ATtiny417 / ATtiny814 / ATtiny816 / ATtiny817

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http://www.atmel.com/images/atme...

 

Updated link to datasheet 21 Nov 2016

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Last Edited: Mon. Nov 21, 2016 - 07:13 AM
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Very interesting.

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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Looks like the tiny is not so tiny with these new devices.

Even seems to have some xmega type features.

Well, back to the datasheet...

 

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Hmmm, no external high-speed crystal option. Only 16/20MHz internal RC oscillator or external clock.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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...and not a sniff of them being available.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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At least it's a 5V part :)

 

First a tiny was a AVR without USART.

then it was one without HW mul.

so what now?  (it looks for me like this is a mega!)

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So we have a new?? programming and debug interface UPDI. Smells like DW.

– Single pin Unified Program Debug Interface (UPDI)

A better internal clock.

Fusible 16/20MHz low power internal RC oscillator with:

– ±3% accuracy over full temp and voltage range

– ±1.5% drift over limited temp and full voltage range

 A DAC finally even if only 8 bits.

8-bit Digital to Analog Converter (DAC

Custom logic

Configurable Custom Logic (CCL) with two programmable Lookup Tables (LUT)

Event system "EVSYS - Event System " and more goodies

 

I vote that the Atchip/Micromel sales department issues a development board to each one of us who posted on this thread just like what Atmel used to do when it used to have a "soul". devil

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 07:36 AM
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Are there any target price?

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sparrow2 wrote:

Are there any target price?

 

Price? Let's start with availability first! By the time they hit the disti's shelves there'll have been a couple of price rises in the meantime.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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Or any availability date?
Edit: Damn, too late

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 08:17 AM
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Svuppe wrote:

Or any availability date?

 

Atmel don't have a good track record when it comes to availability once a datasheet appears.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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How about Microchip?

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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No price indications, and code size is a little small.

Will this fix problems of compete with present "Capable 8 bit" price-leaders of SiLabs, ST, Nuvoton etc ?

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valusoft wrote:

How about Microchip?

 

Seem to be much better.

 

I was idly looking at 32-bit chips the other weeks on Farnell/Element 14 and spotted that they had 100 of each of a PIC32 variant called the MM range which was new to me and when I looked it had only been announced a few weeks earlier.

'This forum helps those who help themselves.'

 

pragmatic  adjective dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical consideration.

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code size is a little small

It is a Tiny.... looks very capable little beast.

 

David 

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 12:04 PM
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I have the same opinion. HW multiplier = Mega. Why call it Tiny?
 

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I scrolled thru the datasheet... can someone remind me if it has 16 regs or 32 regs? (if its a 16 reg cpu, some compilers dont work... bummer)

 

Imagecraft compiler user

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js wrote:
I vote that the Atchip/Micromel sales department issues a development board to each one of us who posted on this thread just like what Atmel used to do when it used to have a "soul". devil

+1  :)

ɴᴇᴛɪᴢᴇᴎ

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Since it has LPM it must be 32

 

And where should the MUL result be placed?

 

But I guess that it could be a cut and paste error

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What is this "Unified Program and Debug Interface"? Is it a new debug interface? At least it seems to be documented.

 

Edit: Event system, advanced timers, programmable logic, DAC, ADC with accumulation feature, HW multiplier... this will not come cheap, that's for sure.

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 12:50 PM
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sparrow2 wrote:
And where should the MUL result be placed?

bobgardner wrote:
I scrolled thru the datasheet... can someone remind me if it has 16 regs or 32 regs?

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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I could use an t814 now! 

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Seems like a Tiny in pinout only...

David (aka frog_jr)

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I better check that my address is correct

 

By now, Oscar must have quite a stack of things shipped to me in Illinois.

274,207,281-1 The largest known Mersenne Prime

Measure twice, cry, go back to the hardware store

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 02:49 PM
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Lee, you know you can click in the corner of your inserted images and reduce their size, right?

 

ki0bk wrote:
I could use an t814 now!

Me too!

ɴᴇᴛɪᴢᴇᴎ

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netizen wrote:
Lee, you know you can click in the corner of your inserted images and reduce their size, right?

AFAIK at least on my Firefox, they size to the width of the pane as you are observing it.  So no real need to reduce when cutting/pasting PDF fragments as they "auto size", right?

 

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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theusch wrote:
on my Firefox, they size to the width of the pane as you are observing it.

That's exactly the problem I have with it:

 

 

I like some consistency in font sizes, but perhaps it's just me… :-)

ɴᴇᴛɪᴢᴇᴎ

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netizen wrote:
I like some consistency in font sizes, but perhaps it's just me… :-)

It is just you.

 

After a quick think, I'll opine that when posting a fragment of whatever -- datasheet, schematic, ... -- sizing to fit the width allows max magnification according to how the >>viewer<< has set the browser pane size. 

 

Now, if I pull a bigger chunk of datasheet indeed I'll often change the PDF viewer zoom setting before taking the Snapshot.

 

In one sense, it >>is<< consistency in font sizes as that is how I view my PDFs Fit to Width.  So blame Firefox and Foxit.

 

Also, did you ever think that I might have been trying to make a point about "scrolling through the datasheet"?  Besides the piece I quoted, letting the PDF viewer search for "32 general" gives hits; "16 general"/"16 reg" does not.  In the time it took to compose the forum query when "scrolling through the datasheet" several searches could have been done.

 

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

Last Edited: Fri. Sep 23, 2016 - 07:26 PM
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ront1234 wrote:
Even seems to have some xmega type features.

...

Features

• CPU

...

– Two-level interrupt controller

Similar to the 3 levels for an XMEGA PMIC.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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El Tangas wrote:
Why call it Tiny?
Comes in SOIC.

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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theusch wrote:
After a quick think, I'll opine that when posting a fragment of whatever -- datasheet, schematic, ... -- sizing to fit the width allows max magnification according to how the >>viewer<< has set the browser pane size.

Nonsense! Viewers don't set their browser pane width to magnify your images. If they enlarge it it's to view more text, and the more they do the less text from your image they'll see… On the contrary, if they reduce their pane, a reduced image will still adapt and fit its width nicely. :-)

 

theusch wrote:
Now, if I pull a bigger chunk of datasheet indeed I'll often change the PDF viewer zoom setting before taking the Snapshot.

In one sense, it >>is<< consistency in font sizes as that is how I view my PDFs Fit to Width.

You're consistent with yourself, I'll gladly give you that. :-)

But font size consistency is another matter altogether. Look at the above screenshot: when you cite two pieces of the same datasheet they come up with vastly different font sizes, respectively ~3 and ~5 times bigger than the forum font (on my setting). Your PDF fit-to-width is based on a constant page width, thus it yields consistent font size; Your excerpts are not. If you really liked the former, you'd do as I suggested.

 

Anyway, I've noticed that several times so I thought I'd seize this opportunity to ask you about it. After all, we're just feeding a thread that deserves a little flamish icon…

Consider the matter closed. :-)

ɴᴇᴛɪᴢᴇᴎ

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interesting  device..

 

only annoying thing is the lack of DIP options... DIP is ideal for testing (breadboard) and low volume
 

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Indeed for breadboard though the SMT-to-DIP adaptors are common.

For testing some prefer protoboard (ground plane, thin, cut to fit a box)

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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Provided it has leads, I'll still manage to hand solder it. My problem is qfn and bga angry

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I scrolled thru the datasheet... can someone remind me if it has 16 regs or 32 regs?

The Ostrayn version of the data sheet shows 

Did you download the summary or the full version?

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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plouf wrote:

interesting  device..

only annoying thing is the lack of DIP options... DIP is ideal for testing (breadboard) and low volume

 

No-DIP is simply a sign of the times.

For testing, use the low cost evals, and for low volume, SOIC is fine - you can even wave solder SOIC14N

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With all those nice new features (and no DIP), they should have called it XTiny laugh

 

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Some of my code that can't run on these chips :(

 

You can't make pointers to registers! so loading registers can't be done with general routines.   

 

On the good side now there are 3 pointers to flash, but here  they didn't dare to remove the LPM instruction with a start at $0000 where a LD will start in $8000  

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And the comments about the LPM instruction don't make sense to me!

 

it take 2 clk but have the comment (1)  that say add one cycle if it use NVM!!!!! does this mean that LPM is the same as LD nn,Z with last bit flipped (or perhaps as a don't care) , if not it should just say 3 clk.

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sparrow2 wrote:

Some of my code that can't run on these chips :(

 

You can't make pointers to registers! so loading registers can't be done with general routines.   

 

On the good side now there are 3 pointers to flash, but here  they didn't dare to remove the LPM instruction with a start at $0000 where a LD will start in $8000  

 

Yeah, why make a unified memory but remove access to the register file? I never liked the registers mapped to 0x0000, but they could have put them somewhere in the I/O region. And you're right, with this arrangement, LPM and LD become kind of redundant...

 

And even though the memory seems unified, it's not possible to execute code from ram or eeprom (I think, from skimming through the datasheet).

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What do virtual ports a,b,c do?

Imagecraft compiler user

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What do virtual ports a,b,c do?

I'm guessing that like the Xmega chips you can move some ports into the lower I/O space so that shorter op codes can be used (ie IN and OUT rather that LDS/STS)

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I had a quick look at the release notes for AS7-10006 but no mention yet of these chips.

 

I guess we will need to wait for the latest (and bug free of course) version of AS7 before we can even have a look at anything. We should be graced with an update "momentarily" as the last release was in June?

 

hmmm will it still be AS7 or some other weird version of MPLAB with the Atmel toolchain bolted on?? devil

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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js wrote:

I had a quick look at the release notes for AS7-10006 but no mention yet of these chips.

 

I guess we will need to wait for the latest (and bug free of course) version of AS7 before we can even have a look at anything. We should be graced with an update "momentarily" as the last release was in June?

 

hmmm will it still be AS7 or some other weird version of MPLAB with the Atmel toolchain bolted on?? devil

 

I think they just need to update the ATtiny_dfp device pack.

I just checked in the device pack manager for updates but none yet.

 

 

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It's sad but I guess I know why.

It happend first time for Xmega's , and a good guess is that it gave problems with the DMA controller if the reg. also was on the addr buss.

But this chip don't have a DMA controller so here I don't see a problem , (and even if they had to add one clk it would have been nice, now you can't load a reg without it's absolute name sad sad). 

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Appears that Atmel Packs has been updated for tiny817 and such :

Atmel Packs

http://packs.download.atmel.com/

 

"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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I see Digikey show stocks of the XMINI and ATTINY817-XPRO-ND, but still no chip lead times or prices...

 

http://www.digikey.com/product-d...

 

No data on the XMINI - anyone know how  XMINI/XPRO  differ in Debug support chip and features ?

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"Dare to be naïve." - Buckminster Fuller

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My idea from #7 http://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... (last paragraph) is still a pretty good one for me.cheeky

 

After all WE are providing free support.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

Last Edited: Mon. Oct 31, 2016 - 04:43 AM
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I vote that the Atchip/Micromel sales department issues a development board to each one of us who posted on this thread just like what Atmel used to do when it used to have a "soul"

Perhaps the soul-less are listening...

 

-JoFreak

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js wrote:

I vote that the Atchip/Micromel sales department issues a development board to each one of us who posted on this thread just like what Atmel used to do when it used to have a "soul". devil

 

js wrote:

My idea from #7 http://www.avrfreaks.net/comment... (last paragraph) is still a pretty good one for me.cheeky

 

After all WE are providing free support.

 

That's an excellent idea. I happen to have a box of 35 Tiny817 Xplained Minis heading my direction, and will distribute to those already active in this thread (~20 people). For the rest of the kits, any constructive comments about the tiny817 will be awarded. 

 

Everyone already in the thread, please PM me your shipping address and I will send out the kits ASAP. For new posts I will PM you and ask for your address.

 

 

PS: I'm not sales, so please don't treat me as such (I have a soul) :P

 

 

Last Edited: Tue. Nov 1, 2016 - 02:03 PM
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Rats! The one thread I kept my nebby beak out of :-(

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clawson wrote:

Rats! The one thread I kept my nebby beak out of :-(

LOL -- I couldn't remember so had to search the thread.  But I poked in there.  ;)

 

 

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Perhaps we should make a plan over different TUT's, to get this up running.

Compared to other AVR's it's kind of a oddball. (a little from everywhere)

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clawson wrote:

Rats! The one thread I kept my nebby beak out of :-(

 

I think there is a special clause that says that moderators will get one - at least there is now :)

 

Send me a PM with your address

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OK PM sent however I'm not sure if AS7 supports the chip/board yet?

 

Oh dear I just realised I have to use AS7......... devil

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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Oh, it does support it. Don't worry about that. :-)

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This chip looks great on paper and I'm looking forward to play with it. PM sent smiley

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Oh, it does support it

I see that build 1118 supports it??

Atmel Studio 7.0.1188

The following changes are done in Atmel Studio 7.0.1188:

• Added support for new AVR8X architecture

I have a few versions behind on my laptop (build 934) , I'll wait until the packs issue has been fixed before updating.

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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I am waiting until hell freezes over... devil

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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It did this night... 

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

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Ross it's all about global WARMING not cooling like they used to tell us 40 years or so ago.

 

So how do you plan to use your brand new ATTINY817-mini? I guess you can wait until BASCOM adds support for it.

Anyway AS7 is safely confined to my laptop inside a Faraday cage and 8" concrete bunker, surely it can't be causing much trouble. cheeky

John Samperi

Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.

www.ampertronics.com.au

* Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly

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@John. I might just have to bring my caravan up your way and inspect your bunker. Remember that 40 years ago I was working at the Bureau and designing/making drifting buoys to measure sea temps that helped develop all of those predictions. So blame me if you must! cheeky

 

@Morten. I love that graph and have screen captured that image for future use. Excellent!

 

Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia

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valusoft wrote:
I am waiting until hell freezes over...
js wrote:
Ross it's all about global WARMING not cooling like they used to tell us 40 years or so ago.

As with nearly all topics on AVRfreaks, this one has already been brought up, discussed, and consensus reached.  In this case, Hell has already frozen over...

http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/t...

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

I've never met a pig I didn't like, as long as you have some salt and pepper.

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Some questions about these chips:

1 does the rjmp/rcall reach all 8k as normal 8 k devices?

2 I'm still not sure if the 32 registers are memory mapped.

this indicate they are:

 

 

 

And this they aren't

 

billed2

 

 

But like always a lot of guessing when you read the datasheet's, nothing seems to have improved there.

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sparrow2 wrote:

2 I'm still not sure if the 32 registers are memory mapped.

I say they are not:

Looking at the peripheral module address map (section 7.1 in the datasheet), VPORTA/B/C and other stuff are placed from address 0 onwards.

And to my delight, I see that they have also added some general purpose I/O registers. A feature I use quite often in the XMega line. Directly addressable single-bit values for status flags or similar.

 

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I'm quite sure the registers aren't memory mapped. Right after fig. 9-4, it says:

 

The register file is located in a separate address space, so the registers are not accessible as data memory.

To me, this means they are outside the unified address space, and therefore cannot be accessed with memory instructions sad

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Does anyone know about the new program/debug interface  for these, UPDI (that I take is similar, but not quite equal to PDI)?

The Xplained Mini boards have their own debugger, but I am thinking a little further ahead to where I may start to use these new Tinys in my own circuits. Will existing programmers/debuggers be updated to support the UPDI?

I currently have a JTAGICE3, but as that is now superseded by Atmel-ICE I fear that I am out of luck.

 

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Svuppe wrote:

Does anyone know about the new program/debug interface  for these, UPDI (that I take is similar, but not quite equal to PDI)?

The Xplained Mini boards have their own debugger, but I am thinking a little further ahead to where I may start to use these new Tinys in my own circuits. Will existing programmers/debuggers be updated to support the UPDI?

I currently have a JTAGICE3, but as that is now superseded by Atmel-ICE I fear that I am out of luck.

 

 

Since UPDI seems to be fully documented, I was thinking someone could program, let's say, an arduino nano to translate stk500 to UPDI and act as programmer. Then we could use avrdude to program these new chips.

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শূন্য  - The ZeRo

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The interface is defined in the datasheet (chapter 34). The tool support plan is STK600 and all current generations. That includes Power Debugger, Atmel-ICE, mEDBG, EDBG and JTAGICE3 (so you're in luck with that one). Pinout in the debugger user guides are still on the pending list smiley

:: Morten

 

(yes, I work for Atmel, yes, I do this in my spare time, now stop sending PMs)

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Lots of "interesting" questions.  Has anyone yet determined how many bytes are in the USERROW?  Hint:  It is one extra EEPROM page.  Indirect digging finds it in I/O space at 0x1300.  Translate this:

7. The writable area has a size of one EEPROM page, byte, and it is only possible to write User Row
data to the first 32 byte addresses of the RAM. Addressing outside this memory range will result in
a non executed write. The data will map 1:1 with the User Row space, when the data is copied into
the User Row upon completion of the Programming sequence
 

 

Aha!  Found it with a search for "page size"; 32B: