface and the bootloader by some external mechanism - most often a program on a development PC tht sends data out it's COM or USB port.

 

If you use an Atmel ICE (or any other programmer/debugger) to program the AVR it will start out with a chip erase, including the bootloader being erased. If you want to use a bootloader you will now have to restore it, and a few fuse values, using your hardware programmer. Instructions on where to find the bootloader code is in the "Getting Started" manual for the board.

 

Oletl wrote:

Is it only studios that demands a debugger or?

Studios does not demand a debugger. They are one option to be used with Studio.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Last Edited: Wed. Nov 15, 2017 - 08:14 AM
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If you have an ICE why are you worrying about any of this? You don't need a bootloader as you can deliver code to the chip over JTAG or ISP and equally if you want to debug it you make a direct ICE connection to its JTAG. So the board itself does not need a debugger interface chip because that's exactly what's inside your Atmel-ICE.

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From what I gathered, AVROSP doesn't even work properly anymore, because Atmel changed the structure of the XML part definition files for AS6 and AS7, which contain information AVROSP needs (similar to avrdude.conf for avrdude).