Non-AVR and, in particular, non-Atmel Arduino Cores.

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#1
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The vast majority of Arduinos are AVR-based.

 

But not all of them.

 

And some of them are not even Atmel (or Microchip) at all; eg, https://community.st.com/community/stm32-community/blog/2017/07/13/stm32-cores-enabled-in-arduino-ide

 

So - are these still on-topic for this forum?

 

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There are genuine Arduino boards with Intel microcontrollers but most are Atmel.

 

There are Arduino Cores for many different microcontrollers.    ESP8266, ESP32 and STM32 are particularly attractive.

 

Questions on these third-party boards are best put on the Arduino.cc Forum.

 

But I don't see any great problem with generic questions on the Off-Topic department of this Forum.    It probably depends on what mood the Moderators are in.

 

I doubt if Atmel/Microchip want to promote competitor's chips.  Espressif is a different market.  STM32 is a direct competitor to the SAM devices.    I know nothing about Intel.

 

David.

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david.prentice wrote:
But I don't see any great problem with generic questions on the Off-Topic department of this Forum.

 

Usually when one asks about a non AVR based device they get thrashed before one of the mods closes the thread regardless of what forum the thread is posted in.

 

david.prentice wrote:
It probably depends on what mood the Moderators are in.

Um, no.  Generally speaking if someone asks for help on a competitors device they are 'recommended' to go to that vendors site.  Usually with a link to the help community.  I know that in some cases like a Proteus question it's got something to do with an AVR so it gets some thread time.  Same thing with Codevision, IAR, and ICC questions a well.

 

Jim

If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue! - Kartman

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user

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I wrote:
 this forum

david.prentice wrote:
the Off-Topic department of this Forum.

 

There seems to be some confusion over the meaning of, "this forum"

 

When I said, "this forum", I meant the section of AVRFreaks called "Arduino" - which is distinct from the section of AVRFreaks called "Off-Topic".

 

I emphasised STM32 in particular precisely because it is a direct competitor.

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jgmdesign wrote:
Generally speaking if someone asks for help on a competitors device they are 'recommended' to go to that vendors site

Indeed - and rightly so.

 

But now we have this section called "Arduino", and Arduino could be a competitor's  device: so would it be allowed as an Arduino question, or rejected as a competitor-device question?

 

David's suggestion makes sense:

  • if it is purely an Arduino question - not specific to the particular core at all - it should go to Arduino's own forum;
  • if it is something specific to the (competitor's) core - it should go to the competitor's website.
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It is the Evaluation and Development Kits the right place where to help people with the competitor's products ?

 

Like in this case ? 

 

http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/f... 106 posts so far.

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awneil wrote:
if it is something specific to the (competitor's) core - it should go to the competitor's website.

I would agree with this, if it weren't for one sticky area....

 

We get the thread where the OP is doing Arduino to Arduino communications.  Mostly its AVR to AVR so no big deal.  What happens when the OP is trying to get an AVR to talk to an STM device?  Sure we can say that we will help with the AVR and tell the OP to go to STM's site for help, but with the wealth of talent here who know both it would lower the post counter to simply solve the problem in one fell swing here.  I would rather help out with a competitors part in this scenario, than have to deal with a 100+ post thread that is nothing but confusion and hostility....Thats just me though.

 

I suppose in cases like that it would be handled on a thread by thread basis.

 

Jim

If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue! - Kartman

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user

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angelu wrote:
It is the Evaluation and Development Kits the right place where to help people with the competitor's products ?

No.

The right place for support on competitor's products is the competitor's own website/forum

 

Like in this case ? 

 

http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/f... 106 posts so far.

I guess that one's a "special case" - because it is an "AVR"

 

And note both the title of the thread, and the tone of the OP

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jgmdesign wrote:
What happens when the OP is trying to get an AVR to talk to [a competitor's] device? 

Indeed, that gets a more tricky.

 

But it would naturally be that the main focus of the help here would be on the AVR side - after all, the AVR neither knows nor cares the identity of what it's dealing with. Likewise the other device.

 

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awneil wrote:
But it would naturally be that the main focus of the help here would be on the AVR side - after all, the AVR neither knows nor cares the identity of what it's dealing with. Likewise the other device.

 

Agreed, but as I said, should a Freak have knowledge of the 'other' device and sees the problem I for one would hope that they speak up and type something so the thread does not drag into the hostile abyss.  Thats all I am trying to explain.

 

JIm

If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue! - Kartman

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user

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There are Arduino Cores for many different microcontrollers.    ESP8266, ESP32 and STM32 are particularly attractive.

Questions on these third-party boards are best put on the Arduino.cc Forum.

 Maybe.  I've been mildly amused by the flurry of ESP8266 questions on the Arduino forums, considering that Arduino does not have an ESP8266-based product.

So far, such queries have gotten more actual replies than "go away, it's not really an arduino" replies.

Here, Atmel takes a somewhat more active role, and I suspect the "go away" response might happen more.

 

(Hmm.  What about the PIC32 Arduinos arduino-like boards, now that Atmel is owned by Microchip?!)

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Andy can you point me to a thread in this Arduino forum that has asked about one that was not AVR based?

 

Unless I've missed it I haven't seen one so far.

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FAQ#6: Larry can check out any time he wants, but he can never leave.

 

Oh my, how I've missed these spirited debates.

 

 

 

 

 

"When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive: to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." - Marcus Aurelius               

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clawson wrote:
Andy can you point me to a thread in this Arduino forum that has asked about one that was not AVR based?

No - it is a hypothetical question.

 

It was triggered by seeing the linked "STM32 Now Available As Arduino" post on the ST site:

 

https://community.st.com/communi...

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And now you have just promoted a link to an Atmel competitor?!?

 

What EXACTLY is the intention here?

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See the OP:

 

The title of this forum (ie, this section of AVRFreaks) is "Arduino".

 

So people are going to come here with Arduino questions, which are not necessarily AVR-related - nor even Atmel/Microchip related.

 

So the (hypothetical) question was: are such questions on-topic for this forum (ie, for this section of AVRFreaks)?

 

It is just a question.

 

As I said in #5, David's answer seems a good one - it basically boils down to, "No."

 

I sense your answer is also, "No." ... ?

 

That makes sense to me.

 

EDIT

 

So maybe the title of this forum should be changed to "Arduino (AVR-related)" ?

Last Edited: Fri. Oct 27, 2017 - 09:54 AM
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Personally I don't give a hoot about the "competitor" talk.

I started 15 or 20 years or so ago with PIC16F84, didn't like assembly and bought some AT90S2313's mainly because it had support from GCC.

 

As far as I know AVRfreaks started as an independent forum ( might be wrong here) and over the years it got more and more sponsored by Atmel and for the personal messages I even have to log in twice now (community.atmel.com?).

 

When I'm in the mood to put some energy in AVRfreaks I will answer any question I believe I have something usefull to add to.

(About 1100 by now).

I do not make any distinction between the sub forums, I'll leave that to the moderators.

I'm just an independent donating some time to help (mostly) newbies.

 

But why is there an "arduino" sub forum here anyway?

"arduino" has had it's own forum from the start. Why not leave it there?

Personally I also pretty much dislike the "arduino" philosophy, but that's another discussion.

Paul van der Hoeven.
Bunch of old projects with AVR's:
http://www.hoevendesign.com

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Paulvdh wrote:
Personally I don't give a hoot about the "competitor" talk.
You're not the one paying to run this website - Microchip are. When it was Atmel then clearly promotional talk about competitors might lead someone deciding on chips to use to go for STM or NXP or even Microchip, to the detriment of Atmel's bottom line. Now it's the combined Microchip+Atmel so anything from that conglomerate is fair game but mentions of anything else should not be encouraged as it's against the owner's interest.

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I don't think there is much of a problem in answering Arduino questions.

 

We tend to get the "more technical" Arduino questions here.    We can either answer them here or point to a more appropriate website.

 

Arduino.cc does have several Forum Topics.   If you choose the appropriate Topic,   you should get good replies.

AvrFreaks has less traffic.   So members tend to follow "all" on AvrFreaks.    I only look at "Displays", "Zero", "Due" on Arduino.cc

 

Incidentally,  arduino.cc seems to have been "designed" rather than "thrown together"

 

David.

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@ Clawson #18

Unfortunately true.

Over the last 10 years or so the part of internet of "people helping people" has ben almost completely pushed aside by biased info from big companies  and big money.

 

Paul van der Hoeven.
Bunch of old projects with AVR's:
http://www.hoevendesign.com

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"Freaks" is a "marketing tool" for Atmel/(Microchip). I know they aren't seen to pour MUCH money into the maintenance of this site but I'll bet what they do contribute comes out of marketing budgets as this helps to sell their chips.

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Sure, but Microchip has a much wider portfolio than Atmel. For example, do we now have to be careful talking about some opamp or ADC from Analog Devices or TI because Microchip makes ADCs and opamps?

In this situation, I would probably mention the Microchip product along the other one just to be safe.

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david.prentice wrote:
We tend to get the "more technical" Arduino questions here. 

Which tends to be because they are more closely related to the underlying hardware.

 

I guess this Arduino forum originally became part of AVRFreaks because, originally, Arduino == AVR - but, as noted, that no longer holds.

 

Hence the question for the increasing cases where Ardduino != AVR and, in fact, Arduino != Atmel/Microchip.

 

 

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clawson wrote:

Paulvdh wrote:
Personally I don't give a hoot about the "competitor" talk.
You're not the one paying to run this website - Microchip are. When it was Atmel then clearly promotional talk about competitors might lead someone deciding on chips to use to go for STM or NXP or even Microchip, to the detriment of Atmel's bottom line. Now it's the combined Microchip+Atmel so anything from that conglomerate is fair game but mentions of anything else should not be encouraged as it's against the owner's interest.

 

I am sure that "common sense" will prevail.   I would not encourage promotion of a competitor but there is no harm in giving honest replies to straightforward questions.

 

David.

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Paulvdh wrote:
far as I know AVRfreaks started as an independent forum ( might be wrong here)

 

As far as I know: Yes.. On the latter. I.e. you're wrong. ;-)

 

If my memory serves me it 'freaks was started by an enthusiastic co-worker inside Atmel Norway. At the start it was a bit unclear to many (all?) who actually ran the server, but it quickly became common knowledge that it was Atmel that ran the site. Again, if my memory serves me.

"He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack, or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track. Oh the engineers would see him sitting in the shade, Strumming with the rhythm that the drivers made. People passing by, they would stop and say, "Oh, my, what that little country boy could play!" [Chuck Berry]

 

"Some questions have no answers."[C Baird] "There comes a point where the spoon-feeding has to stop and the independent thinking has to start." [C Lawson] "There are always ways to disagree, without being disagreeable."[E Weddington] "Words represent concepts. Use the wrong words, communicate the wrong concept." [J Morin] "Persistence only goes so far if you set yourself up for failure." [Kartman]

Last Edited: Fri. Oct 27, 2017 - 08:58 PM
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Does this Thread serve a purpose?

Its about a hypothetical situation that hasn't even presented itself.

 

Seems to me that the Moderators do a pretty good job of deciding what's reasonable and what isn't.

On rare occasion a corporate employee has stepped in to either answer a question, or shut down a Thread.

 

If Mircochip doesn't want to see Arduino traffic on AVRFreaks they can remove the Arduino sub-Forum.

 

Otherwise, from a global perspective, promoting solutions to Arduino questions is overall beneficial to Microchip, both directly and indirectly,  (regardless of the core).

 

JC

 

Edit: Typo

 

 

 

Last Edited: Sat. Oct 28, 2017 - 01:36 AM
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So people are going to come here with Arduino questions [for non-AVR arduinos]

It hasn't happened yet.  And it WAS Atmel that created the somewhat-ambiguous forum topic (although that was back when there were fewer non-AVR arduino-like boards.)

 

You can also ask "what are we going to do with all the Arduino Due (SAM3X) and Arduino Zero (SAMD21) questions? (and why doesn't the Atmel SMART community have an Arduino sub forum?)"

 

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Oh my, how I've missed these spirited debates.

Lawrence!  You're alive!

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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I imagine Microchip either have, or are in the process of, buying up all these other companies anyway. So the problem will go away given time.

 

One of my clients has always referred to any single chip micro as a PIC. Since most of my projects for him have been implemented on AVRs, I don't even bother to correct him any more.

 

Quebracho seems to be the hardest wood.

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DocJC wrote:
Does this Thread serve a purpose?

Baden Powell wrote:
Be Prepared.

 

But, really, it was just a thought that occurred to me - so I thought I'd see what others thought.

 

This is, after all, a discussion forum ...