More small and powerful than Attiny85.

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Hello! I'm trying to find the smallest 8-bit MCU on the market. I take as reference the wonderful Attiny85 because it is a good starting point in relation to size and power, but it really does not matter too much the brand or the seller, nor the price.
I only care about size. :)
Thank you!

Nazim Moises

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 29, 2017 - 04:40 PM
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Why not the tiny85 in a QFN package? Only 4mm x 4mm.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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smallest in what way?   physical size, rom, ram or # of bits in op code, price? ???

 

 

Jim

 

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Just to be clear: we are talking about package physical dimensions here - yes?

 

The smallest ATtiny25/45/85 package is the  20-pad QFN/MLF - 4mm square.

 

How much smaller do you need to go ... ?

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Or the tiny20 is a 12-ball BGA at just 1.55mm x 1.403mm.

 

To the OP, go to the Digikey website and all your answers are there for you to explore yourself.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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Or a tiny10 is a 6 pin sot-23 package....
 

 

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ki0bk wrote:
6 pin sot-23 

is 2.9 x 2.8 mm

 

EDIT

 

Or the  8-pad UDFN is 2mm square - so Brian still wins

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 29, 2017 - 02:25 PM
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nazimba wrote:
good starting point in relation to size and power
Tell us more about how you define "power". Is that just plain out MIPS or MIPS/W or something else?

 

As this is an Atmel board I shouldn't really mention competitors but there is at least one manufacture who had a Cortex M0+ (32 bit CPU) in an 8 pin DIP doing 30MHz with 4K flash an 1K RAM that is likely still available some places.

 

I imagine a google for "8pin DIP Cortex" might prove interesting. Perhaps others have 8 pin devices? Clearly a 32bit micro with a faster clock speed will out perform an 8bit micro in terms of raw "power".

 

If it's just about size then if you are up for it a lot of devices are available in BGA with package sizes a lot smaller than an 8pin DIP. Many will have very "powerful" 32 bit CPUs.

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Perhaps we need a new measure of uC 'bestness'....MIPS/mm2? Or for the benchmark freaks...Drystones/mm2.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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nazimba wrote:
... smallest ... size ... I only care about size

clawson wrote:
8 pin DIP 

laugh laugh laugh 

 

Smallest size so far is tiny20 in a 12-ball BGA at just 1.55mm x 1.403mm - from Brian

 

The ATtiny25/45/85 datasheet gives the 8-pin DIP size as 0.365 x 0.31 inches !

 

laugh

 

So that's 9.3 x 7.9 mm in new money - You could fit half a dozen of the little BGAs in that space!

 

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Of course you could just do the old Ford XR3i trick. Stick some "go faster stripes" on your existing micro and bathe in the mistaken belief that the stripes make the thing faster (well it worked for XR3i's anyway!)

 

Imagine, for example, how fast this must go...

 

http://www.barryboys.co.uk/photos11/fluffybhf4.jpg

 

Therefore:

 

cheeky

 

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But the OP was specifically after small size - and those DIP chips are huge:

 

Image result for coffee table 555 timer ic Image result for coffee table 555 timer ic Image result for coffee table 555 timer ic

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 29, 2017 - 05:00 PM
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The biggest DIPs around here are some of the previous posters...wink

David (aka frog_jr)

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... and tiny1617 in QFN 24 pins at 4mm * 4mm.

 

http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/attiny1617

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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THere's also a 20-pin VQFN at 3x3 mm

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Do you count just the body or the occupied board area (including pins and pads)? For example, SOT23 has a fairly small body but the pin envelope is relatively (to the body) huge. 

 

If its occupied board area, then it "has to be" BGA.

 

Jim

Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics, Consulting Div. Tangent, OR, USA http://www.orelectronics.net

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ka7ehk wrote:
Do you count just the body or the occupied board area 

I quoted the size over the pins in #7

 

body size alone seems a pointless measure

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We've been on these hunts before, for the "best" of a certain characteristic.

 

In this case it is size.  "Size matters", according to identical topic in 2010:

http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/w...

 

And OP hasn't seen fit to add clarification.  If one buys enough, aren't the "chip scale" or "die scale" or equivalent packages also available?

 

 

Brian Fairchild wrote:
To the OP, go to the Digikey website and all your answers are there for you to explore yourself.

Hmmm--under a gross "microcontroller" search, I see "package" but not "size" columns...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
aren't the "chip scale" or "die scale" or equivalent packages also available?

e.g.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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WLCSP:

http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc42007.pdf

 

 

 

MCU devices which are available as WLCSP (according to the Atmel Product finder):

  • ATSAM4LC4B
  • ATSAM4LC8B
  • ATSAM4S8B
  • ATSAMD20G17
  • ATSAMG51
  • ATSAMG53
  • ATSAMG54
  • ATSAMG55
  • ATSAML21J18B
  • ATtiny20

 

The ATtiny WLCSP is 12-ball, 1.540x1.388mm, 0.433 mm thick, with 0.40 mm pitch in a 3x4 staggered array.

 

But out of that list, the fastest (arguably) are the ATSAM4S8B and ATSAMG55, at 120 MHz with 512kB flash and either 128kB (4S8B) or 176 kB (G55) of SRAM.  Each has a different complement of peripherals.

In WLCSP, the ATSAM4S8B is 4.42 x 3.42 mm, and the ATSAMG55 is 2.84 x 2.84 mm.

 

Many AVR are also available in wafer form, which is of course not the same as WLCP, and generally not for small-scale production.

 

 

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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Anyone hear from the OP since post #1 ?

Jim

If you want a career with a known path - become an undertaker. Dead people don't sue! - Kartman

Please Read: Code-of-Conduct

Atmel Studio6.2/AS7, DipTrace, Quartus, MPLAB user

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I hasn't even been 8 hours since the OP.  Not everyone is glued to 'Freaks like we are ;-)

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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frog_jr wrote:

The biggest DIPs around here are some of the previous posters...wink

 

Hey! I represent that remark!

274,207,281-1 The largest known Mersenne Prime

Measure twice, cry, go back to the hardware store

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And nazimba dropped a few nonsensical lines, then went awaaay... one day and 24 posts agoooo. Nothing new under the sun!
Just saying...