Bend the PCB

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#1
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Hai all

 

In tropic countries trees grow every years compared at Subtropics which had seasons that made tress "stop tp grow".

Here Bamboos growth very well.

 

Using bamboos with head plastic hand spray as dop for "box or casing" made low cost investment.

 

Could I ask questions?

How to bend the pcb plate ? which tools that I must used ?

 

any info very appreciated.

 

pcb plate

became this form..

bent pcb

Regards

Tiro

This topic has a solution.
Last Edited: Sat. Apr 29, 2017 - 09:42 AM
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From pcb plate to half circle of less

 

Tiro

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One way is by 0.125mm thick fiberglass composite :

PCB "Fab-In-A-Box" ... The 8min circuit board system

Flexible PCB

http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/flex_pc_board.html

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Just google flexible pcb.

274,207,281-1 The largest known Mersenne Prime

Measure twice, cry, go back to the hardware store

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More specifically helpful (I just ordered boards from them, although mine aren't supposed to be flexible (I guess one could flex them, if you tried hard enough... (once))).

 

https://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/in...

 

Have fun,

 

S,

 

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A local PCB fab's flex product :

http://dragoncircuits.com/products/flex/

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Vinyl is mentioned for an inexpensive prototype flex printed circuit :

Adafruit Industries – Makers, hackers, artists, designers and engineers!

Making a Flexible PCB with Pyralux #WearableWednesday

by Pat Starace

https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/02/11/making-a-flexible-pcb-with-pyralux-wearablewednesday/

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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There are some PCB printers though the price is such would be more likely at a makerspace.

BotFactory Squink can print onto transparency film in addition to Kapton (10mil (0.25mm) width, 10mil (0.25mm) gap) :

https://www.botfactory.co/

via

http://www.edn.com/electronics-products/other/4443097/Desktop-PCB-startup-on-track

 

Edit : spec

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Thu. Mar 30, 2017 - 07:00 AM
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Nice info.

If there's cheap bend pcb plate then will order after budget ready.

Regards
Turo

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Hai Again..

What I'm looking from plate pcb to half circle pcb.

Many Thanks

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No - you can't do that.

 

Standard "plate" PCB material is not flexible - you cannot bend it.

 

That's why "flexible PCB" is a distinct material & distinct process.

 

I guess you might fight find places that can make curved laminate; but that would be a specialist process and, therefore, expensive.

 

Try googling, "curved PCB" ...

 

Rather than have a single curved PCB, you could make a number of flat PCBs into a "polygon" ...

 

Or just put a flat PCB across the diameter of the tube - rather than curved around the edge?

 

 

Last Edited: Fri. Mar 31, 2017 - 10:04 AM
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Thanks For Info.

What I needed was curved PCB plate.

Regards
Tiro

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Can you get curved components?

pragmatic - dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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What about pick and place machine or soldering system for curved PCB?
 

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Will the PCB be "flexed" while in use, or do you only need it be curved (non-flexable)? 

Will the components be mounted on the inside curve or the outside of the pcb? 

Jim

 

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Hai

All

 

I tried with low cost PCB plate here(the thin one).

Unfortunedly couldn't bend.

 

Regards

Tiro

 

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I wrote:
Rather than have a single curved PCB, you could make a number of flat PCBs into a "polygon" ...

 

Or just put a flat PCB across the diameter of the tube - rather than curved around the edge?

 

Or just do something like this:

 

Image result for pcb in curved case

Image result for pcb in cylindrical case

Image result for pcb in cylindrical case

 

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The OP wants to make enclosures from bamboo, because it is cheap. However, trying to bend PCBs to fit in a curved box is futile and never going to work.

 

A practical approach is to make the bamboo fit the PCB, there is no reason a bamboo box has to be curved, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bamboo+box

 

One of many examples :

Bob.

Last Edited: Mon. Apr 24, 2017 - 10:29 AM
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donotdespisethesnake wrote:
trying to bend PCBs to fit in a curved box is futile and never going to work.

"Never" is a very long time - but it is certainly going to defeat the object of being cheap!!

 

Hence I gave some examples of fitting flat PCBs into curved boxes

 

A practical approach is to make the bamboo fit the PCB, there is no reason a bamboo box has to be curved

Very true - though there will be additional cost in making the box...

 

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Hai All
Thanks for comments

According the marketing,they massaged me that their pcb able to bend.

Regards
Tiro

Attachment(s): 

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That datasheet says "rigid laminate". Rigid means cannot be bent.

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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valusoft wrote:

That datasheet says "rigid laminate". Rigid means cannot be bent.

 

Oh, it can be bent.  Once. 

 

More helpfully, I think what the OP really wants is lots of skinny PCBs and a box of ribbon cable to connect them together. 

 

S.

 

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valusoft wrote:

That datasheet says "rigid laminate". Rigid means cannot be bent.

 

And the datasheet even, helpfully, tells you how much it can't be bent.

pragmatic - dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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Scroungre wrote:
I think what the OP really wants is lots of skinny PCBs and a box of ribbon cable to connect them together.

Yes - that's what I was getting at with:

Rather than have a single curved PCB, you could make a number of flat PCBs into a "polygon" ...

But I couldn't find any example pictures

 

 

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I've got some very thin FR4 copper-clad material ( http://www.goldmine-elec-product... ) that can easily be bent to a 2 cm radius or smaller.  That was sort of of my intent when I got it.   Then I realized that mounting rigid components on a flexible PCB was going to be a problem, and that if I really wanted a small cylinder, that would probably mean adjusting the footprints of the integrated circuits and so on as well, and that it likely wouldn't be very "robust", so I pretty much gave up on the idea.

 

Thin material like this is actually pretty common - it's laminated together to make up PCBs with more than 2 layers, but finding it in "personal" quantities might be difficult.

 

There's also a bunch of teflon-cored high-frequency PCB material that is flexible even at larger thicknesses.   It tends to be Very Expensive unless you find it surplus (and it's not nearly as common.)

 

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Even more helpfully, I decided that given bamboo as a structural material, the OP is unlikely to be in the USA, and while there certainly is bamboo in Myanmar, and possibly in Liberia, I'm going to go with the metric system for this...

 

It would be easy for me to put an AVR, even a DIP version, including crystal and support circuitry, onto a PCB ~1cm wide.  Say 10cm long.  Put the other stuff on another long skinny board.  For getting all the signals from A to B, I suggested ribbon cable.  If the number of wires seems daunting, you may have heard of (if not, let me introduce you to!) Insulation-displacement connectors, by which you can make cables of lots and lots of wires for not much effort.  They do need proper crimping (I use a bench vise - crunching by hand will only work if you're a Terminator) but when done right you can get up to 60 signals in one cable for just a couple of crunches.

 

Have fun,

S.

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And if you bend a regular PCB into a tight curve how do the tracks behave when one side is on compression and the other in tension?

pragmatic - dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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Scroungre wrote:
ribbon cable to connect them together.

Something like this:

Image result for flat pcbs in cylinder

Image result for flat pcbs on curved surface

 

 

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Brian Fairchild wrote:

And if you bend a regular PCB into a tight curve how do the tracks behave when one side is on compression and the other in tension?

 

Badly.  But copper is one of the more elastic metals out there, and to a point I suspect it could tolerate it.  Lord help your components, tho...

(cf. westfw)

 

S.

 

Edited because I'm a moron  S.

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 27, 2017 - 07:51 AM
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Scroungre wrote:
If the number of wires seems daunting, you may have heard of (if not, let me introduce you to!) Insulation-displacement connectors,

You don't actually need connectors at all: you can get ribbon "jumpers" that just solder straight in - as shown in #28

 

Image result for ribbon cable jumper

 

Also, when making "flexi" PCBs, it's not uncommon to have "stiffeners" in the part where the components are mounted - so that it only really flexes in the parts not populated with components.

 

But, again, all this is not going to be cheap - so probably defeats the object of using bamboo in the first place ... ?

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Many thanks
For infos
Pcb curved with something like FR4 material(below Cu).
Not flex pcb with plastic/vinyl/mica below Cu.
Regards
Tiro

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Many thanks
For infos
Pcb curved with something like FR4 material(below Cu).
Not flex pcb with plastic/vinyl/mica below Cu.
Regards
Tiro

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Sorry - I have no idea what that is supposed to mean!!

 

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Perhaps what you really need is a flexible microprocessor:

 

http://www.eenewseurope.com/news...

 

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awneil wrote:
But, again, all this is not going to be cheap - so probably defeats the object of using bamboo in the first place ... ?

 

Exactly - if the idea is low cost. Even assuming a hand built PCB, it introduces so many restrictions. By comparison, wood working is a simple skill that could be done by anyone.  A key question is what is the diameter of the bamboo?

 

However, an application occurred to me where a "curved" PCB might be useful (I want to fit a bunch of RGB leds inside a cylinder). To some approximation, a circle is just a polygon. So perhaps a set of PCB strips connected together would be ok. A circular end piece could hold the strips and provide additional space.

 

 

Of course, an alternative is a set of circular PCBs with board to board connections.

Bob.

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@donotdespisethesnake - thank you; that is exactly what I was trying to say in #11 #24, but couldn't find an illustration.

 

I think it's also what Scroungre was suggesting in #22 & #26

 

an alternative is a set of circular PCBs with board to board connections

Yes - good one!

 

Something like this:

Image result for stacked circular PCBs

 

I also just found this - illustrating using flexi PCB to join flat PCB panels at "interesting" angles:

 

Image result for stacked circular PCBs

 

Image result for stacked circular PCBs

 

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This reminds me that some LED light bulbs use the polygon method.

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El Tangas wrote:
some LED light bulbs use the polygon method.

And I think you'll find that they have flexi PCBs joining the rigid flat sections together ...

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Do you guys not recognize a troll when you see one?

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I don't think he is a troll. English is far from being a strength of his. Other threads have been equally difficult to follow but appear legitimate.

 

Moderator

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Build the box out of FR4? There are some great ideas here http://hackaday.com/2015/06/03/h... including this brilliant design

 

 

It might look like a render but it is a real working clock.

Bob.

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It might look like a render but it is a real working clock.

 

however that isn't flexible it is built that shape.

 

David 

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DAFlippers wrote:
however that isn't flexible it is built that shape.

 

No shit.

Bob.

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Wanna bet there's polygon PCBs in there and the LEDs just get diffused?  S.

 

PS - Or just hang out on wires.

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This Southwest Public Safety lightbar is a pretty common model.

One of the greatest dangers in running lights and siren is intersection safety.

In the olden days, with rotating lights, the light would sweep through ALL angles between two vehicles approaching an intersection.

Current day LED lightbars have a rather limited dispersion pattern.

Many lightbars mount a mini-strip of leds at a 45' angle in the corners of the lightbar.

 

This SWPS lighbar uses a curved PCB in order to have some LEDs mounted at a wide range of angles to improved overall operational safety.

 

There are clearly some design tricks to using curved PCBs, particularly in how one orients the parts, (on this PCB, for example, one would mount a rectangular SMD component "vertically", so as to minimize the arc across the length of the component).

 

When I prototyped one of these, (not for this company, BTW), I ended up going with a bunch of identical, thin vertically mounted PCBs, similar to the polygon image provided by DoNotDespiseTheSnake, above.

 

Curved PCBs were both expensive for the board, and problematic for some assemblers.

 

JC

Edit: Typo

 

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 27, 2017 - 10:09 PM
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Looks like the take-out container last night's curry came in.

 

"Experience is what enables you to recognise a mistake the second time you make it."

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not unicorns."

"Fast.  Cheap.  Good.  Pick two."

"Read a lot.  Write a lot."

"We see a lot of arses on handlebars around here." - [J Ekdahl]

 

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joeymorin wrote:

Looks like the take-out container last night's curry came in.

 

No doubt that's it.  Notice Doc put some Phillips head sheet metal screws around the flange to keep the lid from blowing off in a strong wind.

Last Edited: Thu. Apr 27, 2017 - 10:09 PM
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Hai All

At least I could get bend 90 degrees or 1/4 quadnrant of cicle.with FR4 or common pcb plate.
Regards
Tiro.

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tiro2016 wrote:

...At least I could get bend 90 degrees or 1/4 quadnrant of cicle.with FR4 or common pcb plate.

 

No you can't: the board will snap in half.

 

If 90 degrees will suffice why not make 2 PCBs and join them at right angles using 0.1" header strip?

 

pragmatic - dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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tiro2016 wrote:

...At least I could get bend 90 degrees or 1/4 quadnrant of cicle.with FR4 or common pcb plate.

Brian Fairchild wrote:
No you can't: the board will snap in half.

I think he's probably referring to the techniques linked from #41:

 

http://hackaday.com/2015/06/03/h...

 

ie, fabricating a 90-degree joint from two separate pieces of FR4 ?

 

This, of course, is just a special case of the polygon of #11,22,24,26,35,37,45

 

 

This reply has been marked as the solution. 
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http://www.goldmine-elec-product...

Could bend,maybe ?

Tiro

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Tiro, your link doesn't work. Can you re-paste it?

Anyways, I gather you're referring to the very thin (0.25mm) copper clad board. I'd say that would bend. Problem solved.

For our U.S friends, 0.25mm is around 10thou.

 

Last Edited: Sat. Apr 29, 2017 - 12:47 PM
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They really are thin! (I searched in the Electronic Goldmine site with "thin copper clad")

Probably, if you fix them to a curved mold (like a pipe) and then heat in an oven for a while (experimentation needed for time and temperature) they will keep the shape afterwards.

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Will looked,needed 0.5x0.5 m.

Regards
Tiro